rog
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Post by rog on Dec 15, 2018 23:41:09 GMT -5
I may have figured out what the Giants are doing. Of course, one could say so far they're doing nothing. But that kind of fits with my theory.
The Giants are building from the bottom up.
That's what Farhan did in LA, at least to an extent. Of course he already had Clayton Kershaw and Kenley Jansen. But the Giants have Buster Posey and Madison Bumgarner (assuming Madison is still a star).
But Farhan helped build a team that had some good players, a lot of versatile players, and a lot of depth. When injuries hit, they could withstand them because of the depth and versatility.
The Giants had a lot of weaknesses last season, but one of them was certainly depth. That's what Farhan has attempted to do thus far -- build depth. He's done so in a way that, if successful, will help the Giants become younger. As he did with the Dodgers, he's picked up unproven players in the hope that they will prove themselves.
More than anything else, the Giants need outfielders. Welcome Mike Gerber and Drew Ferguson. They need trading material. Welcome Travis Bergen, who might provide the depth to allow the Giants to trade Will Smith or Tony Watson. I've mentioned that I'm not sold on the two new outfielders, but I'm sold on Farhan, so for now, let's give him the benefit of the doubt. The biggest service he gave the Dodgers was to pick up guys no one else was sold on, and turn them into players who were versatile and more than serviceable.
So the Giants are builiding depth, starting from the bottom up. Of course, as possibly the worst team in the NL West, the Giants need to build bottom to top, top to bottom, left to right, right to left, inside out, outside in, and around and around they go. But you gotta start somewhere, and with the trade market a little slow to develop and the Giants likely having to wait it out for free agents, they've started at the bottom.
Not too sexy, but hopefully she can cook.
Meanwhile, the Giants need right-handed hitters, particularly outfielders. Steven Duggar, who bats left-handed, is the only outfielder who would be considered a starter. The Giants need right-handed hitters to complement Duggar, and are said to be looking at Toronto's Kevin Pillar, a superb defender with at least a bit of pop. Maybe Duggar becomes a platoon player who adds more defensive prowess to the expanses of right field, the position he's played most in the minors.
So the Giants need right-handed hitting outfielders. Since Joe Panik and Brandon Crawford hit right-handers best, and Alen Hanson and Pablo Sandoval are essentially left-handed hitters due to platoon split difficulties, they need at least one more righth-handed hitting infielder. A right-handed hitting catcher makes sense because sitting Brandon Belt to move Buster to first base on occasion makes the most sense against southpaws.
A team can always use depth in the bullpen, but the pen seems less of a problem than pretty much the rest of the field. For the rotation, I favor Anibal Sanchez and Trevor Cahill. Each could be available on a short-term contract at a reasonable cost, and Cahill is still 30.
The Giants have some money to spend this winter. They have more holes than a two-sided golf course. Maybe they can spread the money around like rain on a parched fairway and come up with a few fingerfuls of players.
The Giants have far to go. Maybe they have the right Far to handle it.
From the bottom up.
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sfgdood
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stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
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Post by sfgdood on Dec 16, 2018 1:18:32 GMT -5
I just can't understand why the Giants REFUSE to add power
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rog
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Post by rog on Dec 16, 2018 12:10:03 GMT -5
You know, in a way that's the $64 million question. The Giants are one of the worst hitting teams in the majors, and easily their biggest weakness is that their power has the punies. So why not just go out and get some?
The most powerful reason is that power simply doesn't play well at AT&T, where the Giants themselves must play well. The Giants' most powerful hitter over the past several years is Brandon Belt. On the road, Belt has been a decent power hitter. He has hit 70 homers in 1622 at bats. Pro-rate that over the 576 at bats Francisco Lindor had last season, and Brandon would hit 25 homers. That would have tied him with Cody Bellinger last season, and Cody has nice power.
But at home Belt has only 42 homers in 1514 at bats. That would translate into only 15 homers. If you were a free agent power hitter playing for your reputation and a future contract, would you rather hit 100 homers over say three years, or 60? Reputation or contract, that's a HUGE difference.
