sfgdood
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stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
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Post by sfgdood on Mar 21, 2018 18:21:52 GMT -5
Last Night NBCSBA replayed the Jonathan Sanchez No-No game. A few things...it was fun reliving the moment because it had been such a long time since John the count Montefusco hurled the last No-hitter in Giants history in 1976. I'd forgotten how unhittable Sanchez could be when he was hitting his spots. That kid could really miss bats. I'd forgotten that Lincecum had nearly thrown a no hitter in the same series. Aaron Rowand had a great day at the plate and made a great catch with 1 out in the 9th to preserve the no-hitter. The Panda sent a ball completely into orbit, a three run shot, to break the game open in the 4th inning. Eli Whiteside called a fantastic game. The coolest part was that Sanchez' dad was there watching his son pitch professionally, something he hadn't had a chance to do in person. And it was a No-No! In the Big Leagues!! Seeing the tears of pride and joy after the game was really moving.
Tonight they are replaying the Matt Cain Perfecto...that should be fun too!
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rog
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Post by rog on Mar 22, 2018 6:49:36 GMT -5
I'd forgotten that Lincecum had nearly thrown a no hitter in the same series. Rog -- I remember "listening" to that game on the computer in Maui. Tim did go, what, six or seven innings before allowing a hit? That might have been the very day before Jonathan's no-hitter, which I believe at the very least came in the same series. It was only a pre-season game, but I remember my excitement when Tim pitched a five-inning no-hitter againts the A's in his final pre-season game in 2008. I "watched" that one on the computer too. I was staying in Oak Harbor in Whidbey Island that night. That's former Boagie territory. I nearly missed my plane the next day when I couldn't get Tim's dad off the phone. The outing was a nice precursor though. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4346/#ixzz5ATeXoxDm
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rog
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Post by rog on Mar 22, 2018 6:51:03 GMT -5
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rog
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Post by rog on Mar 22, 2018 6:54:00 GMT -5
In Sanchez's no-hitter, didnt' the Giants' third baseman commit an error that caused Jonathan to have to get one more out?
As Randy pointed out, the coolest thing about Jonathan's no-hitter was that his dad and brother were there to witness it. Do we remember that they came because another bad outing from Jonathan in that game and he likely would have been sent down?
Do we remember how fabulous Jonathan was in his first 13 innings or so when he came up as a reliever? I believe Jonathan came to the majors directly from AA that season.
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rog
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Post by rog on Mar 22, 2018 7:13:46 GMT -5
One of the no-hitters I remember was the one thrown by Ed (Ho Ho) Halicki a year before Montefusco's. I remember calling my grandpa on a pay phone at Candlestick between games of the double header and telling him the wind was whirling even more than usual and that second game would likely be very high-scoring.
Shows what I know about baseball!
Juan Marichal's was the most dramatic, as the toughest defensive play came on a drive to deep left-center between Mays and, surprisingly to those who weren't Giants fans that far back, Willie McCovey. With all eyes on Mays, the taller McCovey reached in front of Mays, who might have caught the ball on his own backhand but, man, would it have been close even for Willie. It was left fielder Willie McCovey who saved Juan's no-hitter by catching that deep, well-placed drive off the bat of The Toy Cannon.
I missed Gaylord Perry's no-hitter, listening to it on the radio, but I attended Ray Washburn's no-hitter against the Giants the very next day.
Regarding no-hitters AGAINST the Giants, how many remember that Warren Spahn threw on against the Giants on a Friday night and that two days later, Mays hit his four home runs? April 28th and 30th, 1961? Willie hit at least his first two against Selva Lewis Burdette, and one of them came against future Giants teammate Don McMahon.
Willie came to the plate five times that day, and nearly a sixth. He lined out to Hank Aaron in center field the one time he didn't hit a home run, and Jimmy Davenport made the last Giants out of the game with Willie on deck. Even the Braves' fans booed that final out.
I believe the closest any player has come, at least statistically, to hitting five homers was another Braves player, Joe Adcock, who homered four times and doubled. If Willie had merely gotten under his line drive a little bit, he could have hit five.
And Willie was up most of the night before after eating some bad spare ribs and wasn't going to play until he felt good during batting practice.
