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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 1, 2018 19:42:08 GMT -5
Not many at bats to go on, 1 game's worth, really, but here's what I saw.
Garcia-Smooth, SMOOTH defender behind the plate!
I liked him!
Quiet set up, quiet hands. As Krukow said, a perfect guy to throw to.
I've thrown to enough bad ones to see the difference.
He impressed me back there.
Quick bat inside, but as a rookie, really over whelmed by high gas, and that is to be expected.
Obviously, we need to see more, but I liked his set up at the plate, liked his hands and bat angle.
Wouldn't be surprised if he hit between .240 and .250.
Shaw-Had a shorter swing than I remembered seeing in his AAA at bats.
Like Garcia, way overwhelmed by high gas.
They found the hole IN HIS SWING in a hurry!
Up and IN!
Either he fixes that, or he has zero future.
Brian Sabean did NOT have kind words to say about him in his podcast.
He said he'd regressed this year, and that he had some power, but that was it.
Didn't sound to me like he's high on Shaw at ALL!
Quite the contrary.
Since Brian was a former scout, I put a LOT of credence into what he sees and says, and honestly, THIS is what I was afraid of with Shaw; just a guy.
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too early to make any conclusions, but that's what I saw and heard.
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sfgdood
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stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
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Post by sfgdood on Sept 1, 2018 21:57:26 GMT -5
Boly...I really respect your opinion on mechanics and swings and such...but sometimes you WAY overexaggerate someone's future based on just a few plate appearances
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sfgdood
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stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Sept 1, 2018 23:27:08 GMT -5
By the way...I saw Brian and Bobby's "news conference" (very informal) in the Giants dugout before the game Friday. His attitude about Shaw sounded very different than the one you described. He said Shaw had earned his way here and was going to get significant time.
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 2, 2018 9:35:20 GMT -5
Listen to Sabean's podcast, Randy. You're right! It IS very different than what he said in the dugout.
In fact, I'd go so far as to say, surprisingly so.
I can only comment on what I see, and as I pointed out, (here's what I said: "Not many at bats to go on, 1 game's worth, really...")
It is ONLY a small size sample. I acknowledged that up front.
Based upon experience I wrote what I saw.
All that can change, and change a LOT, over the next 20+ games.
I certainly am NOT LOCKED IN to first impressions.
But at least I put them out there.
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rog
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Post by rog on Sept 2, 2018 11:12:18 GMT -5
Aramis his only .233 in AA this season, although his career average in the minors is .255. According to one source, he was drafted for his power bat and his power arm. Was considered an offensive catcher, so he appears to have improved considerably defensively.
Garcia was cited for his character and ability to handle pitchers.
As an aside, Boly told us how his first name SHOULD be pronounced. As a retired Spanish teacher, he of course was right on the nose. But when interviewed in the stands, his mom call him AIR-uh-muss. Poor guy has had his name pronounced wrong all his life.
But as long as Mom doesn't use your middle name when she calls you, you're not in too much trouble.
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rog
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Post by rog on Sept 2, 2018 11:22:32 GMT -5
Boly...I really respect your opinion on mechanics and swings and such...but sometimes you WAY overexaggerate someone's future based on just a few plate appearances Rog -- I understand what you're saying here, Randy, but as Boly said, he DOES quickly modify his first impressions as what he sees changes. A great example is Alen Hanson. In addition to the three discouraging plate appearances (the third was much better than the first two), Boly knew what former scout Brian Sabean had said. He knew from the board what a big problem strikeouts have been for Shaw. In addition, rarely have I seen two plate appearances as definitive as Shaw's first two. They didn't try to fool him; they simply blew gas by him. Wheeler kept the ball up nicely, but he didn't always keep it inside. Shaw looked WAY overmatched, and he likely has seen similar fastballs in the minors. It is the secondary pitches and pitching smarts that are way improved in the majors. The announcers talk about pitchers not having scouting reports on hitters when they first come up from the minors. Maybe in their day that was the case, but it certainly isn't now. Did Wheeler look confused about how to pitch to Shaw? As for Boly's willingness to change his opinion, he did so IN THE VERY POST you criticized. Boly noted that Chris's swing was shorter than he remembered it. Boly HAD looked at tape of Shaw, which is another factor he no doubt considered. I understand Boly's initial impressions are more detailed than one might expect. But remember, he knows things about baseball mechanics the rest of us don't know as well. And he did conclude his post with "Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too early to make any conclusions, but that's what I saw and heard." Give the guy a break and see if you can learn from him. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4800/first-impressions?page=1#ixzz5PxiG9OFf
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rog
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Post by rog on Sept 2, 2018 11:23:52 GMT -5
By the way, Shaw ISN'T as bad as he looked Friday night.
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 2, 2018 12:22:24 GMT -5
Of course not, and I didn't mean to imply that he was.
Kuiper nailed it in yesterday's game; Every at bat, Shaw has seen the VERY BEST from each pitcher. No hangers, no mistakes right down the heart of the plate.
