|
|
Post by Rog on Jun 4, 2017 1:55:16 GMT -5
After the game today Marty Lurie presented an intriguing plan for the Giants to get well by next season. Here are the pieces:
. Trade Cueto and Melancon (and Nunez and even Span if it can be worked out) for an outfielder and young starter if possible.
. Sign free agent Lorenzo Cain over the winter.
. Put Tyler Beede in the rotation.
These moves would be highly cost effective and would likely leave the Giants with a fair amount of money to supplement the moves above.
The Giants would then be left with Law as their closer. (Maybe some of the money would be used for a more proven end-of-gamer.) They would have a rotation that included Beede and the young starter they trade for. They would still have Posey and their home-grown infield including Arroyo. They would have Pence, Cain and the outfielder they get in trade or via free agency, building a more stable outfield.
Essentially the strategy would be to get some value in return for their potential free agents, then use the money saved to fill in a hole or two via another trade or preferably free agency. I think the concept is excellent. Executing it would be a challenge, but possibly doable. The strategy would be to fill any left-over holes via free agency. Excellent free agent classes are expected both this winter and next.
.
|
|
|
|
Post by klaiggeb on Jun 4, 2017 9:16:44 GMT -5
A simple plan yes...a smart plan?
No.
Lurie wants trading for a starter to be a priority, and I ask, why?
Move Cueto and you have:
Bum
Blach
Beede
Moore
Samaradzija
As 4 and 5 starters, Moore and Jeffy ain't bad
But the bigger question for ME is, how come when Lurie says it, he's smart?
When I suggest the same thing, I'm an idiot.
I was bashed and poo-pooed here for suggesting that we could get a lot in return for Cueto.
Now Lurie suggests the same thing... and it's a great, albeit simple, plan, that we should follow.
But let's recap here:
1-I "over valued our players"
2-Why would another GM want "to take our problems?"
A 6th starter is NOT a priority.
A bat is!
And if hitters DON'T want to sign in SF, what in the freaking WORLD makes Lurie think Cain would want to come here?
I'm sorry, Rog, but just because he has a column and I don't doesn't make him smarter or a better baseball man than Me.
And once again I point out that like most writers it's HIGHLY DOUBTFUL he ever played the game beyond little league.
Why does that make his OPINION worth ANYTHING, and mine, "uninformed and silly?"
boly
|
|
|
|
Post by Islandboagie on Jun 4, 2017 12:42:01 GMT -5
Rog always values the opinion of a journalist or anyone in broadcasting over a fan that has followed the game longer. This has been well documented for years.
As for Marty Laurie, I'm not a fan. He's obviously a true fan of the game, but he doesn't often delve deep into the Giants. He's more in tune with casual fans...he talks mainly about him growing up, playing little league, eating cracker jack. It's cute little early to mid 20th century Americana infused with baseball talk. The older casual fans love it I'm sure. It's barbershop radio. I can see the attraction there, but it's not for me.
As for his "plan" it's a good one. Only because he focused on players I want gone, and he mentioned Lorenzo Cain, whom is one of my favorite non-Giants. He would be a perfect addition.
|
|
|
|
Post by klaiggeb on Jun 4, 2017 18:53:18 GMT -5
No question, boagie, I'd love Lorenzo.
I just can't see a bat signing with us.
Can't.
You want Cueto gone?
I'm curious; why?
Me?
I'm all for by passing that useless Moore in the rotation for a turn or two, and running Beede out there.
Can't do much worse.
