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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 13, 2017 9:41:01 GMT -5
Last night provided 2 perfect examples that point out exactly why I am not, and have never been head over heels in love with Buster Posey.
I won't even go into his paltry 12 HRs, and 61 RBIS...I'll just deal with last night.
1-Rally killing double play mid way through the game, chasing a bad pitch on the outside corner.
That's why to ME, he'll always be 6-4-3 Poh-zee.
2-Bases loaded, bottom of the night... strike three.
That cannot happen as much as it does to Buster.
It just canNOT.
Not to the supposed best hitter on the team.
Even the rookie Calixte got a SF to make the game 4-3.
Not buster.
Didn't even make contact.
As I said above, THAT all happens way too much to our team's best hitter.
boly
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Post by Islandboagie on Sept 13, 2017 10:05:12 GMT -5
I agree with you to an extent, Boly. Especially about the strikeout in the 9th. That was a mistake left right over the heart of the plate and he still swung through it.
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Post by Rog on Sept 13, 2017 19:07:55 GMT -5
This season Buster has hit .313/.894 with Runners In Scoring Postion. With runners on base he has hit .310/.855.
In late & close situations, he has hit .283/.774. In games within one run, he's hit .315/.838. In high leverage situations he's hit .288/.750. In innings 7-9, he's hit .336/.876.
While far from spectacular, those are pretty good numbers. I wouldn't overly worry. Remember, Buster isn't a great hitter; he's a great hitter for a CATCHER.
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 13, 2017 19:52:57 GMT -5
Roger, here are some facts:
Posey has 61 RBIs, and only 12 HRs. ONLY!!!!
He's hit 3rd or 4th all year long.
Panik has played 3 games less, has 10 HOME RUN, and 49 RBIs, and MOST of the year he hit 2, 7 or 8 hole!
That's only 12 RBIs LESS than our 'best hitter.'
Span has played 12 games less, has 2 home runs less than 'our best hitter,' and ONLY 20 RBIs less and HE HIT 1ST most of the freaking year!
Crawford has 13 HRs and 70 RBIS, and hit 5th or 6th most of year.
See any problems here?
I do.
Big ones!
The argument can be made until HELL freezes over, and the LA announcers made it, that Posey has not had the opportunities and blah, blah, blah...because of players having a down year.
Horse sh__ _!
That's what I think of that argument.
And Panik has had more? Hitting mostly 2, 6, 7 or 8 hole?
I don't think so.
Span has had more? Hitting 1 hole?
Spare me, please.
I don't CARE what his numbers say.
I presented the facts above.
He has NOT delivered like a 3/4 hole hitter should.
And dats da fac, jack! as Bill Murray's character said in Stripes.
Posey's average has been great for a catcher, but the rest of his offensive game?
It has left a LOT to be desired.
boly
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Post by Rog on Sept 14, 2017 12:16:49 GMT -5
I don't CARE what his numbers say.
Rog -- I wouldn't care about the facts either. Ironic, isn't it, that your post is FILLED with numbers, which you don't care what they say.
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Post by Rog on Sept 14, 2017 12:20:23 GMT -5
He has NOT delivered like a 3/4 hole hitter should. Rog -- I don't think anyone here has said that he has. He hasn't hit horribly either. Somewhere in between. What he has mostly lacked is power. In the context of the horrible hitting team that is the Giants, he's been pretty good. Comparatively speaking. Clearly the biggest problem has been the outfield. And, lately, third base. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4071/strike?page=1#ixzz4sfsry0N8 |
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 14, 2017 12:33:12 GMT -5
Agree.
This team has so many problems that I just don't see them being fixed in one off season.
I don't CARE what his numbers say.
Rog -- I wouldn't care about the facts either. Ironic, isn't it, that your post is FILLED with numbers, which you don't care what they say.
***boly says***
I should have been more clear; you pointed out Posey's .287 average with RISP.
THOSE are the numbers I don't care about.
That .287 looks good, but it isn't. Not really.
boly
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Post by Rog on Sept 14, 2017 12:44:39 GMT -5
That .287 looks good, but it isn't. Not really. Rog -- No, it isn't. Not quite. It's more above-average. He's walked 31 times while striking out 19, so pitchers are clearly pitching him very carefully. His power hasn't been particularly good with RISP, although merely getting a hit is usually good enough. Not quite enough of those either. About four more is what we'd like. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4071/strike#ixzz4sfyiSgoY |
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Post by Islandboagie on Sept 14, 2017 14:09:30 GMT -5
Rog has a valid point, hitters aren't getting on base in front of him, and there's not much protection behind him.
The only player I've ever seen flourish in that kind of situation is Barry Bonds on steriods.
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 14, 2017 15:18:12 GMT -5
I'm not arguing that players are not getting on in front of him boagie, but I'm asking this:
How can Panik, 2, 6,7,8 hole have 12 RBIs less?
How can Span, mostly 1 hole, have as many HRs?
How can Span have ONLY 20 RBIs less?
How can Crawford, 5,6 hole mostly, have 70 RBIs with as terrible a year as he's having?
None of those guys hit 3/4 hole all year long.
Those are all solid questions to which Roger, nor anyone else can provide acceptable answers.