This is very, very modest, but the Giants DID add some potential power this week. In the minor league phase, they drafted utility infielder Peter Maris, who not only has a powerful surname, but posted a .508 SLG on just a .277 batting average last season. Better perhaps, much of that power came from doubles and triples, which are more likely to play well at AT&T. Spread over 500 at bats, Maris' totals would have been 34 doubles, 8 triples and 22 homers. Remember back in 2015 when Brandon Crawford has his career year at the plate. Brandon his 33 doubles, 4 triples and 21 homers.
Maris is another 25-year-old who may never see the light of day. Last season was by far his best power year. He hasn't been that powerful over his career. But he's a very low-risk acquisition who might eventually take the bench spot held down right now by the modest power of Pablo Sandoval or Alen Hanson.
If we think the odds of a Rule 5 Draft player chosen in the major league portion of the draft is slim, thin how slim it is for a guy chosen in the minor league portion.
Belt isn't a big power hitter, but he would be acceptable if he didn't play half his games at AT&T.
So why would a free agent power hitter come to SF? The only answer I can think of is that he loves San Francisco and the Giants offer him $100 million when he best offer elsewhere is $75 million.
Which means the Giants have to trade for power. Ideally, LOTS of power. But whom do they have to deal? Well, Bumgarner, but Madison is coming off two sub-par (for him) years, and he's got only one year left on his contract. At this point he's a RENTAL player. How much less does it cost to rent? When we think of Madison, we think of a pitcher who has at least twice as much trade value as he has. Likely three or four times as much.
Which he had, by the way, after the 2016 season, the first where those who look below the surface could see tiny cracks developing. But who in their right mind would have thought to trade Madison after the Giants had played so well in early 2016 and had come within a slim margin of forcing the Cubs to a fifth and deciding game? With a little more luck, the Giants could have gone at least to the NL Championship Series.
How about trading Belt? The Giants are said to be quite open to the possibility, but if they trade him, they trade arguably their best defensive player and definitely their second-best power hitter. Worse, the timing is off. Brandon is coming off a down season, has concussion concerns, and there are a glut of first basemen around. Most of the contending teams already have their first baseman, and Brandon himself can block 10 teams. That leaves a tiny window of opportunity, if one exists at all.
Evan Longoria? You bet. But he's the Giants BEST power hitter, and even then the Giants would likely have to need to eat a pretty fair amount of salary. They might pick up some outfield power, but incrementally, how much would that gain them over the loss of power at the hot corner?
Maybe trade Dereck Rodriguez, but that one could backfire, and his trade value is far from totally proven. That's one of the reasons I would be looking for short-contract pitching help though. But at least the Giants came out swinging. No swing, no power.
Ironically, if the Giants wanted him, they could likely have Adam Duvall back pretty cheaply. Aided by a small home park, Adam has shown good power since leaving the Giants, and he's a surprisingly good left fielder. Unfortunately Adam has a .230 batting average and, worse, a .291 on base percentage. But he's hit 79 homers over the past three seasons, and if the Giants truly want power, he would be affordable. Adam just turned 30.
Let me ask our other posters: Got any powerful answers to Randy's question?
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Bottoms Up
Dec 16, 2018 12:20:13 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Dec 16, 2018 12:20:13 GMT -5
Rog- More than anything else, the Giants need outfielders. Welcome Mike Gerber and Drew Ferguson. They need trading material. Welcome Travis Bergen, who might provide the depth to allow the Giants to trade Will Smith or Tony Watson.
Boagie- Thank God! Or as you might say "Thank Zaidi!" At the end of last season I was hoping they'd pick up Mike Gerber, Drew Ferguson and Travis Bergen. I knew if we got those guys everything would be right in the world.
But seriously though, we dont need the depth players, we need starters. We have depth. Duggar is a perfectly good backup outfielder, Slater is decent enough. Pablo and Hanson provide solid depth in the infield. What we need is a starting outfield and starting pitching. Adding Gerber, Ferguson and Bergen have given us more depth into the minor leagues, but it hasn't addressed the real issues.