Again, I was merely commenting on what Sabean said, and what I saw, compared to what I saw from him in ST; which was a long, deliberate swing.
As he said in the pregame interview, he's started slowly at every new level, worked hard, and got better; a point reiterated by his AAA manager who LOVES his work ethic and dedication to the game.
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rog
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Post by rog on Sept 3, 2018 11:34:12 GMT -5
I didn't mean to imply that you thought Shaw was as bad as he looked. If he were, he might not have made it out of A ball. Like you at this point, I'm not a Shaw fan. He has a LOT working against him:
. Way too many strikeouts
. Obvious hole in his swing, leading to #1
. Slow, inexperienced outfielder in a park where a fast, experienced one is needed
. Biggest strength is power, which is a trait muffled by AT&T
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 3, 2018 13:43:41 GMT -5
If he's a pull hitter, that will help.
But as Aurilia pointed out, Rog, the park factor is WAY over rated.
He mentioned Moises Alou, and Ellis Burks, and Jeff Kent among others who HAD NO problem hitting 20 + Hrs.
I can't see Shaw as an outfielder, I really can't.
1B or DH is the best I can project him.
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rog
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Post by rog on Sept 3, 2018 14:18:29 GMT -5
If he's a pull hitter, that will help. But as Aurilia pointed out, Rog, the park factor is WAY over rated. He mentioned Moises Alou, and Ellis Burks, and Jeff Kent among others who HAD NO problem hitting 20 + Hrs. Rog -- I guess Richie could have mentioned Rich Aurilia too. But while once again Richie knows far, far more about baseball than I, he is seeing at best half the picture. What do Moises, Ellis, Jeff and Richie himself have in common? They're all right-handed hitters. AT&T isn't easy on right-handed hitters for home runs, but it's REALLY tough on lefty sluggers, which is what Shaw is. The ball seems to carry better to left than to right In addition, Moises hit 20 only once, and he exceeded it by only two. (In his other season at AT&T, he hit 19.) Ellis hit 40 one season, so 20 shouldn't have been too hard. Kent too was a pretty solid slugger. As for pulling the ball helping Shaw, it probably will. But only if he hits high shots, not line drives. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4800/first-impressions#ixzz5Q4FQPOFF
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 3, 2018 20:00:10 GMT -5
Actually, he humbly did not.
The other guys brought it up, though, and Richie agree.
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 3, 2018 20:01:34 GMT -5
As an aside, Boly told us how his first name SHOULD be pronounced. As a retired Spanish teacher, he of course was right on the nose. But when interviewed in the stands, his mom call him AIR-uh-muss. Poor guy has had his name pronounced wrong all his life.
****Not quite what I said.
I SAID, on the website they SHOWED HIS NAME WITH A STRESS MARK OVER THE LAST "I".
And if THAT was true, THEN I proceeded to say how his name should be pronounced.
However, There is no stress mark, and that's not how dad pronounces it.
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Sept 3, 2018 20:49:42 GMT -5
Well it seems that Aramis, or his family, have decided on their own how the name should be pronounced, regardless of proper Spanish pronunciation standards. So while the graphic may have been in error, the announcers seem to be using the pronunciation Aramis himself prefers.
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 4, 2018 9:49:32 GMT -5
Absolutely true, Randy.
And THAT was my point.
' I knew when I posted the original pronunciation BASED UPON THE GRAPHIC, that if the graphic was wrong, and I said as much in that post, that I'd get ripped apart.
What the freaking hell is wrong with people that when everyone was wondering HOW to pronounce a name, and someone tries to help, he gets hammered even though he, (me) explained in the original post..."IF..."
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rog
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Post by rog on Sept 5, 2018 0:20:27 GMT -5
There is a dichotomy here, Boly. You were correct with the Spanish information you had at your disposal, and Aramis's parents chose to anglesise the name. Obviously Aramis and his parents are right, and you were right too.
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Post by rxmeister on Sept 5, 2018 7:19:24 GMT -5
Aramis Garcia is a non prospect who will hopefully develop into a decent backup. Doesn’t matter though because Joey Bart is the heir apparent to Posey, and I don’t see him failing. Please explain to me why Chris Shaw is any better than Jarret Parker. He’s the same player. Tons of power can’t make contact. Move along, nothing to see here.
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 5, 2018 9:45:54 GMT -5
Your points on Shaw are outstanding, Mark.
I can only see one difference (at the plate) between the 2.
Jarett had a herky-jerky, wild ass swing.
Shaw is more mechanically sound.
Of course if you can't make contact, none of that, as you pointed out, really matters, does it.
I agree with you about Aramis, too, Mark. I can't see him being a starter.
He looks pretty much like an Eli Whiteside clone. Good defense, spotty offense.
Then again, another guy who couldn't hit, Chris Stewart, had a pretty good career as a back up catcher.
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Sept 5, 2018 12:51:38 GMT -5
What I saw on the days that Shaw started, NOBODY in the lineup was making contact. So singling him out like that is pretty unfair. Just an observation.
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