Expendable Expenses

[rog]

The trades of Austin Jackson and Cory Gearrin created a modest amount of space under the cap for the Giants, and there is apparently some consideration of trading Derek Holland or Sam Dyson for the same purpose.  Dyson has been discussed in this context for a long time here, and Holland's recent good pitching and possible redundancy with Ty Blach make him a good candidate as well.

We have discussed the possibility of the Giants being both buyers and sellers, and selling off pieces that are viewed as expendable would free up money to acquire a piece or pieces deemed more helpful for the rest of the season.

[klaiggeb]

When Strickland comes back, someone has to go.

I keep looking at the bullpen wondering just whom is the weak link.

I see those 'weak links' in this order:

1-Blach-Little trade value

2-Dyson-Great stuff, as we saw last night.



As to Holland, with Garret Richards going down, the Angels might be a good match, but if we don't get a great deal from SOMEONE, I wouldn't move him.

To me, Holland is much more valuable to our team than Ty Blach

Dyson will be the one that get's moved because of his value to a team in the hunt.

[Islandboagie]

I'd try to get rid of Samardjiza...that is if anyone else out there is not aware of his propensity for pitching just poor enough to lose. The Giants score 5, he gives up 6...the Giants score 3, he gives up 4. If the Giants score 0, he gives up 1.

[sfgdood]

I agree that Holland and Samardzija are the arms that have the most trade value moving towards the deadline. The problem is, the Giants MUST commit to selling because the teams that would trade for them are the buyers still in the playoff race. Sellers will want young talent and aren't likely to part with their own young prospects for older retreads. Ty Blach is a guy that might have marginal value--mostly as a long man/spot starter--to both buyers and sellers.

[klaiggeb]

I totally agree.

Then again, I was working on the assumption, well, 2 assumptions, that:

1-there was ZERO market for Jeff since he was on the DL twice

And...

2-the Giants didn't want to trade him because, and I hate this phrase, "he is an innings eater."


Those aside, I think we can all agree that moving Jeff, first, is the best idea.

[rog]

Dyson will be the one that get's moved because of his value to a team in the hunt.


Rog -- Sam would be a good choice, since he's making more money than the other trade prospects except for Jeff Samardzija, who is apparently being shopped but will be tough to move. If he starts pitching great, that would help.

The idea is to move salary to set the Giants up for a big, younger acquisition or acquisitions. The Giants have done a much better job moving salary than I thought they could.

I don't think Holland is making much money, so he's likely far from the Giants' first choice to move.





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[rog]

I'd try to get rid of Samardjiza...that is if anyone else out there is not aware of his propensity for pitching just poor enough to lose. The Giants score 5, he gives up 6...the Giants score 3, he gives up 4. If the Giants score 0, he gives up 1.


Rog -- You're going to need to show strong evidence of that, Boagie, and I don't think it exists. I posted here that his won-loss percentage was right around where it should be based on his run support compared to his runs yielded. If he had a propensity for losing the close ones in high proportion, he would have almost HAD to win several fewer games the the formula predicts, and that simply hasn't been the case.

The ball's in your court, Boagie. You could be right, but I doubt it. The evidence we have thus far says it's not likely. Perhaps you can show otherwise.

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[sfgdood]

how about this...instead of trading what will save us more money, trade those who will bring back the most via trade?

[Islandboagie]

So you want to trade Crawford and Bumgarner?

[sfgdood]

Only if we get a ton back. We need to accept the fact that it's going to take a LOT more than minor tweeks to get back to the WS

[rog]

how about this...instead of trading what will save us more money, trade those who will bring back the most via trade?


Rog -- Randy, you need to understand the whole picture. The Giants are trying to do both. And both come into play on the other side of the trade.

Let's suppose the Giants try to trade Jeff Samardzija. The more salary they keep -- and thus the less they get rid of -- the more they can accept in return. So it becomes something of a trade off.

Let's suppose the Giants could get rid of Jeff's contract in return for essentially nothing. That would free up the money to use to acquire a very good players -- now or in free agency next winter.

