Shaw

[klaiggeb]

The kid has some huge holes in his swing, but he has one of the prettiest swings that I've seen since Will the Thrill.

Not likely to be ANYWHERE near as good a hitter, but he does have a picturesque swing.

[sfgdood]

The ball just jumps off his bat. 468 feet! I will take 250ish with that kind of pop. Get him a first baseman's glove and trade Belt...like yesterday!

[Islandboagie]

Weren't you just telling Boly he shouldn't judge a player after a few at-bats? Now you want to trade Belt away and give Shaw a first baseman's mitt after one hit? Not that I disagree about trading Belt, but I think we need to see Shaw a little more before we make such a move.

[klaiggeb]

boagie-Now you want to trade Belt away and give Shaw a first baseman's mitt after one hit? Not that I disagree about trading Belt, but I think we need to see Shaw a little more before we make such a move.

***boly says***

Huh? Where in the world did you get that, boagie?

All I did was comment on how picturesque his swing is.

Here's the quote: "he kid has some huge holes in his swing, but he has one of the prettiest swings that I've seen since Will the Thrill.

Not likely to be ANYWHERE near as good a hitter, but he does have a picturesque swing."

[klaiggeb]

that was Randy, not me.

[sfgdood]

I've wanted to trade Belt for a LONG time, Boagie. Everyone here knows that. I've also been advocating for blowing everything up and starting from scratch. You've never heard me say Shaw will be a great hitter...but after that one swing, it's obvious this kid has ridiculous pop...he doesn't need to get anywhere near ALL of the baseball on the barrel to go the distance in most yards. FREAKISH strength.

[Islandboagie]

Boly- that was Randy, not me.

Boagie- That's why I directed it at Randy, and not you.

[rxmeister]

If this kid played everyday he’d obliterate the all time strikeout record. Can you imagine him against elite pitchers? He’ll never be a starter and would never make a good team’s roster. To quote the great philosopher Johnny Rotten, “No Future for you.”

[klaiggeb]

Boly- that was Randy, not me.

Boagie- That's why I directed it at Randy, and not you.

***You're right, boagie, I TOTALLY mis read the post. My apologies.

[sfgdood]

Maybe you're right Rx...but to say this based on 2 starts in which the ENTIRE TEAM was striking out as much as him is kind of a joke. Besides, if he knocks out 30 dingers and drives in 90+, I couldn't care less how many times he Ks. Look this offense needs a LOT of help and the guys who were here all year pretty much stunk up the joint. You're going to sit here and blast a kid for less than a week's worth of time when we have veterans who are doing JUST as bad?

In a word...wow.

[rog]

The ball just jumps off his bat. 468 feet! I will take 250ish with that kind of pop. Get him a first baseman's glove and trade Belt...like yesterday!


Rog -- I understand where you're coming from, Randy, and Brandon is a frustrating player who can excite us one moment and want him gone the next. But Shaw isn't very likely to be his replacement IMO.

Chris simply strikes out too much, and the problem has gotten worse, not better, as he has risen through the system. He was OK through AA, but in 2017 at Sacramento, he struck out 106 times in 360 plate appearances, which is too much. But he was new to AAA, and in the Arizona Fall League, he showed what looked like improvement, fanning only only twice in 22 plate appearances -- and walking three times to boot.

But this was his second season in AAA, and his problem got worse. This season he struck out not just once every three AT BATS, but once every three PLATE APPEARANCES. And now that he's been promoted to the major leagues, he has hit the ball only three times in 10 at bats.

With his 468 foot home run -- seemingly effortless at that -- Shaw showed what he is capable of doing. But he doesn't do it nearly often enough, and some of his shots will be kept in the park because it's AT&T. Chris has 82 minor league home runs in 1572 at bats. That's certainly good, but it's not great. He did improve to 24 homers in 394 at bats for the River Cats this season. That's better -- but still not great. By comparison, Max Muncy has hit 31 homers this season in 335 at bats -- IN THE MAJORS.

If he doesn't solve his strikeout problem, Chris won't be a major league starter. You mentioned that with the home runs he can hit, you'd take him if he hits .250. But in order to hit just .250, Chris would need to hit .375 when he does hit the ball. That's not impossible, but it's really hard to do in the major leagues.

Plus, he's a poor fielder at both positions, and his running is average at best, as Mike Krukow likes to say. Here is a scouting report on Chris that is almost two years old now. Two positives have occurred since:

. He's played left field.

. It sounds like from this scouting report and Boly's that he's improved his swing a lot.


11. Chris Shaw, 1B
Drafted: 1st Round, 2015 from Boston College
Age 23 Height 6’3 Weight 229 Bat/Throw L/R
Tool Grades (Present/Future)
Hit Raw Power Game Power Run Fielding Throw
30/40 60/60 40/50 40/30 30/40 55/55
Relevant/Interesting Metrics
Slugged .544 in Cal League, .414 in Eastern League.

Scouting Report
You’d be hard-pressed to find a scout or executive who’d say, “Why yes, I do like prospects limited to first base, especially ones who are below average there, defensively!” Scouts are down on Shaw who, despite hulking raw power to his pull side, has a stiff, handsy swing that doesn’t consistently incorporate his lower half and very little bat control. Pending adjustments (which Shaw, who isn’t very athletic, is no lock to make) scouts expect holes in Shaw’s swing to be exploited at the upper levels. Shaw has plus raw power and even if he’s only a below-average hitter at maturity he’d still likely hit 18-plus homers at the big-league level, but even that probably isn’t enough to profile as a regular at first base. There are some who’d like to see him given a try in an outfield corner, where Shaw’s above-average arm would be more useful than it is at first. Others doubt Shaw has the range for the outfield right now and he’ll almost certainly lack it at maturity as his massive frame continues to fill out. Shaw played the outfield at Boston College, but has played first base monogamously since signing.