Therefore I find Roger's rationale moot because others who DIDN'T hit 3/4 hole have done almost as well, or, in Crawford's case, better.
boly
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Post by Islandboagie on Sept 15, 2017 9:58:34 GMT -5
We've tried explaining it to you, Boly. Those other hitters are nearing or surpassing Buster in homeruns and RBIs because they're getting more pitches to hit, no matter where they are in the lineup. When teams play us the strategy the pitches take is to not let Posey swing the bat. Could Posey take advantage of more mistakes? Of course. But if you threw together a solid lineup around Posey he would have more homeruns and RBIs. That's about as close to being a fact as possible without actually being a fact.
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 15, 2017 10:14:20 GMT -5
boagie, I DO understand what you're saying... I'm just not agreeing with that argument.
Too many other players NOT hitting 3/4 hole are doing better.
Now IF we had a better lineup, would Posey's numbers be better?
Likely, for sure.
But the facts are the facts.
Right now, IMHO, he's not producing well enough.
boly
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Post by Rog on Sept 15, 2017 13:55:21 GMT -5
I'm not arguing that players are not getting on in front of him boagie, but I'm asking this: How can Panik, 2, 6,7,8 hole have 12 RBIs less? Rog -- That is a very good point. First of all, Buster isn't have a great RBI season. He's been OK since April, but he drove home only 3 runs that month. Secondly, Buster gets walked a lot with RISP. He has walked 31 times (13 intentionally) with 112 at bats. Joe has walked 12 times compared to 98 at bats. Still, Buster has had 14 more at bats with RISP than Joe. He has also driven in 46 runs with RISP compared to Joe's 35. That's more than a third more. Joe has had a very good year for himself driving in runs with RISP. Buster has had a down year. Yet Buster has still driven in 11 more runs with RISP than Joe has. With RISP, Buster has hit .313 with a .438 SLG. Joe has hit .286 with a .347 SLG. Joe may have been a little luckier with things like runners scoring from second base on a single, etc. Joe does have 6 sacrifice flies to Buster's 4. A big but often overlooked difference between the two is that Buster has grounded into 10 double plays with RISP, while Joe has hit into only two. If we want to see where Joe is better with RISP than Buster, it hasn't been in driving runners in; it has been in avoiding hitting into double plays. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4071/strike#ixzz4sm3QNnWy |
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Post by Rog on Sept 15, 2017 14:33:56 GMT -5
The argument can be made until HELL freezes over, and the LA announcers made it, that Posey has not had the opportunities and blah, blah, blah...because of players having a down year. Horse sh__ _! That's what I think of that argument. And Panik has had more? Hitting mostly 2, 6, 7 or 8 hole? I don't think so. Rog -- No. Buster has had more opportunities. He has also had more RBI's. It isn't where a batter hits that is important so much as the chances he has. The two are related, but simply looking at where the batter hits in the order doesn't come close to painting the entire picture. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4071/strike?page=1#ixzz4sm9pJAON |
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Post by Rog on Sept 15, 2017 14:38:12 GMT -5
How can Crawford, 5,6 hole mostly, have 70 RBIs with as terrible a year as he's having? Rog -- The only thing Brandon is having a horrible year in is drawing walks. His batting average of .245 is only six points below his career mark, and his .397 SLG is three points higher than over his career. It's his .295 OBP that is awful, and if anything, that gives him more opportunities to drive in runs. Brandon has bounced back nicely from a very slow start. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4071/strike?page=1#ixzz4smHjK2wY |
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 15, 2017 14:57:47 GMT -5
Not quite true, Rog.
Until the last couple of weeks, for most of the year, he was hitting in the .220's
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Post by Rog on Sept 15, 2017 15:17:14 GMT -5
Rog -- Brandon has bounced back nicely from a very slow start. Boly -- Not quite true, Rog. Until the last couple of weeks, for most of the year, he was hitting in the .220's Rog -- Wouldn't that indicate Brandon has bounced back pretty nicely? I guess I should have been more clear about when his bounce back came, but I think we all know it has been recent -- much like Joe Panik, although I believe Joe bounced back a little earlier. One player you have acknowledged as having a fine bounce back is Gorkys Hernandez. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4071/strike#ixzz4smREstnFRead more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4071/strike#ixzz4smR6votS |
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 15, 2017 18:06:14 GMT -5
Not questioning that he's rebounded, Rog, just that for most of the year, he was NOT the hitter he is now.
boly
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Post by Rog on Sept 16, 2017 0:51:13 GMT -5
Not questioning that he's rebounded, Rog, just that for most of the year, he was NOT the hitter he is now. Rog -- I think we should usually look at the season as a whole. If anything, we might want to emphasize the most recent past -- especially if there was an extenuating circumstance earlier in the year. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4071/strike#ixzz4soms76Bd |
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 16, 2017 9:49:50 GMT -5
I won't argue that.
But that belies the point that he got most of those RBIS when he was way below his norm.
boly
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Post by Rog on Sept 16, 2017 10:10:55 GMT -5
I won't argue that. But that belies the point that he got most of those RBIS when he was way below his norm. Rog -- Your point is more true than I realized, Boly. Even when Brandon wasn't hitting well overall, he was driving in runs. Last season though, he drove in only 23 runs in the second half after driving home 61 in the first. Surprisingly, he drove in only 13 of his 84 runs in April and September. He drove in 46 in June and July alone. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4071/strike#ixzz4sr2I6dsH |
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