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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 9, 2017 10:43:02 GMT -5
Gee. What a surprise. Stanton and Ohtani signed elsewhere.
It's what I figured would happen for Stanton. Why play in OUR park, like I kept saying, when he can choose ANY more hitter friendly park?
Still, I'm regretting I bought into the ridiculous hype that said we were front runners.
To quote from an old song by The Tams, for those of you who remember it, "What kind of fool, do you think I am?"
Evidently, a darned big one!
All the same part of me is NOT sorry we didn't sign Stanton.
Unless he goes to LA.
Then we are so screwed that suddenly baseball will be no fun for likely the next 5 to 8 years.
NOW we really DO have the money to make multiple moves; and multiple moves are what we MUST make.
CF, RF, 3B
All 3 must be impact players.
Ozuna would be an impact player, but I'm not sure about when his contract is up.
Can he play RF?
Now, it seems, we get to keep Panik, a priority for me.
But just the same, NOT getting Giancarlo is depressing.
boly
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Post by Islandboagie on Dec 9, 2017 11:28:50 GMT -5
I have just one word to describe my feeling when I heard Stanton wasn't going to accept a trade to the Giants - WHEW!
Now the Giants can focus on upgrading the team as a whole.
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 9, 2017 12:45:47 GMT -5
I'm leaning in that direction, too, Boagie.
No.
Make that, "Whew!" for me too, since I just read that it 'appears' Stanton WILL accept a trade to the Yankees and he's NOT GOING to LA.
You're right; now we can focus on the whole team... which is really what is needed.
boly
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rog
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Post by rog on Dec 9, 2017 22:23:49 GMT -5
One positive we get from the way the Stanton thing turned out is that the Dodgers are going to remain true to their plan to cut salary and develop from within. They almost certainly could have had Stanton if they had been willing to spend. The only problem is their "within" is very strong.
A question: Were we blinded when the new Dodgers ownership spent like horny sailors getting into port after a long dry spell? Did we miss that the greater issue was their desire to improve from within? Spending big-time money can't necessarily go on forever. Developing from within can.
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rog
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Post by rog on Dec 9, 2017 22:42:25 GMT -5
Ozuna would be an impact player, but I'm not sure about when his contract is up. Rog -- You can find out at Baseball-Reference.com by simply searching for Ozuna and then looking near the very top of the page, clicking "more bio," where it states the earliest time when a player is arbitration-eligible and eligible for free agency. In Marcell's case, he could be eligible for free agency in two years. I was thinking Ozuna is the type of player the Marlins would WANT to keep -- young, inexpensive and controllable. But perhaps they feel their timetable is longer than Marcell is controllable and thusthey would be willing to trade him for prospects. Of course, that's what the Giants DON'T have. One thing to remember about Ozuna is that his 2017 season is more likely to be unsustainable than to be a true breakout. That said, he's projected to have a pretty good season in 2018. A drop, but not a precipitous one. But his .355 BABIP is almost certainly unsustainable, as is his 23% home run ratio on fly balls. Two-thirds of that home run rate might be sustainable though, and his BABIP might drop by only 25 points or so, and that would still give him a good average and good power. But I suspect 2017 will be a career year for Marcell. He may not even approach it again. Does that mean I wouldn't go after Ozuna? It doesn't. But it does seem to me that someone will overpay to get him, and the Giants don't have the prospects to overpay. I think I would trade Ramos for him, but I would do so regretfully, and I don't think that would be enough to get Marcell anyway. Virtually any other prospects would be on the table for me though. Arroyo, Beede AND Shaw I would do in the proverbial New York minute. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4184/surprised?page=1#ixzz50pCuail7 |
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Post by rxmeister on Dec 10, 2017 11:25:34 GMT -5
I’m with Boly, disappointed that we didn’t get Stanton, but relieved he went to the AL and we won’t see him till 2019. As for Ohtani, I’m disappointed, but more from a fun aspect than him being a great player aspect. The comps I’ve heard for him is Luis Severino as a pitcher and Joc Pederson as a hitter. If that turns out to be true, I would have loved him in the rotation, but he wouldn’t have solved our offensive problems by a long shot.