[rog]

I know Randy in particular is down on numbers, but one advantage they have is that they provide a way to judge a player before seeing him. Does that provide everything we need to know? No, but as you point out, neither does a small sample of seeing him play.

I'll be honest. I was shocked when Zack Wheeler threw six straight fastballs (and they were quite possibly straight as well as in order) past Chris. But Zack is perhaps the hottest pitcher in the majors, and Chris did hit a sacrifice fly his third time up.

But I wasn't expecting much from Chris because of what the numbers implied to me, and because of what the scouting reports I have read had to say. From what Boly said, even former scout Brian Sabean isn't overly high on Chris. Sounds like the Giants may be a little disappointed in his progress. I know I have been.

But what we're seeing now with our own eyes is similar to what scouts and the numbers have been telling us for a fair amount of time. One can see that what the scouts were seeing two years ago is very similar to what we're seeing now.

[rog]

when we have veterans who are doing JUST as bad?


Rog -- The Giants don't have too many veterans who are just as bad as Chris -- at least not who are starting.




Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4810/shaw?page=1#ixzz5QHDdSL00

[sfgdood]

Did you miss the last couple of weeks, during most of which the team couldnt hit the ball off a tee?

[klaiggeb]

For the time being, I've seen enough of Chris Shaw.

IF...IF I was running the team, I would put Shaw into the cage with a pitching machine and no bat.

I'd throw pitch after pitch after pitch at the strike zone, moving it around and asking HIM to tell me if it was hittable or not.

We'd then review the video, and go back and do it again, and again and again.

He wouldn't see the field for 3 or 4 games, or maybe more, until he LEARNS what is a strike and what isn't.

Continuing to play him right now is ONLY going to hurt the learning process.

You can't have 95+ pitches coming at you in a game situation when you haven't mastered what HE should have mastered 10 years ago; the strike zone.


It's like golf. If you really want to improve you do iton the practice tee, not during a round.


IF this kid has any kind of a future, which right now looks very ifffffffy, get him off the field and have him work on stuff.

And by the way, he AIN'T no outfielder. He has puss for an arm.

[sfgdood]

I'm not sure if anyone remembers but in 2009, Buster Posey was a September callup and he went 2 for 17. Boly's scouting report likely would have been about the same as the one he's giving for Shaw now. Boly's opinion of Buster hasn't changed much but I think you can see the point here. I agree that Chris needs more work in AAA...just as Buster did in 2009. The kid's just 24 but here's the thing. You can teach him to have better discipline at the plate...you can't teach the kind of pop he has. That's God-given. I like giving kids a taste of the bigs like Shaw is getting...it gives them incentive to work their ass off to get back and to STAY up.

[klaiggeb]

Posey always knew the strike zone.

I agree about Shaw's power.

THAT is why I had a plan for him TO HELP HIM GET BETTER QUICKER!

If they keep playing him, THAT is going to hurt more than help with his confidence, and his learning curve.



I've seen what the scouting reports said about his only using his arms, and what not, when he hits...and Randy, I just don't see that.

His swings are balanced and smooth, with good lower body.

He just is FREAKING CLUELESS about the strike zone.

In some ways he reminds me of Dave Kingman the year the Giants called him up.

Power to hit the ball to Venus and Mars... but strike zone-clueless

[sfgdood]

If Chris has a career like Kong did, I'd LOVE that

[klaiggeb]

Yeah, we could all live with that.

Plus, Kingman was a wild A_ _ ed swinger, too.

Chris is not.

I solid hopes for Chris but HE MUST make some drastic changes.

[rog]

Post Options
Post by sfgdood on 17 hours ago
Did you miss the last couple of weeks, during most of which the team couldnt hit the ball off a tee?


Rog -- No. I also didn't miss the remainder of their careers.





Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4810/shaw#ixzz5QMkkiOe3

[rog]

I'm not sure if anyone remembers but in 2009, Buster Posey was a September callup and he went 2 for 17. Boly's scouting report likely would have been about the same as the one he's giving for Shaw now.


Rog -- I realize you're not trying to insult us, Randy, but you are.

My GOSH, this was an accurate scouting report on 8/10/09

www.projectprospect.com/article/2009/08/10/buster-posey-scouting-report


This one from two months later isn't anywhere near as detailed, but it describes Buster as a "no brainer." Touting Shaw today might be described more as "no brains."

www.minorleagueball.com/2009/11/30/1180121/san-francisco-giants-top-20

Please note in the above that while Gary Brown had been drafted only five months before, he didn't even crack the Giants' top 20 prospects -- in a crop that was described as "one can't-miss prospect in Buster Posey, but after that things thin out." John Sickels is a tough grader (Remember, I couldn't convince him to move Tim Lincecum from an A- prospect to his very-hard-to-reach A category), but he was far too conservative with Madison, which Zack Wheeler, and with Brandon Crawford. He badly, badly overrated Thomas Neal.

Sickels did give Posey the coveted A rating however.

Entering 2010 Buster was rated #7 overall by Baseball America and #9 by Baseball Prospectus. Yes, Boly can be tough on prospects, and IIRC he had questions about Buster's defense, but I would be my house that he felt far more highly about Buster Posey then than he does about Chris Shaw now.