A Move I Was Hoping the Giants Would Make

[rog]

Another under-the-radar move by the Dodgers yesterday.  They haven 't made big moves this winter, instead successfully focusing on dropping below the salary cap.   Was it a  good move?  Hard to know.  But it might have been another low risk/high reward deal for them.

The Dodgers claimed injured reliever J.T. Chargois on waiivers from the Twins.  It was believed that the Twins were trying to sneak Chargois through so they could keep him while opening up a 40-man roster spot.

Chargois had a 4.70 ERA in 23 games last season after being called up, which certainly wasn't impressive and may have been contributed to by an elbow injury that thus far hasn't required surgery but which is considered serious enough that the Twins tried the waiver move with him.

Chargois was the Twins' second-round pick in the 2012 draft, and had fashioned a 1.91 minor league ERA with 37 saves.  He appeared to be being groomed as a future closer.  The Dodgers certainly don't need another closer, but like any team they can use good relievers.  They may have picked up a very good one earlier this winter when they traded for ground ball pitcher extraordinaire Scott Alexander, their younger, probably better version of Tony Watkins.

Chargois may turn out to be a wasted roster spot.  But since he could have been acquired by the Giants (who had a much higher waiver spot than the Dodgers) without spending a drop of salary cap money and stashed away until healthy, I was hoping the Giants would pick him up.

I nearly posted here when Chargois was placed on waivers, but I figured that since he had to go through the American League, he wouldn't make it to the Giants.  I had no idea he would make it to the Dodgers.

Perhaps the Giants felt they already had 40 better players on their 40-man roster.  Let's hope they do.  My sense though is that I would rather have Chargois than someone like Mac Williamson.

Just one more thing to follow.  Hopefully it will be a non-event and the subject is closed rather than setting up another Dodgers reliever.

[Islandboagie]

A guy that got drafted in 2012, hasn't made his mark yet and is injured on top of that...Damn, how did the Giants miss that one?

[sfgdood]

Rog wants a roster packed with guys that have been waived or DFAd by other teams

[rog]

You guys are missing the boat. Here's a follow up that came out today:


Mike Berardino of the Pioneer Press takes a closer look at the Twins’ decision to place the once-promising J.T. Chargois on outright waivers. As MLBTR’s Jeff Todd noted yesterday, Chargois was not long ago considered to be one of the club’s top relief prospects and perhaps a future closer. Twins GM Thad Levine says he isn’t surprised that Chargois was claimed off waivers by the Dodgers. “He’s got plus-plus stuff and he’s got an option remaining,” said Levine. “He’s got a lot of positive attributes. Probably, if anything, (I’m) maybe a little surprised he got that far in the process.” As the World Series runner-up, the Dodgers had the second to last waiver priority, meaning that 28 teams passed on Chargois before L.A. got its shot to claim him.

It wasn’t that long ago J.T. Chargois was considered one of the top relief pitching prospects Twins’ system, even representing the organization at the All-Star Futures Game in San Diego in July 2016.

On Friday, the hard-throwing right-hander was claimed off waivers by the 104-win Los Angeles Dodgers.

“I’m not surprised he got claimed,” Twins general manager Thad Levine said. “He’s got plus-plus stuff and he’s got an option remaining. He’s got a lot of positive attributes. Probably, if anything, (I’m) maybe a little surprised he got that far in the process.”

The Dodgers, who lost to the Houston Astros in Game 7 of the World Series, had the penultimate waiver priority.

“We made it 29/30ths of the way there, but we didn’t get there,” Levine said. “We wish him well. We think he’s going to have a bright future.”


Chargois has had some arm trouble, and the Twins hoped that would preclude his being picked up. Now they DID put him on waivers, but sometimes teams are forced to make moves they wish they didn't have to.

Just remember the names Scott Alexander and J.T. Cargios and hope that we don't regret the Dodgers have them. The Giants couldn't prevent the Dodgers' acquiring Alexander. They didn't have enough to trade for him without hurting themselves in the process. But they had waiver priority over the Dodgers and could have prevented their acquisition of Chargois -- and given themselves the chance to take a gamble on him in the process.

IMO the risk/reward on Chargois is much better than with Mac Williamson for instance. It's clear that the odds of Williamson's being a star are very high, but if his arm is healthy, his "plus-plus" stuff could make him a valuable bullpen addition. When a guy has plus stuff, that means he should be good enough for the major leagues barring command issues. When he has plus-plus stuff, that means he could become something of an impact pitcher.

Chargois missed the 2013 and 2014 seasons to Tommy John surgery, but he put up a 2.63 ERA in 2015, a 1.29 ERA in the minors in 2016 before missing almost all last season due to injury. It certainly appears that the issue is his injury history, not his stuff. For a very small salary in 2018 the Giants could have seen if Chargois is healthy. For the Dodgers, it's possible Chargois will throw his arm out. It's also possible he'll be pitching for them in the majors this season.

As an aside in the area of relievers, our old friend George Kontos is being considered for set up duty with the Pirates.

[rog]

Here is what mlb.com said of Chargois:


When healthy, Chargois has a legitimate top-of-the-scale fastball that can touch 100 mph and sits in the upper 90s consistently. He is able to throw it with plenty of sink, both missing bats and generating weak contact on the ground, though he can get a little flat and lose angle when he tries to muscle up too much. His slider can be a plus pitch that he relies on greatly. Chargois even has a changeup that can be above-average at times, though he doesn't throw it very often.