We need less Denard Spans, Austin Jacksons and more players that can start every game and actually catch the ball. We need to upgrade the corner outfield spots with players that can actually hit the ball over an infielders head. We need to stop paying out 20 million a year to pitchers (Samardjiza) that have a long career of getting shelled early and often. Instead we need to get young pitchers that actually know how to use the arm that they've been blessed with. We need to stop paying ridiculous amounts to closers (Melancon) that look rattled when a runner gets on. Instead we need a closer with icy veins.
I dont think the Giants are that far from being good again. We just need a few outfielders and a starting pitcher. We have money to spend, until those moves start happening I won't be jumping with joy about some no namers that will probably have very little impact.
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rog
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Post by rog on Dec 16, 2018 13:35:57 GMT -5
You're dead on about the Giants needing starting outfielders, not just bench depth. Sometimes the right depth though can provide a platoon solution when nothing better is available, and it certainly helps when the multitude of injuries strikes most teams.
Based on the little I know, I like Gerber's potential and am not sold on either Gerber or Ferguson. But I like that the Giants stepped out on all three.
I'm interested in Avisail Garcia, who at 27 should be early in his prime. He's a guy who could go either way, but he looks to have the potential to surprise.
I like that while the Giants are working on deals that will have more importance for us, they're also trying to build up the edges. Farhan has a reputation for finding little treasures.
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Dec 16, 2018 14:36:10 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Dec 16, 2018 14:36:10 GMT -5
We have the edges, we need the center (at least in the outfield and starting pitching department.) What I hate more than anything is when a GM addresses needs we dont need, just so he can report back to the media and fan base that he's doing something. Anyone on the 40 man roster that doesn't belong there limits our flexibility, and I'm not sure any of the pickups thus far actually belong there. Plus, it might be minimal, but these players cost money.
As far as hidden treasures go, Sabean and his crew were pretty darned good at finding those as well, probably better than Zaidi could ever hope to be. Do we forget about Torres, Uribe, Kontos, Blanco and Vogey? How about Holland last season? Not to mention all the young talent that they drafted and developed that weren't on other team's radars. How about trades that netted us Pence, Melky Scutaro and Sanchez? It's only when Sabean took a step back that everything started falling apart. So to act like Zaidi is this great baseball mind that will revolutionize baseball in San Francisco is a contradiction to reality. If Zaidi is indeed a genius like you claim and makes brilliant moves that will make the Giants a success yet again, then he'll only be doing what has been done by Sabean over the past two plus decades.
This isn't the Oakland A's. Zaidi cant make "big bang for your buck" moves and be considered in anywhere near the same category as Sabean. I know you and the media will love him, but I won't, and I know Randy won't. He needs to bring a championship to San Francisco or he's a failure. He's got what, 5 years? Let's see if he can do it.
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rog
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Post by rog on Dec 17, 2018 10:58:39 GMT -5
I think it's rather poor, Boagie, that you seemed to imply that Farhan made minor moves to distract from not making a major one. More than unlikely that is the case.
You make a good point about Brian Sabean. The Giants built their World Series Championships on Lincecum, Bumgarner and Posey, but Brian did make some very nice pickups along the way. The Giants won their three championships on some combination of luck and chemistry.
In none of the three seasons did they have the best talent. Their highest total of regular season wins was 94 in 2012, and last season alone six teams -- including, believe it or not, the A's -- had more wins than that. They didn't make the playoffs in either of the other two seasons in their five-year reign, playing only .500 ball in the two combined years.
Maybe a good way to describe those five years was that the Giants weren't a great team, but they certainly got great results.
As for today, the feeling around baseball -- as it is with us -- is that the Giants have a long, long way to go. Their chances in 2020 have a better shot that this season, since Johnny Cueto will be returning. On the other hand, the Giants could be without Madison Bumgarner. If they do re-sign him, he will likely add $22 million or more to the $132 million they already have committed in 2020, giving them little payroll leeway. They'll likely add a couple of free agents this winter who will be under contact then, raising their committed dollars if they re-sign Madison to perhaps $160 or even $170 million.
Farhan is said to be focusing on short-term free agent contracts this winter, which make sense. If the Giants were able to sign Bryce Harper and re-sign Madison, their 2020 commitment would likely grow to over $180 million.
