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Post by klaiggeb on Mar 25, 2018 12:25:20 GMT -5
Let's be clear; I am NOT throwing in the towel, at not yet, anyway.
But IF...IF I were an opposing hitter getting ready to face Giant starters, I'd be licking my chops and smiling a lot.
I'd be puttin' my hittin' shoes on.
I'd be anxious to get to the park every day but Cueto's day.
1-NO Bum
2-NO Jeffy.
3-After Cueto, a bunch of un tested, "might not be ready yet," guys.
So, what DOES the rotation look like now?
Heck, your guess is as good as mind, but until the end of April, at the earliest, here's what we've got.
Cueto
Stratton
Blach
Holland
Toss a coin.
I'm SURE that Sabean is working the phones, scouring the waiver wires for the next "Jake Peavy."
Maybe Holland is that guy.
Then again, maybe I'm John Wayne.
As I said in another thread; my fingers are crossed.
boly
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sfgdood
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stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
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Post by sfgdood on Mar 25, 2018 12:57:02 GMT -5
That is exactly the reason we are done and we might just as well begin the rebuilding process
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rog
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Post by rog on Mar 26, 2018 2:26:59 GMT -5
Scott Kazmir was just released by the Atlanta Braves. Scott was a good pitcher at one time. But his fastball had slipped to 88 mph and just died at 85 mph in his last start. His arm may not be healthy.
But if it is, why not take a chance on him? It's a long shot, but Pat Burrell had been released when the Giants signed him in 2010, and he made a fine contribution to the Giants' first World Series Championship in San Francisco.
Desperate times call for desperate measures. The Giants are right up agains the cap, and going over it would hurt them in the future. All they would need to pay Kazmir is the minimum.
This is a really long shot, but just last season the Giants got some value from Sam Dyson and Pablo Sandoval, each of whom had been releases. If Kazmir and Holland could perform miracles and keep the Giants in it until Samardzija and Bumgarner return, the season might not be lost.
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rog
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Post by rog on Mar 26, 2018 2:29:14 GMT -5
If the Giants are out of it at the trade deadline, they might take drastic action.
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Mar 26, 2018 3:30:36 GMT -5
The worst thing that can happen is the Giants play well enough for management to believe they should be buyers at the deadline...they should be selling big time
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rog
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Post by rog on Mar 26, 2018 4:03:28 GMT -5
The worst thing that can happen is the Giants play well enough for management to believe they should be buyers at the deadline...they should be selling big time Rog -- Wouldn't the way the season turned out have something to do with that? Let's suppose the Giants played well enough for management to believe they should be buyers at the deadline, they then become buyers and win the World Series. Would that then be the worst thing that could happen? With Madison and Jeff out for unknown periods, it will be tough to be in good position at the trade deadline. But not impossible. Here is the dilemma the Giants would face though. Should they go over the cap to give themselves a better chance at the playoffs even though it could cost them tens of millions should they go after the top free agents next winter (which is the one thing that would be most likely to extend their window of opportunity)? You seem to like to make these situations seem simple, Randy, and they flat-out aren't. They're facing bigger challenges than they've faced in nearly a decade. One more that will be coming down the line is whether to extend Bumgarner or not. Remember, not only do the Giants have the largest or second largest payroll this season, they have more money already committed to 2019 as well. Not simple decisions, and not simple to execute once the decision is made. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4361/opposing-hitter#ixzz5AqMJYDCd |
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Post by Islandboagie on Mar 26, 2018 10:54:39 GMT -5
I'll take the optimistic approach here, despite the injury to Bumgarner. I think we'll be much better than predicted here. We have a very solid lineup, good defense and a very good bench. That will be good enough to stay competitive and land us a spot in the post-season.
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Post by klaiggeb on Mar 26, 2018 15:59:48 GMT -5
I'm inclined to agree with you, boagie.
I mean, in 2010 we were NOT leading at the break. In fact, weren't we close to .500?