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sfgdood
Long time member 
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
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Post by sfgdood on Dec 11, 2017 21:18:04 GMT -5
Yeah...Whew!! Who wants an MVP player anyway right? The Giants are way better off...dodged that bullet...we would have been so much worse.
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rog
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Post by rog on Dec 12, 2017 13:27:32 GMT -5
Perhaps you could assess the risk/reward aspects of trading for Stanton, Randy? Unless you do, your comment is rather shallow, isn't it?
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 12, 2017 13:33:05 GMT -5
I think boagie's point, and mine and Mark's as well as others, Randy was that IF we had signed Stanton, likely we would NOT have been able to afford enough to make the move worthwhile.
Of course we'd love a player like him.
But as I posted over 10 days ago, who protects him in the line up?
Certainly not Posey or any player we currently have.
boly
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Dec 12, 2017 14:16:34 GMT -5
If Stanton was hitting behind Posey, Gerald would be getting so many fat fastballs, his BA would be 350+ and his power numbers would grow. Then I would put Craw behind Giancarlo and Brandon's RBI total would be big enough that even Rog would see he can be better than Simmons overall.
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 12, 2017 14:20:24 GMT -5
And he'd be hitting into so many double plays and killing rallies, it'd drive us all cookie boo.
boly
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Dec 12, 2017 14:24:58 GMT -5
I'll take 13 GIDPs with 130 RBI every time
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rog
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Post by rog on Dec 12, 2017 22:40:12 GMT -5
But as I posted over 10 days ago, who protects him in the line up?
Certainly not Posey or any player we currently have.
Rog -- Stanton batted mostly second last season, and the player "protecting" him was Christian Yelich. As I have mentioned recently, I like Yelich. But last season he batted .282 with a .439 SLG. In what you consider a down season, Buster hit .320 with a .462 SLG.
Somehow Stanton managed not to be overly affected by having Yelich batting behind him.
You can't have it both ways. Either this "protecting" thing is overrated (which I believe), or you need to cut Buster some slack on his RBI's, since there is no way he could be considered protected in your definition.
If the Giants have no one who could protect Stanton, they certainly didn't have anyone to protect Buster.
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rog
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Post by rog on Dec 12, 2017 22:42:07 GMT -5
we would have been so much worse.
Rog -- Who said the Giants would be worse in the short run? No one here.
So your comment really has no meaning. I hate to say this, but I'm beginning to think you just don't get it, and you never will.
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rog
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Post by rog on Dec 12, 2017 23:33:27 GMT -5
If Stanton was hitting behind Posey, Gerald would be getting so many fat fastballs, his BA would be 350+ and his power numbers would grow. Then I would put Craw behind Giancarlo and Brandon's RBI total would be big enough that even Rog would see he can be better than Simmons overall.
Rog -- The flaw in the logic here is that Brandon would be no better a player if he had more RBI's only because he had more runners on base. And the 59 homers Stanton hit would have guaranteed 59 times Brandon would hit with the bases empty.
As for my placing Simmons ahead of Brandon overall, this is the first season I have placed Simmons ahead of Brandon. Simmons finished #8 in the MVP voting even though the Angels were only two games below .500 and didn't make the playoffs. Almost all serious observers would have placed Andrelton above Brandon this past season.
I believe Simmons has been the better fielder all along the way, and most seem to agree.
You might benefit from paying more attention to what I actually say than to what you seem to THINK I said.
