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Post by klaiggeb on Mar 1, 2018 11:40:03 GMT -5
So now you're arguing about my order?
Fine.
does it really make a difference when you're that slow?
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sfgdood
Long time member 
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Mar 1, 2018 11:48:55 GMT -5
even more important...does it really matter what order we THINK might be best a month before the season starts? It will be a work in progress. This subject is NOT worth getting panties in a wad about on March 1. Relax folks.
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rog
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Post by rog on Mar 1, 2018 21:52:47 GMT -5
If anyone cost us back to back championships, it wasn't Beltran with his .920 OPS...it was Scott Cousins.
Rog -- I think that's right on, Randy, although I appreciate the argument Boagie makes to the contrary. There are just too many factors that are contrary to Boagie's argument, and I think you said a lot here in one sentence. Because of Boagie, I get so focused on Carlos that I forget that the biggest factor was probably the injury to Buster.
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rog
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Post by rog on Mar 1, 2018 21:54:47 GMT -5
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rog
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Post by rog on Mar 1, 2018 22:00:12 GMT -5
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rog
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Post by rog on Mar 1, 2018 22:21:28 GMT -5
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rog
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Post by rog on Mar 1, 2018 22:22:57 GMT -5
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rog
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Post by rog on Mar 1, 2018 22:25:42 GMT -5
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Mar 1, 2018 22:26:33 GMT -5
as soon as you provide a list of players hit 3rd their entire caree
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rog
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Post by rog on Mar 1, 2018 22:27:38 GMT -5
even more important...does it really matter what order we THINK might be best a month before the season starts? It will be a work in progress. This subject is NOT worth getting panties in a wad about on March 1. Relax folks. Rog -- You are correct that the order doesn't matter at this point. There's a lot we don't know -- primarily whether Steven Duggar will make it or not. What IS important no matter when though is the thought that goes into a lineup. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4320/voting-order-who-lead-off?page=2#ixzz58YgYiiQV |
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rog
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Post by rog on Mar 1, 2018 23:19:12 GMT -5
Every time I watch a game, I see Posey, Hundley, Sandoval, and/or Jones STOPPING at 2B when others with above average speed would "likely" have gotten to third. Rog -- Ryder didn't play enough for his specifics to be mentioned in Bill James' Annual, but Fan Graphs rates him at 0.7 base running runs, which means he was fairly successful running the bases. That's better than Joe Panik, Brandon Crawford or Denard Span. I think you misjudged or mis-remembered Ryder. What I really think is that you remember one or two or three specific instances that tainted your judgment. Ryder didn't run the bases badly, and he's far faster than the other guys you mentioned. I know you (and the rest of us) like the speed of Kelby Tomlinson. Guess what? Jones' top end speed was just as fast as Kelby's last season -- 27.4 mph. Hundley, Buster and Pablo were nearly two mph slower. Their speeds were posted before. Did you miss them? Ryder isn't as fast as Denard, but he's slightly faster than Joe and a fair amount faster than Brandon. Is is possible you are basing your judgment on just a few instances, possibly reinforced by Ryder's being a corner infielder, a position where the players aren't usually fast? Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4318/who-bat-lead-off?page=2#ixzz58YqY5MSJ |
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rog
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Post by rog on Mar 1, 2018 23:31:34 GMT -5
as soon as you provide a list of players hit 3rd their entire caree Rog -- Perhaps you should provide the list, Randy. I suspect it's very small. It certainly doesn't include Willie Mays or Hank Aaron. Off the top of my head, I suspect Roberto Clemente may come about as close as anyone I can remember. Let's take a look. Well, Roberto batted third over 60% of the time. I'm sure there are others who batted there more, but I don't think there are a ton of them -- unless you want to count the slow Joey Votto (over 80% of the time) and Anthony Rizzo (over 75% of the time). Mays batted third nearly 80% of the time, and Aaron batted third over 60% of the time. In other words, there are virtually no hitters who have batted third all the time. Going way back, Babe Ruth -- the player for whom the baseball uniform number was created I believe -- batted third nearly 75% of the time. So I guess the ball is in your park to provide that list, Randy? And we're pretty sure that will be the end of that. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4320/voting-order-who-lead-off?page=2#ixzz58Yu1mKkb |
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rog
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Post by rog on Mar 1, 2018 23:41:26 GMT -5
Incidentally, there were a LOT of factors that went into the Giants' not making the 2011 playoffs, the biggest being that they simply weren't good enough. The Giants scored only 570 runs that season, which is just over three and a half runs per game.
We were a little disappointed in the Giants' hitting this past season, weren't we? Only one team in the National League scored fewer runs. Yet the 2017 Giants scored 639 runs -- 69 more than the 2011 Giants. Not that it made a huge difference, but having Carlos did seemingly make something of a difference. The Giants scored almost 10% more runs when he played than when he didn't. Actually, for one player, that's a significant difference (not that it was entirely because of him).
Just as bad, the Giants were actually outscored by their opponents that season. Did I mention that the biggest factor in the Giants' not making the 2011 playoffs was that they weren't good enough? Perhaps if Buster Posey had stayed healthy as Randy mentioned.
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