I think you're overselling what I am convinced Farhan will accomplish, Boagie. I really like him, but there are no guarantees. He's got a very, very tough battle to fight. I spoke with my son yesterday for the first time since the Farhan signing, and asked him what they thought about the signing in LA. He told me they were pretty mad about it, which is what we want to hear. Randy wants to hear it both for the Giants and for the Dodgers.
As for your claim that Farhan will be a failure if he doesn't win a World Series in the next five years, you realized as soon as you said how ridiculous that was, right? It took Brian Sabean 14 years to do so, and he was the first Giants GM to accomplish the feat in 56 years.
You guys seem to overreact to the things I say. I have made it clear that I think Farhan is very good, but the Giants have a long way to go to get to where we want them to be. To see how much ground they need to make up, let's not forget that over the past two seasons combined, the Astros have won 67 more games than the Giants. The Dodgers have won 59 more.
Now, if the Giants turn it around -- which I believe they will in the next three or four seasons, maybe sooner -- they will do so in a different manner than Brian Sabean did. Brian is an ex-scout who was very slow to adapt to baseball's analytical changes. Farhan is seeking a balance between scouting and analytics, and two of his first moves were to change the Giants' directors of pro and amateur scouting.
As for his "big bang for the bucks" moves not being important, they were critical in Oakland and very important in LA. As we know, the A's have a small percentage of the Giants' salary budget. The Dodgers were at the opposite extreme, but Farhan helped them shed nearly $100 million in salary in order to dip below the luxury tax threshold last season.
Farhan moved around the edges in LA to acquire important players such as Max Muncy and Chris Taylor. He enabled the Dodgers to withstand more injuries the past few seasons than even the Giants have sustained. Like the Giants, the Dodgers suffered huge rotation losses last season. But the Dodgers weathered the storm by having Kershaw, Hill, Wood, Maeda, Ryu, Buehler, Stripling and Urias among their starters.
That's five good veterans and three really good youngsters. And the Dodgers also built depth and versatility in their everyday roster. The Giants' roster pales in comparison with that of the Dodgers, but hopefully that will change in the next three or four years to the point that the Giants are much closer.
Here is just one difficulty the Giants face in matching up with the Dodgers in the future. Removing the veterans Bumgarner, Cueto, Samardzija and Holland from the Giants, and Kershaw, Hill, Maeda, Ryu and Wood from the Dodgers, the Giants have a nucleus of Rodriguez, Suarez and Stratton for the future. Those guys posted ERA's of 2.81, 4.49 and 5.09 last season.
The Dodgers have Buehler, Stripling and Urias. That trio posted ERA's of 2.62, 3.02 and 0.00. Urias' zero came in only four innings, as he missed virtually the entire season. But Urias was by far the best prospect of the three, being ranked as high as baseball's #4 prospect at the age of 19.
Urias is still just 22, while Buehler and Stripling are 24 and 29. The three Giants are 26, 26 and 28.
The Giants have a lot of catching up to do. I am very confident that Farhan is the man to lead the way. The Dodgers fans are upset at losing him to the Giants, and that's a good thing.
But there are no guarantees.
Stop and think about it. How many great ideas have we come up with here? I've mentioned Anibal Sanchez and Trevor Cahill. I should strongly add Yusei Kikuchi. I've mentioned Avisail Garcia in the outfield. I've mentioned trading Bumgarner for Yankees prospects headed by outfielder Estevan Florial. I've mentioned Yankees prospects Jonathan Loaisiga (a former Giants pitching prospect) and outfielder Everson Pereira. With the exception of Kikuchi, none of those guys stack up as fortune changers.
But they might help turn around a franchise that has gone from three World Championships in five years to one of the worst teams in the majors the past two and a half seasons.
The challenge is formidable. What ideas do you guys have?
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Bottoms Up
Dec 17, 2018 11:57:31 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Dec 17, 2018 11:57:31 GMT -5
Shall we see how many of the players you mentioned were actually drafted under Colletti's tenure?