It's truly a shame you guys weren't in the Bay Area at that time. There were some really exciting games, including one in 1962 when Orlando Cepeda got into it with future Giants manager Roger Craig. Gosh, those were the days!
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rog
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Post by rog on Mar 22, 2018 7:18:37 GMT -5
An aside from Spahnie's no-hitter. Matty Alou was a tremendous drag bunter, and I believe as a pinch hitter leading off or batting second the ninth, he dragged a bunt in an effort to get on base. Spahn, not so sprightly that late in his career and falling off toward third base, cut off the bunt himself.
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rog
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Post by rog on Mar 22, 2018 7:24:01 GMT -5
When Sanchez first came up as a reliever, he didn't allow a hit in his first 6.1 innings, and he didn't allow an earned run until he had pitched 12.2 frames. Even then, he left the game with a runner on first, and Brian Wilson allowed the inherited runner to score.
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rog
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Post by rog on Mar 22, 2018 7:25:13 GMT -5
Man, I never thought the Sanchez no-hitter would bring back so many Giants memories. Thanks for bringing it up, Randy.
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Post by Islandboagie on Mar 22, 2018 18:41:08 GMT -5
Rog- In Sanchez's no-hitter, didnt' the Giants' third baseman commit an error that caused Jonathan to have to get one more out?
Boagie- Yes, the third baseman was Juan Uribe, he booted an easy ground ball and I was livid with him. Not only did it make Sanchez have to get one more out, it also would have been a perfect game if Uribe had come up with it cleanly.
I eased up on him when I found out that he took that error pretty hard. So much so that his teammates had to console him after the game.
It's safe to say Uribe made up for that error the next season, and I certainly forgave him.
I can see now why you say that our memories are not as accurate as stats. Your memory is sketchy at best.
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rog
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Post by rog on Mar 22, 2018 21:48:02 GMT -5
I think the toughest no-hitter mistake came when the umpire blew the call at first base on what would have been the final out of a no-hitter that may also have been a perfect game. Instead the play became the first hit.
I think the pitcher was named Galarraga, and that would have been the highlight of what otherwise a brief and undistinguished career. I know the umpire felt horrible about it. It would be hard to live with oneself after blowing such an important call.
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Post by Islandboagie on Mar 22, 2018 22:45:50 GMT -5
And the umpire was Jim Joyce, who happened to be rated as the best umpire by, I believe, coaches and players. Joyce felt terrible and even got emotional admitting he'd blown the call.
If all umpires were as honest about their missed calls I'd have more respect for them. Unfortunately, Joyce seems to be in the minority. In fact, I don't recall another umpire being as quick to admit he blew it.
That event I'm sure played role in deciding to implement the replay review.
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rog
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Post by rog on Mar 23, 2018 7:04:26 GMT -5
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sfgdood
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stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Mar 23, 2018 10:06:44 GMT -5
Umpires always swear up and down they got it right every time they are challenged
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Post by Islandboagie on Mar 23, 2018 11:02:30 GMT -5
Rog -- When is the last time you remember an umpire denying he missed a call, Boagie?
Boagie- Usually the bad ones don't discuss the play after the game, some have even admitted they don't watch the replay after the game. The honorable thing to do is what Joyce did. The players and managers have to talk to the media after the game if they have a bad game, the umpires should too. Almost none do.