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rog
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Post by rog on Dec 12, 2017 23:35:28 GMT -5
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Post by donk33 on Dec 13, 2017 1:50:25 GMT -5
If Stanton was hitting behind Posey, Gerald would be getting so many fat fastballs, his BA would be 350+ and his power numbers would grow. Then I would put Craw behind Giancarlo and Brandon's RBI total would be big enough that even Rog would see he can be better than Simmons overall. Rog -- The flaw in the logic here is that Brandon would be no better a player if he had more RBI's only because he had more runners on base. And the 59 homers Stanton hit would have guaranteed 59 times Brandon would hit with the bases empty. As for my placing Simmons ahead of Brandon overall, this is the first season I have placed Simmons ahead of Brandon. Simmons finished #8 in the MVP voting even though the Angels were only two games below .500 and didn't make the playoffs. Almost all serious observers would have placed Andrelton above Brandon this past season. I believe Simmons has been the better fielder all along the way, and most seem to agree. You might benefit from paying more attention to what I actually say than to what you seem to THINK I said. dk...you got your logic a** backwards....a good hitter hitting behind a batter usually means that the batter will be pitched to and not around him...which usually means the good hitter gets pitches he can hit... |
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Post by donk33 on Dec 13, 2017 1:57:13 GMT -5
If Stanton was hitting behind Posey, Gerald would be getting so many fat fastballs, his BA would be 350+ and his power numbers would grow. Then I would put Craw behind Giancarlo and Brandon's RBI total would be big enough that even Rog would see he can be better than Simmons overall. Rog -- The flaw in the logic here is that Brandon would be no better a player if he had more RBI's only because he had more runners on base. And the 59 homers Stanton hit would have guaranteed 59 times Brandon would hit with the bases empty. As for my placing Simmons ahead of Brandon overall, this is the first season I have placed Simmons ahead of Brandon. Simmons finished #8 in the MVP voting even though the Angels were only two games below .500 and didn't make the playoffs. Almost all serious observers would have placed Andrelton above Brandon this past season. I believe Simmons has been the better fielder all along the way, and most seem to agree. You might benefit from paying more attention to what I actually say than to what you seem to THINK I said. dk...you got your logic a** backwards....a good hitter hitting behind a batter usually means that the batter will be pitched to and not around him...which usually means the good hitter gets pitches he can hit... dk...I punched the wrong button before I could straighten out my a** backward explanation....if your 3 hitter has a good hitter hitting in the 4 hole, the 3 hitter will usually get more good pitches to hit....if you have a good 5 hitter, too...than the 4 hitter will also get some good pitches to hit.....it will be interesting to see what happens to the Yanks with Stanton and Judge in the lineup... The Angeles have found that their Japanese pitcher has an arm full of problems...another one of those great modern day physical wonders..... |
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rog
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Post by rog on Dec 13, 2017 8:28:11 GMT -5
you got your logic a** backwards....a good hitter hitting behind a batter usually means that the batter will be pitched to and not around him...which usually means the good hitter gets pitches he can hit... Rog -- So you're saying that since the Giants have virtually no protection for Buster Posey, he's a better hitter than he seems? That his .320 batting average last season was amazing and that, as Randy says, if he had proper protection (say Willie McCovey and Orlando Cepeda for instance), Buster would likely hit for a higher average than Willie Mays ever did? Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4184/surprised#ixzz519BMEjPW |
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rog
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Post by rog on Dec 13, 2017 8:38:28 GMT -5
The Angeles have found that their Japanese pitcher has an arm full of problems...another one of those great modern day physical wonders Rog -- I have to admit that is something I completely overlooked. A starting pitcher who throws as hard as Ohtani does is highly likely to develop arm problems. In Ohtani's case it is said to be a first-degre sprain, which is the least bothersome time. But a sprain is still the tearing of tendon threads, so no question it is a concern. I don't see the Angels choosing not to sign Ohtani because he didn't pass his physical though. Has anyone here read Jeff Passan's book about the pitching arm? If not, you should read it. Well-written, and most importantly an eye opener. Does anyone here read about baseball in detail? Aside from Boly's mention of Russ Hodges' "My Giants," I haven't seen much mention of baseball books. Don does mention Bill James' Annual Handbook, which is a source of fascinating information. By the way, Boly, I recently purchased "My Giants." After your comments about the book, I realized I was remiss in not reading it. I had completely forgotten the book. Thanks for bringing it up. Right now I've got too many library books checked out! Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4184/surprised?page=1#ixzz519CiVoNu |
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