Chargois had learned that he needs to throw all of his pitches to find consistent success at the highest level. He has the stuff to close without question, but arm health is now his primary concern.


You guys might want to actually take a look at the guy before popping off. Randy almost certainly won't ever learn, Boagie, but I'm surprised at your remark. A guy is said to be able to hit 100 mph, has a plus slider and a change up that can be above average, and "has the stuff to close without question," and you don't have the vision to see that as pointed out, he would have been a low risk (He has an option left)/high reward acquisition?

His floor is blowing out his arm and never pitching in the bigs again. But his ceiling is closer. I think had the Giants picked him up, he might have become their top reliever prospect. The Giants' top reliever prospect, also according to mlb.com, is Garrett Cave, who posted a 5.85 ERA and a 1.55 WHIP at short-season Salem-Keizer. He walked a dozen in his 20 innings. Cave does have the advantage of being just 21.

Cave's college ERA was 4.54. Chargois' was 3.64, posting a 2.15 ERA as a senior. Chargois also served as a DH for Rice, posting a .308 career batting average.

Chargois may well be a flame out. His injury history isn't pretty. But he's struck out seven batters every six innings in the minors and is considered to have closer stuff. The Giants have worse prospects.

[rog]

Mac Williamson had one of the best spring training opening days of any Giant. So far my idea hasn't been a good one. Maybe I should have chosen another guy to take off the 40-man roster to make room for Chargois! But at least Williamson is a guy I know something about.

And I still wish the Giants had picked up Chargois. He has an option remaining, so he has a year if necessary to get ready.

As an aside, since Heliot Ramos was drafted and signed at the age of 17, I believe the Giants don't even have to put him on the 40-man roster for three more winters. If he's going to be a true star, by then he should be ready for the 25-man roster and the 9-man lineup.

[Islandboagie]

Rog- Here is what mlb.com said of Chargois:


When healthy,


Boagie- Nuff said.

[rog]

Rog- Here is what mlb.com said of Chargois:


When healthy,


Boagie- Nuff said.


Rog -- Don't trivialize the game by reducing a complex subject to two words. Do you think you're Randy?

Those are the words one would have said about Ryan Vogelsong. After last season, they're probably applicable to Madison Bumgarner and Johnny Cueto. Man, were they applicable to Tommy John.




Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4319/move-hoping-giants-make#ixzz58Hjk3nEV

[sfgdood]

Technically it's applicable to every player. Boagie's point, I believe, is that since mlb.com chose to use those words specifically about this player, health has been an issue with him.

[rog]

Technically it's applicable to every player. Boagie's point, I believe, is that since mlb.com chose to use those words specifically about this player, health has been an issue with him.


Rog -- Of course it has, and that was the only reason he was available. Which other pitcher with verified "plus-plus" stuff was available free of charge?

You guys have no vision. In this case, neither did the Giants. Sadly, the Dodgers did. Their gamble probably won't work out. But if it does, it is conceivable that Jansen and Chargois could provide the best one-two relief punch in the majors.

Fortunately for the Giants, their bullpen is set for the next half decade, so they didn't really need J.T. Plus, they already had one a decade ago.

Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4319/move-hoping-giants-make#ixzz58KhHL4Q1

[rog]

This could change with his next appearance, or his arm could blow out, but thus far Chargois has pitched two perfect innings, striking out three. His only blemish is that two of his outs have been fly balls, while only one was on the ground.

On the ground is the way it has been for the other Dodgers reliever acquisition we discussed. Southpaw ground specialist Scott Alexander has given up one run on two hits in three innings, and he has four ground outs to no air outs. He also has struck out five.

We've discussed how spring training doesn't always mean a lot, and it's still early. But it likely means more to players struggling to make the roster (Chargois) and players who have been acquired in trade and are looking to prove themselves (Alexander).

I thought the Giants had a nice winter. But the Dodgers had a good, although more subtle one, too. Both teams got below the salary cap, and the Dodgers came a ways to do so.

The Dodgers are going to be very hard to beat for the NL West title, but if the Giants can win a wild card berth, they might get a chance to defeat the Dodgers in the postseason.

The Giants do have their not-so-secret weapon in Madison Bumgarner.

[rog]

Good grief! Thank goodness it's only spring training, but I don't like the future implications.

The Dodgers have pitched 39 pitchers this spring training. Many of them haven't had anything approaching this level of success, but a full two dozen of the pitchers have given up a combined 11 earned runs so far.

There are just some really, really good teams out there, and the Yankees look like they're back on track to become relevant again.

[rog]

With regards to relevance, the Giants are doing so too.

[sfgdood]

You're sure getting desperate...using cactus league numbers to toot your own horn

[rog]

Because of his health (as Boagie pointed out), Chargois is something of a lottery ticket. He threw another shutout inning today, giving up one hit and striking out one. Funny outing in that Bryant, Rizzo and Contreras swung at first pitches, resulting in a ground out, fly out and infield single. Heyward was then called out on strikes on three pitches. Six pitch inning, all strikes.

Alexander is more of a sure thing. The thing that has surprised me this spring is his five strikeouts in three innings. He's really much more a ground ball pitcher.

Anyway, it's early in the spring and it's of course possible NEITHER of these guys will work out. But a great deal of the reason the Dodgers are better than the Giants right now is that they make good moves, some of them under the radar.