Then of course, we have "give it up Kontos on stage... giving it up again!"
boly
|
|
|
|
Post by Rog on Jun 5, 2017 1:54:20 GMT -5
My comment was: "Executing it would be a challenge, but possibly doable." Here are some of the factors involved: . If Cueto begins to find it again, a team would be willing to give more up for him because he would be more valuable and because the risk of being caught for four years with a failing pitcher would be much less. How much could they get for him? I'm not sure. I think though that if they could package him with Melancon to a team such as the Nationals, they might get a decent return. The Nationals have a very good foursome in their rotation, but Joe Ross has returned from injury and not yet found his groove as the fifth starter. Now, if the Giants can add another starter, so much the better. I don't think Lurie was opposed to trading Jeff Samardzija, as an example. And even if they keep him, relying on Jeff, Moore and Beede based on what they've done this season would be risky. And I'm almost certain that as unhittable as Blach looks at times, hitters will hit him somewhere along the line. Let me ask you this: Who is the last pitcher with 3.5 strikeouts per nine innings you can think of who was successful? That 3.5 strikeouts is less than HALF the major league average of 8.2 per nine. Sooner or later some of the balls he pitches to contact on are going to find holes. Ty has given up only a .250 BABIP (.300 is average), and he's going to give up more hits and home runs (7.1% home runs on fly balls compared to the average of 10%) in the future. When we think of a pitcher who pitches to contact successfully, we often think of Greg Maddux. But in Maddux's last truly good season of 2002, he struck out 5.3 batters per nine compared to a major league average of 6.5. Greg's strikeout rate was more than 80% of league average. Ty's is half that high. Meanwhile, Beede has a 4.28 ERA in AAA, and his strikeout ratio is only 6.0 per nine. Tyler has struck out only 1.8 batters per walk. That shrieks back of the rotation or even long reliever. Tyler has fared better in previous seasons, but that was a lower levels of the minors. In other words, he's got a ways to go. He just turned 24, so he's still a prospect. But there are other players in the organization who thankfully seem to be passing him. A rotation of Bumgarner, Moore, Samardzija, Beede and Blach could work. But I wouldn't count on it. As for the Nationals' bullpen, Koda Glover was doing a fine job of closing -- until today, when he yielded five runs in a third of an inning. The Nationals held on to win, and sometimes closers seem to pitch poorly in non-save situations (which this was). But if Ross and Glover don't come through, the Nationals could see a tandem of Cueto and Glover as the final pieces in a World Series champion. Lurie spoke of adding a starter and an outfielder. Getting both would be a tall order, although if the quality were OK rather than excellent as with Robles, it might happen. The point was that I felt Marty put things in nice perspective, for me at least. As for Marty, I'm sorry guys, but he knows a lot more baseball than we do. He has years of tapes with great former major leaguers that some have suggested should become a part of the Hall of Fame. Marty had the guts none of us have shown, leaving the legal profession two decades ago, armed with his tape record and determined to make a career in broadcasting baseball. There are simply things he knows that we don't have access to. I heard an MLB.com writer (on Marty Lurei's pre-game show yesterday) say that this was the best Nationals team he had seen, even better than their 98-win team. They hit like crazy, and their pitching isn't bad. Unless they think they're already good enough or can't afford the added salaries of Johnny and Melancon, they might crave such a deal. Badly enough to give up top prospect center fielder Victor Robles? I can tell you that Mark and I would be absolutely thrilled, and the Giants would have what might be their center fielder of the next 10 years. Marty didn't mention Robles or the Nationals, but he did put things in perspective I think. Can the Giants truly get value in return for Cueto and Melancon? That is the key. Would they want to go forward without Melancon as their closer? Lots of questions, but if the stars were properly aligned, who knows? Notice that I mentioned that Marty wanted to trade "for an outfielder and young starter if possible." Some of what I wrote was a combination of what he said and my own pyramiding off of it. I heard only about five or 10 minutes, so I wasn't totally clear on his plan. I simply thought that overall it was good. As for his idea of signing Cain, it made sense for just the reason Boly said that it wouldn't happen. POWER hitters don't want to come to AT&T because it would limit their power. Just ask Brandon Belt. But Cain isn't a power hitter, and he bats right-handed. Plus AT&T doesn't affect righties as much as it affects left-handed hitters. Cain has 45 homers in his eight-year career. He's more a speed guy, and AT&T defensively rewards outfielders with speed. And Cain has been a very good defender. In addition, as a speed outfielder, Cain might be looking at the last big contract of his career, which would make him less likely to be opposed to AT&T's hitting problems. He also might be interested in winning another World Series. No plan for the Giants' problems is going to be easy to execute. But I thought Marty had some good ideas. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/3900/simple-plan#ixzz4j6gaBj6x Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/3900/simple-plan#ixzz4j6c7wFRd |
|
|
|
Post by Rog on Jun 5, 2017 2:02:01 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by Rog on Jun 5, 2017 2:03:00 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by Rog on Jun 5, 2017 2:04:44 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by Islandboagie on Jun 5, 2017 10:20:11 GMT -5
Rog- As for Marty, I'm sorry guys, but he knows a lot more baseball than we do.
