2525

[klaiggeb]

With the trade deadline zooming towards us, I'm beginning to lean towards what Randy has wanted to do since the year began; blow it up.

I can't help but see the signs that tell me 'you ain't gonna win,' everywhere, that fluke walk off yesterday just being one of many examples.

Teams that ARE going to win GET that break; Teams that are not going to win, don't.

We don't

So, rephrasing what Randy had said, and quoting from an Old Zager and Evens song: "...tear it down, and start again."


Which brings us back to the old issue; Management won't do that.

[sfgdood]

it's kind of strange to think about it but our winning pedigree is working against us. The fans want the team to go for it at all costs...unfortunately that cost might be the future of the franchise

[rxmeister]

The problem with tearing it down and rebuilding is quite simply, you can’t. Too many bad contracts, too many no trade clauses. So basically who can’t you trade? Samardzija, Cueto, Crawford, Longoria, Posey, Melancon. That’s about 110 million in payroll right there you’re stuck with. And it’s wasted money if you’re rebuilding and not making a run at it. Who can you trade that has value? Cutch (but limited as a rental) Bumgarner, Belt, Watson, Smith. The minor league system is weak and a strong minor league system is essential in a rebuild. So the question becomes can you get enough in prospects for the second group I mentioned to rebuild your farm system, and the answer is no. I think they should explore what they can get for Bumgarner but not do a rebuild. Unfortunately he’s struggling right now and I wouldn’t be surprised if his value has diminished. The Yankees have dropped six games behind the Red Sox and I would absolutely engage them in talks. Ask them for Frazier, Andujar and Sheffield. I think they’d say no, but I would absolutely try. However, as Randy said, this team is not rebuilding. Packed house every night, Panda and Giraffe hats to sell, and on the cusp of being a contender. If the last place Mets with an even worse farm system than the Giants won’t give up and deal their aces, why would the Giants trade theirs? They’ll keep the gang together and make a run at Bryce Harper after the season, and then sign some reasonable players when that fails. I think they realize that .500 baseball keeps you in the race for most of the season and that’s fine with them.

[rog]

In the year 2525, I hope that man will still be alive.

[rog]

Very nice summary there, Mark. It's definitely a Catch 22, and you did a nice job of identifying the reasons.

The Giants have placed themselves in a very tough position, as you explained. I love your Yankees trade idea, but even then, what do the Giants do with Evan Longoria, who as you mentioned is virtually untradeable? Somehow I think they could find a place for Sheffield!

[sfgdood]

The "can't trade" excuse is crap. ANYONE can be killed OR traded if you really want to do it. This team is going to HAVE to be blown up...it's just a matter of how much time do you waste with old fogies before you make the committment.

[rog]

ANYONE can be killed OR traded if you really want to do it.


Rog -- There are indeed few exceptions aside from players with no-trade contracts. But some players can be traded for so little (due to performance and/or contract) that it wouldn't really help to do so.

The Giants are still caught in limbo, although as you have long known, I would like to see them resolve it in the manner you recommend, Randy.




Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4697/2525#ixzz5MFNrOLMp

[rog]

I can't believe you didn't jump all over "if man is still alive," Boly!

[klaiggeb]

It didn't fit, Rog, that's why I didn't use it.

[klaiggeb]

Randy: Hope you were watching the pre game show yesterday.

Pavlovic explained in detail just why it can't be blown up, as you would like.

Here's the link to the article.

www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/giants/giants-dont-have-much-wiggle-room-mlb-trade-deadline-approaching

[rog]

"In the year 2525, if man is still alive." I figured that was where you got the thread title as the Giants try to continue to remain "Ah, ha, ha, ha, stayin alive, stayin' alive." I though perhaps you were saying you could tell by the way he walked that Bobbby Evans had no time to talk trades. That he may be a dancin' man, but he's shown he can lose.

[rog]

I think Alex did an excellent job of explaining what we've been discussing here.

[rog]

I was making a play on the title of the thread. Aside from the Giants needing to trade for 25/25 man, where did the title come from?

[rog]

Tbinking about it, Alex's fine article seemed to focus mostly on the factors making it so tough to BUY at the deadline. Baer simply said of selling that it “is just something that hasn’t been done by us."

Alex should probably have asked Baer why what had been done before would affect what might be done this year. Perhaps he did, and Baer either no-commented it or spoke off the record.

The Giants are trying like heck to keep us fans engaged, but they're fighting somewhat of an uphill battle. It's as if Bobby Evans is trying to come up with a hand of three aces with one ace missing from the deck.

[klaiggeb]

In the pre game talk, he added more. Can't remember all of what it was, BUT, and I can't remember who mentioned it, but Alex had NOT considered moving pieces that, if they're out of it, would be smart to move and get good pieces back.

Tony Watson was one name I hadn't thought of that they brought up.


They also mentioned Will Smith... whom I would NOT move

Me?

I'd move Strickland and Dyson to get back some "yout."

[sfgdood]

I don't care what that article says...it's GOING to happen, sooner or later. If you don't believe it, you are fooling yourself

[rog]

I agree with you Randy that the Giants are merely postponing the inevitable. What they're hoping though -- and it is a very aggressive and perhaps unreachable goal -- is that they'll be able to make changes year-to-year until their young players arrive.

I do believe Joey Bart will be here two years from now, which should provide a big boost. But he alone isn't enough to do it, and their most exciting other prospects will almost certainly make the bigs later -- and we don't know how well they'll perform.

Heliot Ramos was coming on after a very tough start, but he's fallen back the past 10 days. I was pleased to read a scouting report though that said (in advance of the season) that we shouldn't be overly concerned if he didn't fare well at Augusta. He skipped a level, and he's still only 18. Apparently he's got holes to fix in his swing (as his strikeouts even last season indicated), but if he can get those done, he can be something approaching a five-tool player.

I was also happy to see that Luis Gonzales' son is considered to have considerable raw power, even if he hasn't shown it in games yet. Not all is fertile on the farm certainly, but the crops may be growing, not fallow.