things about which I'm fed up and sick of

[klaiggeb]

Never in my 67 years on this planet have I been more disappointed by a team, more disgusted by the performance of a team, and more happy to have a season end than this one.

Never.

And Never have I NOT looked forward to an upcoming season as I am not looking forward to the 2018 season.

Never.

But to my topic:

I am flat fed up and SICK:

1-of his team taking more fat fastballs down the gut than I've ever seen any team do.

2-of the number of swing throughs on hittable pitches. We have to lead the league in that department.

3-of Ball Freaking Four! These guys are supposed to be major leaguers, but their INABILITY to throw strikes has befuddled. me

4-of the absolutely STUPID base running mistakes that this team makes. Like today; point in case; Span getting picked off (again) by a terrible move! What in the world was he looking at?

5-of our incredible inability to hit with RISP. And for my money, Posey is the worst. All of a sudden hitters start changing their approaches... and the team paid for it.

6-of a bullpen that can't get outs

7-of a bullpen that can't close out games.

8-of a team full of slug footers or below average runners who can't go from 1st to third, or 3rd to home.

I said it when this park opened as PacBell, in THIS yard, you need a team that can run with just a little power.

We don't have either.

We need a CF like Lorenzo Cain who can go get the ball.

We need a RF who can play defense and hit with 15-20 HR power.

We need to send some players packing; like Span.

And as I said, I just don't seen anyone coming up to make me look forward to next season.

I don't.

I just don't.

boly

[sfgdood]

A lot can happen between now and ST. Relax

[Islandboagie]

I don't think we're that far from being a good team.

Remember when Pagan was referred to as the "spark" to our offense?

I believe Span is the exact opposite. Even when he does manage to get on base, he often follows it up with an incredibly dumb base running mistake.

The main focus this off season should be getting rid of Span. If that happens we instantly become much better.

[klaiggeb]

Not that I disagree, Randy, I should relax.

But that's not my nature.

You and boagie seem to think we're close, but my question is, where and how are we close?

We need 3 new outfielders, or at the very least, a CF.

As much as I was pulling for Parker, I'm not leaning strongly for what Roger's been saying all along; ain't gonna happen.

Same with Mac.

Maybe Pence's back HAS been the problem all year, but if not, all he's become is a singles hitter.

And his defense...man! Has that gone down hill.

IF...IF it's his back, THAT would answer a lot of questions.


1B? Belt? Concussions? I'm not sold.

3B? Panda? Ryder? Arroyo? Ryder can play him some defense, but he went into the toilet and never came out. Panda LOOKS slow, and his mediocre range has severely diminished. 1B for him seems the best bet.

boly

[sfgdood]

I don't think it's so much that I think we're close...but I also don't think we're as hopeless as your frustration indicates. The RIGHT moves and some reasonable upticks in contribution offensively can make a huge difference.

I could live with Hernandez in CF if we get some solid corner OFers.

Belt needs to go, as I've been saying for 2 years. There's just no upside to him. Posey is a better instinctive first baseman and he doesn't even play there regularly. Maybe we can fleece a team for a solid LFer.

To me, Arroyo needs to be given the 3B job from day 1 in Scottsdale and just leave him there. I'd have preferred to do that this season but the kid just needs reps and he will get there, I truly believe that.

Every other spot is fine, and the pitching I'm good with. Moore is young enough to turn things around. Not worried about him. The bully, with Dyson, Melancon and Smith anchoring the back end, should be legit. Basically the corner OF and 1B is the only pressing needs I see.

[Rog]

I don't think we're that far from being a good team.

The main focus this off season should be getting rid of Span. If that happens we instantly become much better.


Rog -- So all the Giants have to do to be a good team again is to get rid of Denard? That wouldn't be hard. Just cut him. I don't think he's quite the only problem though.

I'm a little torn on the thought of the Giants' not being all that far from being a good team again. It's an enticing thought, and one that seems to make sense given that the Giants do have several players ranging from good to excellent. But the Giants finished 23 games out of the playoffs, and that's a lot to make up over a single winter.

Bobby Evans has said that the Giants will make bold moves this winter. They certainly need to. They need to be very creative, and they need to spend like ... the Dodgers. Well, maybe not quite that much, although the Dodgers have been reducing payroll. They were down to a "mere" $241 million this season from $271 million in 2015.

The Giants were at $181 million entering this season. They may need to come close to splitting the difference between their $181 million and the Dodgers' $241 mill. Or at least get to $200 million. I'm not sure they can become competitive again without doing so. I'm not sure they can become competitive over this winter even if they do spend $200 mill.

And that's a sad thought.

Jeff Samardzija looks to me like the most likely to be traded. He's making $18 million a season for three more seasons, and he should bring a nice return. I would trade him for young players -- and then perhaps use the saved money on a free agent. Few if any power hitters relish the idea of playing in San Francisco, but some of them fell through the cracks last winter. If the Giants pay a little extra to a power hitter who falls through the cracks, maybe they can land one.

The magic number for the Giants this past season was four runs. When they scored four or more runs, they usually won. If they scored three or fewer, they almost always lost. Sacrificing pitching would likely change that dynamic somewhat, but it appears more scoring is an imperative. And more scoring these days usually involves power hitting.

So my formula if the Giants want to turn things around quickly and remain strong over the next five years or so is to trade age for youth, then use the savings to buy what is needed -- which is mostly outfielders. One is an absolute necessity. Two would be nice. Three is probably what they truly need.

Span might make a nice backup until the Giants can get rid of him a year from now. I'm not quite sure why you're so down on him though, Boagie. I agree he's not very good, but he has a fair amount of company in that regard.




Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4084/which-fed-sick#ixzz4uQDNlZnm

[Rog]

3B? Panda?


Rog-- Here is something that is pleasantly shocking. Pablo underwent a horrendous 2 for 56 slump. That's one of the worst slumps we've ever seen. But by season's end he had put that well behind him. Here is the shocker. Take out that horrible slump (which we can't do, of course, except perhaps in looking forward at what MIGHT be), and Pablo hit .327 as a Giant.

He's having a hard time catching up to his own shadow when he runs, and he was about as inconsistent as my cooking, but by the end of the season he could hit again. Can he do so consistently? I'd like to see. Not overly optimistic, but intrigued -- much as was the case when the Giants re-signed him.

Let's suppose Brandon Belt's health is good enough that he could be traded. He was said to be working out by season's end. That's a good sign. Follow the pattern of trading salary for youth. And then, in addition to whatever return the team would get, they might have a potential rotation of Posey, Hundley, Sandoval, Shaw and Arroyo for catcher and each corner infield slot.

If it's experience we want, trio up Hundley and Sandoval with Posey. If it's the young guys we want, play Posey with Shaw and Arroyo. To make this work, Pablo does need to be able to play each corner, and he needs to be able to hit off the bench.

If the Giants want to develop Arroyo and Shaw at the major league level, Pablo might make a good fallback if either can't cut it right away.