Boagie- That's debatable. Marty hasn't been following the Giants as long as anyone here has. From all accounts that I know of, he didn't play beyond little league. Just because he interviews players, doesn't make him more knowledgeable about the game.
Rog- Marty had the guts none of us have shown, leaving the legal profession two decades ago, armed with his tape record and determined to make a career in broadcasting baseball.
Boagie- Didn't Don see combat in world war 2? I don't think switching professions is more gutsy than being on a battlefield. And you have no clue what the rest of us have had to endure in our lives. These kind of comments just further proves my point that you automatically put anyone in broadcasting and journalism on a pedestal without really knowing the facts.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rog on Jun 6, 2017 15:22:06 GMT -5
Marty now knows even more about the Giants than we do. He's been covering them for the better part of a decade now, and he's privy to information we aren't.
As for his courage, I agree it has nothing on Don. I was stating that he had the courage to give up a lucrative career to pursue his love.
As for your knowing what I do, Boagie, you are making your comments -- to use your own words -- "without really knowing the facts." Am I right?
|
|
|
|
Post by donk33 on Jun 7, 2017 0:06:16 GMT -5
Rog- As for Marty, I'm sorry guys, but he knows a lot more baseball than we do. Boagie- That's debatable. Marty hasn't been following the Giants as long as anyone here has. From all accounts that I know of, he didn't play beyond little league. Just because he interviews players, doesn't make him more knowledgeable about the game. Rog- Marty had the guts none of us have shown, leaving the legal profession two decades ago, armed with his tape record and determined to make a career in broadcasting baseball. Boagie- Didn't Don see combat in world war 2? I don't think switching professions is more gutsy than being on a battlefield. And you have no clue what the rest of us have had to endure in our lives. These kind of comments just further proves my point that you automatically put anyone in broadcasting and journalism on a pedestal without really knowing the facts. dk...I never took any fire on a battlefield....I took a hit with friendly fire in the states that cost us 6 wounded....I did everything I could to get into combat but it never happened..We got chased all over the Atlantic by German subs .I spent 4 months in Europe but the fighting soon ended after I landed and I spent more time playing ball in Germany and France.....I volunteered to go to the Pacific and the war there ended as we were on the sea...My Pop and brother saw combat duty and I was picked to march in the official victory parade...such is life.... |
|
|
|
Post by Islandboagie on Jun 7, 2017 22:22:44 GMT -5
Rog- As for your knowing what I do, Boagie, you are making your comments -- to use your own words -- "without really knowing the facts." Am I right?
No, you're not.
I didn't say anyone knew any more than anyone else, and I also didn't claim anyone was more gutsy than anyone else. I don't know Marty Lurie personally, and while I know some things about some of you, I don't know enough to claim someone has shown more or less guts.
All I know is you do tend to automatically assume someone that works as a journalist or broadcaster knows far more than a fan of the game, because you've stated it many times here before.
In a lot of instances you might be correct. They do get the benefit of talking to people within the game on a regular basis. But you're not dealing with the average Joe when it comes to the people on this board. We're die hard, lifetime fans. I watch just about all the games, I read a lot of the articles and watch interviews and commentary. I haven't been doing this for a decade like Marty, I've been doing it for four decades, and I'm the youngest one here!
You know what's funny about all my years following baseball and the Giants? After all the interviews, commentary and games...I've probably learned the most from this board.
When I listen to KNBR, read articles from the McCovey Chronicles..etc etc..I often see topics we've already covered here.