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Mar 26, 2018 16:25:41 GMT -5
In 2010 we had 3 starters with no-hit stuff
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Post by klaiggeb on Mar 26, 2018 16:55:03 GMT -5
But we couldn't score any runs.
If you can't score, you can't win.
And we had a bitch of a time scoring runs.
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Post by Islandboagie on Mar 26, 2018 17:51:50 GMT -5
The reason I have optimism is also the fact there's not much in the way of competition to grab the two Wild Card spots.
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Post by klaiggeb on Mar 26, 2018 21:02:50 GMT -5
I don't know, boagie. Arizona should still be very good, and Colorado has only gotten better.
IMHO, we're in THE toughest division in the NL, because the Padres are on the cusp and about ready to flourish in a year or so.
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rog
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Post by rog on Mar 26, 2018 22:04:04 GMT -5
I mean, in 2010 we were NOT leading at the break. In fact, weren't we close to .500? Rog -- The Giants were 47-41 at the break, four games behind the Padres. The Giants never would have caught the Padres without a 10-game losing streak in late August and early September. The Giants didn't clinch a playoff spot until the final days of the season. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4361/opposing-hitter#ixzz5Aul9GpUt |
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rog
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Post by rog on Mar 26, 2018 22:06:03 GMT -5
I'll take the optimistic approach here, despite the injury to Bumgarner. I think we'll be much better than predicted here. We have a very solid lineup, good defense and a very good bench. That will be good enough to stay competitive and land us a spot in the post-season. Rog -- I hope you're right, Boagie. I think you're in a small minority. That said, the losses of the two pitchers should cost the Giants somewhere around three or four wins, depending on how long the two pitchers are out. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4361/opposing-hitter?page=1#ixzz5AumHltv4 |
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rog
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Post by rog on Mar 26, 2018 22:07:03 GMT -5
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rog
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Post by rog on Mar 26, 2018 22:09:19 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Mar 27, 2018 1:19:48 GMT -5
The reason I have optimism is also the fact there's not much in the way of competition to grab the two Wild Card spots.
Rog -- How about the Cardinals, Mets, Diamondbacks and Rockies?
Boagie- Diamondbacks don't have JD Martinez anymore. Rockies don't have Chatwood. All those teams are decent, but are they noticeably better than us? I don't see that being the case.
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rog
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Post by rog on Mar 27, 2018 12:22:17 GMT -5
The reason I have optimism is also the fact there's not much in the way of competition to grab the two Wild Card spots. Rog -- How about the Cardinals, Mets, Diamondbacks and Rockies? Boagie- Diamondbacks don't have JD Martinez anymore. Rockies don't have Chatwood. All those teams are decent, but are they noticeably better than us? I don't see that being the case. Rog -- Good points, Boagie. I just thought that perhaps you underestimated their competitiveness. How many wins do we think it will take to make the playoffs? Maybe 87 or 88? The Giants have a team that should be capable of winning that many, but they face two clear obstacles: . The competition in the NL West may make getting wins a daunting task. The other four teams averaged 88 wins last season. Part of that was because the Giants were easy pickings, but part was because the teams are good. . Losing Samardzija and Bumgarner will likely cost the Giants three or four games. That means they would have needed to be a 91-92 win team to now win 88 games or a 90-91 win team to now win 87. Are the Giants truly that good a team? The Giants were hoping to find a fourth and fifth starter, which was no easy task. Now they're looking for a sixth and seventh starter. What would we have thought about the rotation if the Giants had entered the winter with only Johnny Cueto and some big question marks? Players have good seasons and bad. Teams have lucky seasons and unlucky ones. The Giants aren't dead by any means, but they might may be close to the emergency room. A quick question: If the Giants are looking at Brandon Belt as their fifth outfielder, why hasn't he been playing a lot of spring training games at that position? Maybe it won't matter. Remember, Travis Ishikawa became an outfielder only in the last week of the 2014 season, and the Giants won the World Series with a left field platoon of him and Juan Perez. But isn't this poor planning? Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4361/opposing-hitter#ixzz5Ay5ac2B4 |
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sfgdood
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stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
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Post by sfgdood on Mar 27, 2018 12:32:53 GMT -5
Wow...this board truly is Pollyannaville. I mean, just look at the starting rotation...you really think this collection of greenhorns and has beens can compete with the best of the NL? I'm sorry but I'm not seeing it...not at all.