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rog
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Post by rog on Mar 23, 2018 15:51:27 GMT -5
Boagie- Usually the bad ones don't discuss the play after the game, some have even admitted they don't watch the replay after the game. Rog -- I'm pretty sure the umpires are directed NOT to speak to the media after games, although in Joyce's case I can understand an exception. Let me rephrase my question: How often have you heard umpires speak after games? Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4346/#ixzz5AbiONYiR
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rog
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Post by rog on Mar 23, 2018 16:03:51 GMT -5
Umpires always swear up and down they got it right every time they are challenged Rog -- Perhaps you can give us some concrete examples, Randy. Let me tell you my personal rules when I officiated: . Listen to what they say. . Never tell them they're wrong. . Explain to them what I saw. . Get help if it is appropriate. . When all is said and done I would tell the manager/player something like, "If it happened the way you say, I just missed it." If it was baseball, I'd usually finish it off with "Let's play ball." Wherever possible I attempted to deal with the situation with humor, although there are many times that isn't appropriate. Sometimes one can be humorous LATER, after the situation has cooled down. Certainly not all officials approach conflict in that manner, but back to the original question, what are the specific examples you can refer us to where an official said he was either right or wrong? I know that if I had a dollar for every call I missed, I would be doing OK. If I had a dollar for every call or non-call I got right, I'd be rich. But then I officiated well over 5000 games. I doubt I ever did a perfect game. And even if I did, an evaluator would find something to criticize with regard to positioning, mechanics, etc. I remember the first time I went to a basketball referee camp. I got a copy of the tape (I reffed only the first half of the game), and unless the tape missed something, I got all the calls right. But I was roundly criticized by what was then a Pac-10 ref (and later a Pac-10 evaluator), and he did so in an accomplished enough a manner that I felt really bad for disappointing him. By the way, the best complaint I got while umpiring in baseball was when I saw a pitch as being right at the knees on the outside corner. The batter saw it a little differently. He turned back to me and smiled. I got the point, and thought, what a great way to make it. Then I threw him out of the game! (Obviously not really.) I was impressed. . Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4346?page=1#ixzz5AbinMa2z
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sfgdood
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stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Mar 23, 2018 16:16:33 GMT -5
Whenever a player or manager gets in an umpire's face, the umpire never gives in right away and says, "yeah I was wrong, I'll change the call."
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Post by Islandboagie on Mar 23, 2018 16:55:26 GMT -5
Rog -- I'm pretty sure the umpires are directed NOT to speak to the media after games
Boagie- Are you pretty sure about that? Or is it that you have no idea if they're free to talk to the media?
I think they're free to talk to the media because most times when there's a controversial call the good umpires will talk openly about how the got it right or wrong.
Another instance when the umpire spoke to the media after the game is the playoff game a few years ago where he called an infield fly rule and the fielder dropped the ball. He felt he still got the call right and so did I.
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rog
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Post by rog on Mar 24, 2018 9:36:39 GMT -5
Whenever a player or manager gets in an umpire's face, the umpire never gives in right away and says, "yeah I was wrong, I'll change the call." Rog -- First of all, what good can come from getting in someone's face? But think about it. If you made a bad call, you wouldn't have made it if you realized it was bad. What would you suggest the umpire do? Change his call every time a manager came out and questioned it? Let me ask you this: How often have you seen a manager come out and challenge a call, then tell the media that he was wrong; the umpire got it right? There are a few calls an umpire can get help with. The most frequent one is the appeal to the first or third base umpire on the check swing or swing call. But for the most part, the umpire has to live with his call. If it's rules-oriented, he can make a change. But if it's a judgment call, he's almost always the guy responsible for making the judgment. The philosophy of umpiring is more or less that an umpire is (with a few exceptions) responsible for making calls at his base. Would I like to see more cooperation, as there is in sports like basketball or football? I would. But the philosophy -- probably not an individual umpire would need to change. And there is, after all, instant replay. With instant replay the percentage of calls in the field that are missed is smaller than ever before. Here is another question: Boly admits he is biased against umpires. How would he feel if umpires were biased against him? If it is wrong for an umpire to be biased against him, it is wrong for him to be biased against umpires. Instant replay is in play now. I think the way IT is handled should be improved and sped up. The problem with instant replay is that it disrupts the flow of the game. That's not a huge price to pay to get the call right, but the process needs to be sped up so the disruption can be held to a minimum. Let me ask you this, Randy: Exactly how would you change umpiring if you were in charge? Personally I think the technology is in place for all calls to be made electronically. I would have no problem with it. Umpires seem to be part of the flavor of the game. If baseball wanted to take the human element out of calls, I would have no problem with doing it electronically. But assuming that isn't going to happen, what would you do if you were in charge, Randy? If you're going to be criticial, why haven't you come up with a solution? Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4346/#ixzz5Afyna63h
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rog
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Post by rog on Mar 24, 2018 9:37:54 GMT -5
By the way, at least Boly is man enough to admit his bias. I think even he will tell you it is wrong to have such a bias though.
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