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Bottoms Up
Dec 17, 2018 14:44:39 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Dec 17, 2018 14:44:39 GMT -5
Rog- Stop and think about it. How many great ideas have we come up with here? I've mentioned Anibal Sanchez and Trevor Cahill
Boagie- I'd resign Holland before I'd take either one of them. And theres really no point in getting any of them until we have a solid rotation 1-4 before we fill the 5th spot with someone like Holland, Cahill or Sanchez. With the way the roster is set now I think it would be a better idea to just rotate some young guys through Sacramento to fill in the 5th spot until we find someone who sticks.
If and when the Giants put together a decent outfield then we can talk about signing a veteran starter.
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Dec 17, 2018 14:48:34 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Dec 17, 2018 14:48:34 GMT -5
Rog- I've mentioned Avisail Garcia in the outfield.
Boagie- That's something that was discussed last season, but great "idea?" on your part.
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rog
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Post by rog on Dec 18, 2018 3:36:24 GMT -5
Shall we see how many of the players you mentioned were actually drafted under Colletti's tenure? Rog -- For what it proves, sure. Technically, just one of the three (Stripling). For all practical purposes, two, since Ned signed Urias out of Mexico. I used the three pitchers to show the big advantage the Dodgers have over the Giants in young starters, not to show Farhan's prowess. I think sometimes we infer what wasn't implied. Farhan's biggest accomplishments with the Dodgers (although he did sign Buehler, apparently on one of his days off) were in picking up otherwise ignored players and using that to help him cut the Dodgers' payroll by nearly $100 million. If the Dodgers sign say Harper or Machado, Farhan's manuevers will save the Dodgers many, many millions. All but two (the Red Sox and Nationals) were successful in dipping below the salary cap in 2018, but no team came as far as the Dodgers to do so. Hey, I don't know for sure that Farhan will be successful any more than I knew when the Giants promoted Brian Sabean that Brian would be. I did know that my father, who passed away months before Brian was promoted, was looking forward to the event, believing Brian to be a very good baseball man. Thus I wasn't bothered by the Matt Williams trade. Now I'm making my own objective judgment of Farhan based on the information I have learned about him. That ranges from how well he is regarded in the industry to my son's just telling me that the Dodgers fans are upset by his leaving. And beyond. It is likely that I know more about Farhan than anyone here. That doesn't mean I'm going to be proven right about him, but it likely gives me a better chance than those who haven't learned as much on which to base their judgment. I don't believe Farhan is a miracle worker, and in the short run, the Giants need a bit of a miracle. A year ago they made a valiant and creative move to go from 64 wins to being competitive. It didn't work, but at the time I gave them credit for their creativity -- and still do. I didn't like the direction they went, but given the restrictions they faced, I was surprised they gave themselves as good an opportunity as they did. I'm hoping the Giants can be good by 2021 or 2022. They will be free of many of their onerous salaries by then. We can blame Bobby Evans for the Giants' current problems, and certainly he deserves some of the blame. But I don't think he made his moves without significant review from Brian. I am reminded of when the founder of a company I worked for stepped into the background of the everyday operations, entrusting them to his son. He allowed his son to make the key company decisions -- unless he felt the decision jeopardized the company. Unfortunately the Giants have made some decisions that have jeopardized their competitiveness. I think a good example of a good risk they took last winter compared to a bad risk was in trading for Andrew McCutchen on the one hand and trading for Evan Longoria on the other. Trading for Andrew was a short-term risk with limited downside. Trading for Evan was a long-term risk with considerably more downside. Both were creative moves to try to build a competitive team, but the Longoria move was more questionable because it exposed the Giants to much more risk. The Giants are said to be focusing on short-term contracts on the free agent market. That seems like a very good idea. It gives them a chance to become more competitive in 2019 and 2020 without heavily impacting them in 2021 and beyond. Hey, we're all impatient for them to get going this winter. They've made a half dozen moves or more, but they have all been minor moves (although hopefully with more than minor impact in some cases). I must ask again though, what are the moves they haven't made that we wish they had? Are those moves beneficial in the short run without heavily impacting the future? Are those moves doable? If we're going to criticize the Giants, shouldn't we know just what we're criticizing them for? Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4968/bottoms#ixzz5a1Mh2r5S
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rog
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Post by rog on Dec 18, 2018 3:37:40 GMT -5
I haven't studied the available free agent infielders. Anyone got ideas there? Any reasonable ideas for a trade or two?