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Post by klaiggeb on Mar 27, 2018 12:36:44 GMT -5
Randy, I repeat:
1- It's too early to throw in the towel.
2- We just need to stay close until they get back...
3-IF we keep it close, perhaps Sabean can work his magic and GET us that final arm we will need.
That's not Pollyannaville...yet.
It's the way we did things in:
2010
2012
2014 w/Ishi and Panik
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rog
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Post by rog on Mar 27, 2018 14:22:44 GMT -5
this collection of greenhorns and has beens
Rog -- Or are they green tomatoes and beer cans?
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Mar 27, 2018 15:59:37 GMT -5
Randy, I repeat:
1- It's too early to throw in the towel.
2- We just need to stay close until they get back...
3-IF we keep it close, perhaps Sabean can work his magic and GET us that final arm we will need.
Dood - Boly, you don't see some severe contradiction here? Both you and Boagie have been talking about Samardzija like he is the next coming of William Van Launching Pad. Now you just want to stay close till Jeff and Bum return. I'm sorry we needed a strong start, a strong middle and a strong finish this season. The fast start is now out the window. I mean even in the realm of "anything can happen" salvaging the season seems, at best, highly unlikely. Optimism?? That's a big time reach.
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rog
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Post by rog on Mar 28, 2018 1:42:40 GMT -5
I agree with Boly that it's too soon to throw in the towel. I agree with Randy that it's an uphill climb at least as high as Mt. Diablo (where I'll be tomorrow).
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Post by klaiggeb on Mar 28, 2018 11:19:52 GMT -5
Though I'm not crazy about Jeffy, Randy, he does, as you pointed out, eat innings. But there is more than that. In my crystal ball, (  ) here's what I see; 1-Stratton will be much better than Jeffy ever was or will be, and THAT moves him into the # 3 slot in MY rotation. 2-Holland now features a darned good change up; he's also healthy. When Jeff returns, that makes Holland a decent # 5 guy, behind Jeff at # 4. Yes, it's a lot of speculation, but my speculation is also based upon my experience in the game, and what I CONTINUE to see from Stratton; command of all of his pitches, and steady, consistent growth. With his breaking ball, and pin point control, he 'could' eclipse Cain's career. Why? Better control, better stuff. He's lacking only Cain's velocity. You may not agree, but that's what I see, and that's I predict. boly |
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sfgdood
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stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Mar 28, 2018 11:30:03 GMT -5
even assuming all of those things pan out--no given to be sure--that still leaves someone with mediocre stuff as your #1.
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Post by klaiggeb on Mar 28, 2018 13:09:20 GMT -5
Right now, Randy, Right now.
Remember what I originally posted; These 'fill ins' simply need to keep us close to .500 to the end of April.
When Bum gets back, for ME, THAT'S when the play off push begins.
Be patient, my friend, be patient.
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Mar 28, 2018 13:17:14 GMT -5
1. I don't think it will be "simple" for the fill ins to keep us close to 500
2. I think it's fantasy to assume that both Samardzija and Bumgarner will be their normal selves when they return. It could take a lot of starts before they are strong and sharp.
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rog
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Post by rog on Mar 29, 2018 1:27:41 GMT -5
Diamondbacks don't have JD Martinez anymore.
Rog -- He will no doubt be seriously missed, but they had him for only about a third of the season last year.
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rog
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Post by rog on Mar 29, 2018 1:28:49 GMT -5
I think your raise valid concerns, Randy.
A season where most things needed to go right has gotten off to a horrible start in that respect.
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) here's what I see;