Top 10 Lists

[Rog]

Bleacher Report is coming out with its list of the top 25 players at each position.  It's nice that they're going so deep.  It might allow some of the Giants' players to make it!

Realistically though, the Giants' problem is that they have too many positions that likely won't even make the top 25.

I'm sure these lists will generate controversy.  I'm going to limit them to the top 10, which corresponds with the MLB Network's lists after the first of the year.  And makes it a little easier to get some discussion going.  This list is a little different from the later MLB Network list in that this list is the top 10 of 2017, whereas the MLB list will be the Top 10 Right Now.

I don't think it was the first list Bleacher Report published, but the first one I saw was third basemen, so here are their top 10 third basemen:

(A side note:  The depth at third base might be as great as any position in the game.  Unfortunately the Giants don't have any of it.)


10. Evan Longoria, TB

9.  Travis Shaw, Mil

8.  Alex Bregman, Hou

7.  Manny Machado, Bal

6.  Josh Donaldson, Tor

5.  Justin Turner, LAD

4.  Kris Bryant, Cubs

3.  Anthony Rendon, Wash

2.  Jose Ramirez, Cle

1.  Pablo Sandoval, SF

(Where's the fun if we can't joke around?)

1.  Nolan Arenado, Col


Two of the top five are in the Giants' division.  How do we like the list?  Omissions?  Misplacements?  Anyone the Giants might reasonably trade for?

[Rog]

One can always quibble, but I think this list is pretty good. A fairly high level of importance was placed on defense, which is one reason the 38-home-run hitting Mike Moustakas was ranked only #19 and Nick Castellanos #25. Both players have been discussed with regard to the Giants here or elsewhere. Their defense might be part of the reason they don't wind up in SF.

Needless to say, Pablo Sandoval didn't make the top 25, and Eduardo Nunez was ranked #23.

[Rog]

2017 truly was a great season for third basemen. Moustakas, Miguel Sano and Joey Gallo all showed tremendous home run power, yet none of the trio could penetrate the top 10. Castellanos hit 26 and wound up only #25. The Giants may well have been the weakest team in the majors at third base. Their outfield was also likely the worst.

[Rog]

Speaking of the Giants' outfield, Hunter Pence's 67 RBI's give me a little more hope for him. But his OPS and fielding were both really poor.

[klaiggeb]

Not me, Rog.

He looked for all the world like a guy at the end of his string.

Power in the last couple of months?

Almost nil.

Most of his hits were soft ground balls, or soft line drives where he was way off balance.

I know. I watched almost each and everyone.

Very seldom do we see him drive the ball anymore.

boly

[Rog]

I'm not sold on Hunter. One of the things this season showed me was that in a way he hasn't been a great hitter for many years. As you point out, his average is propped up by infield hits on balls where he was really fooled or at least didn't make even moderate contact.

His outfield play worried me even more. It had been declining surreptitiously for a couple of years, and this season it was just awful.

Just a few minutes ago I was talking with the person who aside from my wife is my best friend, and he spoke about how bad Span and Pence were. I told him I believe it was Andrew Baggarly who said, "Span and Pence. They don't make sense."

The RBI total did give me a touch of hope. Incidentally, I have long pointed out that when Hunter reached 100 RBI's in 2012, he simply had a TON of runners on base. He did an OK job of driving them in, but the opportunity stood out more than the performance.

This past season he did a decent -- not great -- job with many fewer opportunities.

The Giants might be able to limp by for a year with a platoon of Span and Pence in left, getting at least a little value from the two big contracts.

[klaiggeb]

Yes. I thought his outfield play, which I thought declined significantly in 2016, got even worse last year.

I saw more and more bad routes, more and more balls I'm SURE he would have caught... that now fell.

boly

[Rog]

As recently as 2009 Hunter appears to have been a very good fielder, but he's fallen off badly since then. Defensive Runs Saved has him at a bit of a positive in 2010 and 2011, but shows him as below average every year since. I think Hunter's defense may have been overrated the entire time he's been a Giant, and the past two or three seasons he's really slipped.

After the 2009 season, Bill James' Handbook ranked Hunter the #2 defensive right fielder, behind only Ichiro. In 2010 he fell to #10, and then to #15 in 2011. In 2012 he didn't receive any votes at all.

[Islandboagie]

I never really considered Pence to be that great in right field. His hustle is what separates him from the rest. But a lot of those "hustle" plays were highlighted because he looks so awkward doing it.

Don't get me wrong though, I love Hunter. He's probably one of, if not the best all around right fielder the Giants have ever had. But defense? I can think of a few just in the last 10 years that were better.

[Rog]

He's probably one of, if not the best all around right fielder the Giants have ever had. But defense? I can think of a few just in the last 10 years that were better.


Rog -- Good analysis of Hunter.

Regarding the right fielders the Giants have ever had (and I'm going to assume mean the SF Giants), in my mind Bobby Bonds and Jack Clark stand out. Felipe Alou was quite good.

I would have guessed that Hunter had hit better than .272 as a Giant, but that is in part because I had forgotten that he hit just .219 back in 2012. Even then we thought he was good, since he drove in a lot of runs. But as was again mentioned recently, Hunter drove in a lot of runs in great part because he had a ton of opportunities.

Hunter has been a good Giant. He's had about as good an attitude as any Giant ever. His actual play has probably been a little overrated.




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