rog
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Post by rog on Nov 23, 2018 22:47:49 GMT -5
Let's take two different scenarios and see which players we would trade: Obviously the two takes would be retooling and rebuilding. In each case, whom would you trade and how would you replace the traded players?
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rog
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Post by rog on Nov 23, 2018 22:48:55 GMT -5
Which free agents would you go after in each scenario? How high would you go?
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Post by Islandboagie on Nov 24, 2018 11:51:50 GMT -5
I would look at this offseason as a addition by subtraction scenario. I'd see if we can find buyers for Samardjiza and Melancon. I think both would be tradeable if we eat a significant part of their salaries. If not, just release both. I'd replace them with anyone that comes cheap. I realize it's an admission of a bad signing, but I believe that is why Zaidi was brought in, to clean up mistakes that were made with low cost replacements.
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Post by klaiggeb on Nov 24, 2018 17:46:58 GMT -5
Not a bad plan, boagie. Not a bad plan at all.
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rog
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Post by rog on Nov 24, 2018 21:31:56 GMT -5
If the Giants rebuild, I still see potential harm from releasing those guys: Both guys have been injured and thus have negligible trade value. If they can bounce back in 2019, they could have fairly significant trade value as early as the trade deadline.
If they retool, those guys could be an important part of that reloading. Not that I wouldn't trade them by any means, but I would hold onto them until they either show they're totally washed up, or they perform well enough that the Giants can either use them to win and/or get a decent return. IMO it would be crazy to just release them. What would we think if the Giants released them and they went on to play a season or two at a level approaching Pat Burrell in 2010?
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rog
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Post by rog on Nov 24, 2018 21:33:37 GMT -5
Realistically, addition by subtraction works only if the traded player(s) are clubhouse problems or are blocking significant talent. I don't think we've seen significant signs that either Jeff or Mark is a clubhouse problem, and the Giants simply don't have enough young talent for them to be blocking important players.
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Post by Islandboagie on Nov 25, 2018 12:51:18 GMT -5
Keeping Samardjiza and Melancon will again force Bochy to play these guys in situations that their contract warrants, to appease the people signing his pay checks. We saw this most recently with Span.
If we replace them with lesser contracts Bochy is free to play the roster as he sees fit. That's where the addition by subtraction comes in.
Thinking that somehow these guys will make a trade seem desirable at the trade deadline is not realistic. They suck and they continue to prove to be unreliable. Rebuilding is about getting some playing time for guys not neccesarily on the radar to see what we have, having Samardjiza and Melancon on the roster hinders that. Afterall, wasn't it Samardjiza's injury that allowed Rodriguez to get his shot? Did anyone even consider Rodriguez a factor before his call up?
The only redeeming value Samardjiza and Melancon have is their names are reminiscent of a player that was once good or decent. Other teams out there might not realize just how useless they are now. I realize it's not likely, but hell, someone took Span from us, anything is possible. I would definitely explore that possibility with these two.
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sfgdood
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stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
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Post by sfgdood on Nov 25, 2018 16:46:24 GMT -5
We've tried retooling...continuing that flawed strategy would only serve to set the rebuild back another year. Therefore, my strategy is this:
Who I would trade...
1. Definitely this offseason: Belt, Panik, Smardzija,
2. Would consider trading if possible (I mean all vets are in play for me, but specifically) Hanson, Williamson, Melancon, Longoria.
3. Definitely at or before the trade deadline: Bum, Cueto
4. Anyone else that would get big value.
Who I want back...
Young quality talent
FAs I would sign: Rule 5 fireballers or young power hitters
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sfgdood
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stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Nov 25, 2018 16:51:33 GMT -5
BTW...I don't feel the need to "replace" traded vets...2019 will be a full season tryout for our young players, including some we will get back in the trades
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rog
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Post by rog on Nov 26, 2018 21:44:36 GMT -5
Keeping Samardjiza and Melancon will again force Bochy to play these guys in situations that their contract warrants, to appease the people signing his pay checks. We saw this most recently with Span. Rog -- Boly is complaining that Zaidi is going to set the lineups, which I don't think will be the case. Nor do I think the Giants can force Bruce to play certain players in certain roles. Bruce is likely going to retire at the end of the 2019 season, so what leverage do they have over him? Samardzija didn't play much last season, and Melancon did very little closing. Span played as much as he did in 2017 because the Giants had no one to take his place. The Giants were able to trade Span -- by giving up arguably the #1 prospect and by taking on a contract that was worse than Denard's. I'm pretty sure you were delighted when the Giants traded Span, Boagie, but it was the worst move the Giants made last winter. See if Samardzija and Melancon are healthy and can rebuild some of their value. It's not as if the Giants are loaded with guys to take their places. If Samardzija and Melancon take a spot that otherwise might go to a younger pitcher, if that pitcher is good, he'll show it in AAA and get promoted. Don't give away two players who might turn out to have at least a little trading value. If the Giants release the two pitchers, they not only don't get anything in return, they don't clear any salary off the books. Seriously, just whom are Jeff and Mark getting in the way of? Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4923/which-players-trade#ixzz5Y1DGbcvi |
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rog
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Post by rog on Nov 26, 2018 21:48:31 GMT -5
Thinking that somehow these guys will make a trade seem desirable at the trade deadline is not realistic. Rog - EXPECTING it may not be realistic. Having a reasonable hope for it likely is. How much does it cost to give these guys a shot at rebuilding trade value? Think the Rays wished they had showed a little more patience with Pat Burrell? Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4923/which-players-trade?page=1#ixzz5Y1G73wPb |
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rog
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Post by rog on Nov 26, 2018 21:51:39 GMT -5
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rog
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Post by rog on Nov 26, 2018 21:53:02 GMT -5
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rog
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Post by rog on Nov 26, 2018 21:53:42 GMT -5
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rog
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Post by rog on Nov 26, 2018 21:55:54 GMT -5
2. Would consider trading if possible (I mean all vets are in play for me, but specifically) Hanson, Williamson, Melancon, Longoria. Rog -- In a rebuild, it seems to me that it makes sense to trade virtually every player beyond his mid-20's -- certainly those over 30. The challenge is to determine whom to trade if the Giants continue trying to retool. If they rebuild, the decisions are rather simple -- it's just a matter of developing a market. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4923/which-players-trade?page=1#ixzz5Y1INI2WW |
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rog
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Post by rog on Nov 26, 2018 21:56:39 GMT -5
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rog
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Post by rog on Nov 26, 2018 21:58:47 GMT -5
4. Anyone else that would get big value. Rog -- The only other players with big value would likely be the two catchers. Maybe Brandon Crawford. To some extent some of the relievers, especially if they are combined with Madison for instance. I would think a competing team might be willing to give up a bit to solidify both its rotation and its bullpen. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4923/which-players-trade?page=1#ixzz5Y1J5ozWk |
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Post by Islandboagie on Nov 27, 2018 0:15:34 GMT -5
Rog -- The other teams out there are far better at evaluating talent than we are, Boagie.
Boagie- You should really give Zaidi a chance before you condemn him. You should be more open minded.
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rog
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Post by rog on Nov 27, 2018 5:24:49 GMT -5
Nicely put, Boagie! I like a man with a sense of humor.
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