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 18, 2018 11:40:31 GMT -5
I must ask again though, what are the moves they haven't made that we wish they had? Are those moves beneficial in the short run without heavily impacting the future? Are those moves doable?
If we're going to criticize the Giants, shouldn't we know just what we're criticizing them for?
***boly says***
I've stated my reasons for criticizing him.
I'll re state one of them.
PROVE to the team and the fans you actually HAVE a plan in place.
So far all we hear is rhetoric about Zaidi; what he's done, what he's saying and so forth.
As my father was wont to say; "S_ _ _ or get off the pot!"
So far, this clod has done neither.
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Bottoms Up
Dec 18, 2018 14:43:58 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Dec 18, 2018 14:43:58 GMT -5
Rog, for the final time, it's not that I have a problem with Zaidi, it's that I have a problem with the mainstream acting as if he's God's gift to baseball. I have more of a problem with the media's portrayal of sabermetrics in today's game. And quite honestly, I consider most of the media to be a joke.
Let's get one thing straight here, the bay area media is stupid. They never liked Sabean until he won a Championship, they bashed him any chance they could get. He got torn apart for the Pierzynski trade and the Matt Williams trade (until he proved smarter than they were.) A lot of them wanted Lincecum traded prior to 2010. Johan Santana for Tim was widely discussed, so was the trade to KC (I forget that player's name.) They hated Bonds. They hated Barry Zito and Jonathan Sanchez. The media knows very little about how to win a Championship, whereas Sabean has made an impressive resume of winning Championships with New York and San Francisco. And now the media is acting as if Zaidi is coming into a mess created by Sabean and the old farts that refused to change. That's not the case, no matter how much they've pushed that message down your gullible throat.
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rog
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Post by rog on Dec 18, 2018 17:15:02 GMT -5
Rog- I've mentioned Avisail Garcia in the outfield. Boagie- That's something that was discussed last season, but great "idea?" on your part. Rog -- No. I believe it was Boly's idea, and I'm still struggling with it back and forth. I think Avisail can hit, but he simply makes too many outs. He swings at over two out of every five pitches outside the strike zone. It appears he's also a below-average (although not horrible) right fielder, and at best an average base runner. I guess he's little more than an average player, although that would likely place him atop the Giants' outfielders. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4968/bottoms#ixzz5a4lbOtNJ
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rog
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Post by rog on Dec 18, 2018 17:17:04 GMT -5
I have a problem with the mainstream acting as if he's God's gift to baseball. Rog -- They don't. Where have you seen that? I think Farhan's baseball knowledge is well respected, and I think he's a person who gets along well with people, but I haven't seen that he's God's gift to baseball. I think most are somewhat like me -- encouraged but waiting to see how Farhan turns out. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4968/bottoms?page=1#ixzz5a4nlpLnU
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rog
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Post by rog on Dec 18, 2018 17:20:42 GMT -5
PROVE to the team and the fans you actually HAVE a plan in place. Rog -- Isn't it a bit premature to do so? He's done as much or more than most GM's this winter despite getting a very late start due to his hiring date. I think our impatience here is natural for all of us, but remember how impatient we were for the Giants to hire a GM, that we thought it very unlikely that they were waiting because they were interested in a GM from either of the two World Series teams? Clearly we were wrong about that, perhaps letting our impatience get in the way of more sound judgment. That may be the case in this instance as well. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4968/bottoms?page=1#ixzz5a4oKzXMr
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rog
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Post by rog on Dec 18, 2018 17:25:07 GMT -5
As my father was wont to say; "S_ _ _ or get off the pot!" So far, this clod has done neither. Rog -- Perhaps he's trying to overcome temporary constipation!!! I still think the broader and better approach is to take care of business so there will still be a business to take care of. Taking care of business involves making good decisions, not hurried ones. As John Wooden said, "Be quick, but don't hurry." Be quick, Farhan. We're waiting and getting more impatient by the day. But don't hurry and make a mistake just because we're impatient. Even though we get frustrated, we're in this for the long haul. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4968/bottoms?page=1#ixzz5a4pKVELZ
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sfgdood
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stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
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Post by sfgdood on Dec 18, 2018 20:06:27 GMT -5
1. it's never premature to have a plan. If I were Bear I wouldn't hire anyone who had no vision and no plan to get there. How can there be accountability otherwise?