So, while Marty might have a fair amount of baseball knowledge, his show doesn't cover nearly the amount of topics we've covered here. Just look at the history of all our posts, Rog. And and how long was Marc's board up before they took that down?
|
|
|
|
Post by Rog on Jun 8, 2017 8:47:06 GMT -5
All I know is you do tend to automatically assume someone that works as a journalist or broadcaster knows far more than a fan of the game, because you've stated it many times here before. Rog -- You don't know that. That's your opinion, and it's based on your own interpretation. They don't automatically know more than we, but they usually know more because they are exposed to more. I'm reading Tim Kurkjian's book, and he writes about how much he's learned from the guys he's worked with and around. In particular he writes about how much he learned from Buck Showalter, who he says sees things in games that no one else he has come across sees. Do I respect the knowledge of journalists and announcers? I certainly do. Not automatically, but because many (not all) of them show they understand the game, and in many if not most cases they have inside knowledge we don't have access to. In addition, baseball is their JOB. They spend more time at it than we. Most journalists and announcers know more baseball than you, Boagie, and they know more than I. You likely know a LOT more about your field than they or I do. Frankly, we overrate ourselves here. We tend to react with more emotion than knowledge. Which isn't to say that we have no knowledge, or isn't even to say we don't have more knowledge than most fans. And we may not react with more emotion than most fans. But we usually react with more emotion than knowledge. That is often part of being a fan. Thinking we know more than we do is probably part too. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/3900/simple-plan#ixzz4jPy8QQxt |
|
|
|
Post by Rog on Jun 8, 2017 9:21:39 GMT -5
I haven't been doing this for a decade like Marty, I've been doing it for four decades, and I'm the youngest one here! Rog -- Marty's profession has been baseball for two decades, not one. This is his 20th year. And what makes you think before he became a professional that he didn't study baseball at least as much as we? You're been following baseball for four decades. Marty has been following it for six, two of them professionally. Here might be a fair comparison of your baseball knowledge compared to Marty's. When Marty began baseball as a profession, he likely know at least as much baseball as you know right now. On top of that he's had the advantage of two decades in the profession, during which time he likely learned more than he did in the previous four decades. Marty knows stuff off the top of his head that we as an entire group don't know. Marty certainly isn't perfect. A couple of years ago I sent him an e-mail about asking Willie Mays if he could have played shortstop for the Giants and likely done a very good defensive job at that position. Willie did play shortstop in the army. Now, Marty must get a ton of e-mails, and now he likely gets even more in other forms of media, so I can understand why he didn't immediately realize the implication of my comment. And what was that implication? Much as they had extremely talented first basemen (Bill White, Orlando Cepeda and Willie McCovey), they had a ton of good to very good outfielders. If Willie had played shortstop -- and played it well, as I believe he could have, based in part on my having watched him take infield practice many times as he frequently did before games -- the Giants could have played and kept more of those good outfielders. In the sixties, the Giants often finished within a few games of the pennant (usually because of the Dodgers). Having an additional bat in their lineup might have made the difference. You know a lot about baseball and the Giants, Boagie, but you don't give those sixties teams their due. Perhaps if Mays had played shortstop, they would have won more pennants and World Series and you would have. Your comments about the 1962 Giants were ridiculous. They lost the World Series ON A LINE DRIVE, for crying out loud. Off the bat of Willie McCovey, one of the game's best hitters. And yet a guy who was forced to play as a platoon player that season because the Giants had Orlando Cepeda and a bunch of other very good hitters. One would have thought that with first base open and McCovey as a potential run that meant nothing, the Yankees would have walked him intentionally. Maybe they should have. But another future Hall of Famer -- Cepeda -- was on deck. That my good friend Boly compared last year's team favorably to that 1962 Giants team was laughable. That you criticized the team was ridiculous. To bring this full circle, Marty Lurie has seen enough baseball and has good enough judgment that I'm almost positive he never thought last year's Giants team was better than the 1962 version. He knew how to keep them in perspective, even as they did