Normally your suggestion to get as much in trade as possible makes sense, but in this situation, it's too simplistic. Salary caps complicate situations.




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[rog]

Sometimes it simply takes understanding all sides of the story. I agreed with you and continue to agree with you, Randy, that the Giants should have/should begin a rebuild. I also understand why they did what they did. If they gave up on the season they would lose fans -- perhaps for a long time. The way they played it gave them a shot at winning something, and it also placed them in position that if they blow it up, at least they gave the fans their best shot.

The Giants are hoping to stave their problem off one more year at a time until guys like Bart, Ramos and possibly the 18-year-old Santos can give them a new base to build around. It's not like the Giants don't have talent. They've got Bumgarner, Cueto, possibly Samardzija, and Posey, the two Brandon's and Panik. Even if Melancon can't come back, they've got a nice-looking closer in Will Smith. (I don't know exactly, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if Will's ERA since August 20, 2016 is around 0.50. That's pretty good pitching!)

Regarding Santos, he's still iffy, as is the case with most 18-year-olds. But he's got his strikeouts up to where they're a single strikeout below a strikeout per inning. And his ground outs to air outs have grown to 3.14 to one. I believe his ERA is 3.60, and he's given up a little over a hit per inning, so all isn't perfect, but he's also cut his walk rate in half.

And regarding Bart, he went one for four tonight. He's striking out too much, but not alarmingly so. Ramos continues to strike out too much, but he is improving as the season goes on. And at 18, he's FAR younger than the average player he's playing against in Low A. This will likely change fairly soon, but right now Ramos is playing a level higher than Bart. (Take Bart to the game, but if you want to fly higher, fly Ramos.)

I think Bart is very close to a sure thing. Ramos and particularly Santos aren't close to being sure things. But aside from Bart, Ramos and Santos may have as much potential as any other players in the Giants' system.

I think I mentioned this already, but both Ramos and Shaun Anderson -- the other pitcher in the Nunez trade -- will play in the upcoming World Game. I don't think the Giants have had too many prospects in that game previously.

[rog]

OK, Boagie, I didn't figure you would bother to look up much to back up your premise that Samardzija pitches just well enough to lose by a run, so I looked at each of his games last season.

There were six games in which he left with the Giants down by one. So you were right almost one out of every five games.

[klaiggeb]

I looked up Holland's salary, and here's what I found.

Current Contract

Derek Holland signed a 1 year / $1,750,000 contract with the San Francisco Giants, including $1,750,000 guaranteed, and an annual average salary of $1,750,000. In 2018, Holland will earn a base salary of $1,750,000, while carrying a total salary of $1,750,000.
Contract:
1 yr(s) / $1,750,000
Signing Bonus:
-
Average Salary:
$1,750,000
Free Agent:
2019 / UFA

[rog]

If I didn't know better, I'd think Derek Holland was being paid $1.75 million this year, regardless of how he pitches.

[rog]

Boagie, I'd like you to man up on this one. Last season the Giants four or more runs in only 12 of Jeff Samardzija's 32 starts. I'm not simply talking about when he was pitching himself, but four or more runs in the entire game. In those dozen games, the Giants went 9-3.

The bottom line is that when Jeff pitched last season and the Giants got at least four runs -- not just for him, but over the entire game -- they played at a 121-win clip.

In other words, not only was your point not true, there is evidence that almost the opposite was true.

So man up, pay attention, and study up a little before you make outrageous claims.

Of course the really bad news for this season is that Jeff is back on the disabled list again. I'm beginning to think Melancon, Cueto AND he may be at risk for Tommy John surgery -- and then I WILL go along with Boly on the injury thing.

One would think that barring just giving up, Derek Holland's position with the team just became stronger.

Too bad Jeff is out again. Because last season he demonstrated that when he's healthy and the Giants get him runs, he pitches well enough for them to win three out of every four.

[rog]

By the way, I'm with Randy. I would trade ANY player if it helped the team enough. And I was there with him when he said over the winter that it was time to rebuild. Fortunately, the Giants still have time to prove both of us wrong. But as my parents used to say, they need to get a wiggle on.