2. The winter meetings have become a joke. It's more of a week long party now because no work actually gets done.
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rog
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Post by rog on Dec 19, 2018 7:03:55 GMT -5
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rog
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Post by rog on Dec 19, 2018 7:08:31 GMT -5
now the media is acting as if Zaidi is coming into a mess created by Sabean and the old farts that refused to change. That's not the case, no matter how much they've pushed that message down your gullible throat. Rog -- What exactly is wrong about that? Is the situation a mess? The feeling around baseball seems to be that it is. Was the mess created by Sabean and Bobby Evans? They were the ones in charge. Did they refuse to change? Compared to other organizations, yes. What exactly is wrong about their message? It seems to me that they have attempted to present the facts here. Who here disagrees with the facts? Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4968/bottoms?page=1#ixzz5a8Ag1trZ
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rog
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Post by rog on Dec 19, 2018 7:10:28 GMT -5
it's never premature to have a plan. If I were Bear I wouldn't hire anyone who had no vision and no plan to get there. How can there be accountability otherwise? Rog -- You are right on the money, Randy. In fact, the interview of the various candidates was structured so that the aspiring GM could present his plan. Farhan was allotted two hours to do so. The Giants were intrigued enough by his vision that the meeting lasted over six hours. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4968/bottoms?page=1#ixzz5a8BeghUx
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rog
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Post by rog on Dec 19, 2018 7:11:38 GMT -5
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rog
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Post by rog on Dec 19, 2018 7:12:21 GMT -5
You are criticizing Farhan's plan, Randy, but you don't really know what it is, do you? Why would you criticize something you don't know and understand?
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 19, 2018 11:19:23 GMT -5
No one knows what his plan is, Roger, because he hasn't done anything.
As I said in another thread, all we've heard is media rhetoric about his history and blah-blah-blah.
If he has a plan, what is it?
If he has a plan, when is he going to start to execute it?
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Dec 19, 2018 13:52:06 GMT -5
Either Rog has a problem with reading comprehension or he is trying to shift the debate...it should be evident that Fargeek has a plan by now but all we have seen thus far is diving into the rule 5 dumpster
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rog
New Member
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Post by rog on Dec 20, 2018 12:27:38 GMT -5
it should be evident that Fargeek has a plan by now but all we have seen thus far is diving into the rule 5 dumpster Rog -- Which free agents would you have had him sign that he's missed out on? How high would you have gone for those guys? Which trades would you be exploring? Not to be speaking literally how I feel about you, Randy, but paraphrasing your words above, it should be evident you have an intellect by now, but all we have seen thus far is diving into the criticism dumpster. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4968/bottoms#ixzz5aFJGfUnX
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rog
New Member
Posts: 3
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Post by rog on Dec 20, 2018 12:28:58 GMT -5
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Dec 20, 2018 12:46:18 GMT -5
it;s not up to us to devise a plan and name what players we want...we just want to see the plan of the peerson whose job it is to do this
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 20, 2018 13:50:26 GMT -5
Rog -- What SHOULD his plan be, Boly, and precisely what should he already have done to institute it?
***boly says***
roger, both Randy and I have answered your question multiple times.
Randy is clear; he wants a COMPLETE rebuild.
I'm more flexible in that I don't want to totally clean house, but we need to make some moves STARTING with dumping Jeffy one way or another.
Here is a quick SUMMARY of SOME of the things I've said.
I'm fine with Joe and Brandon up the middle.
I DON'T want to see Posey at 1B
We MUST acquire a RF. Period. End of discussion.
I'd move Tony Watson and Strickland in a heart beat for a bat.
And if that bat was good enough, Will Smith.
Problem is, then we have no closer.
Watson is NOT a closer.
And that's it for me, Rog. I will NOT repeat what I would do again.
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