win a ton of games. Which they of course followed up by losing a ton later. Maybe I just don't write very clearly. I certainly don't take the time to edit what I write. But I also don't think you and others here read what I write closely enough. You think for instance that I underrate Brandon Crawford, yet I believe he is one of the top 10 defensive shortstops of all time. I may overrated him in that regard, but I honestly don't think so. If I do overrate him, it's because my perspective of the game is Giants-oriented. I also admit that Brandon has hit better the last three seasons than I thought he would hit. I never thought he would be a horrible hitter. I merely stated when his OPS at San Jose was over 1.000 that he wasn't going to be nearly as good a hitter as his OPS indicated. I thought he would hit more like he has over his entire career, although not with as much power as he has demonstrated. He's averaged over a base and a half per hit, which may not be exceptional by today's shortstop standards, but which is very good historically for the position. I didn't expect that. One other thing I really had no way of knowing. Brandon has been a very good clutch hitter. He has done by far his best hitting with runners on base and in scoring position. He has hit well in high-leverage situations. About the only key situation he hasn't been very good in is late and close, and even there he seems to have gotten a lot of key hits. Let's just say I have a much more objective opinion of Brandon than you have of Carlos Beltran, Boagie. Than Boly and Randy have of Brandon Belt. Than Don has of Buster Posey. As much as I like him and as much as I know about Tim Lincecum, I had a pretty balanced view of him too. And, yeah, I do know a little about baseball. I was the one here who saw that no fewer than three times in his two All-Star innings in 2009 he failed to cover first base properly. I'm the guy who liked him the most, yet I was the guy who saw what to the best of my knowledge no one else in any venue has commented on. Was it a huge thing? Compared to how well Tim pitched that season, no. But it was fundamental baseball in which he was failing, which seemed important to me. I'm going to guess that if Buck Showalter was watching that game -- heck, he may have coached in it for all I know, and he was almost certainly watching -- he didn't miss that. Although even Buck can't see EVERYTHING that takes place on a baseball field. But according to Tim Kirkjian, he sees things no one else Kirkjian has come across sees. And that's one of the reasons Kirkjian knows more baseball than we. How are each of our baseball books going? Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/3900/simple-plan?page=1#ixzz4jQ0pL3wO |
|
|
|
Post by Islandboagie on Jun 8, 2017 13:40:16 GMT -5
You don't know in what capacity Lurie has followed baseball prior to his employment with KNBR, why do you pretend like you do? This is why I make these comments, Rog, you're defending him like he's your son. It's pathetic.
You like him, I get it. I'd expect you would like him. He has a very broad stroke on the game -much like yourself- referencing text books, Ken Burns and barbershop banter...not first hand experience.
I'll be honest, I don't listen to his show that often because when I do listen I don't learn anything interesting that I don't already know.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rog on Jun 8, 2017 14:49:13 GMT -5
So, while Marty might have a fair amount of baseball knowledge, Rog -- Yeah, he might. Or he might have a LOT of baseball knowledge. Let me ask you this, Boagie. Have you interviewed hundreds of key baseball figures -- both current and historically -- as he has? Do you think your knowledge of baseball history is anywhere close to his? Is it possible that by talking to guys like Bobby Evans and Bruce Bochy and by going down on the field and talking to players he knows things you and I don't? I once watched a Warriors writer Jeff Chapman play in a Warriors pre-season game with the team. He was the first on the floor warming up, and I have to say I was impressed with his level of play. I'm thinking that he's a lot better than I thought he was. And in fact, he WAS better than I had thought. But then the REAL Warriors took the court, and the difference was obvious. He wasn't even in the same league (literally). That's kind of how a guy like Marty Lurie or Tim Kirkjian is compared to us. They literally play in a different league. As an aside, with the Warriors on the verge of NBA history, we know their color announcer Jim Barnett is a fairly knowledgeable guy. I had the privilege of refereeing him in a rec league game about a dozen years ago. Around age 60, he STILL did a few things I had never seen in a rec league game (even having refereed other former NBA players). I called him for a travel, and he didn't even yell at me (although he would have when he played in the NBA). At halftime I talked briefly with him. I asked him if he knew what he did the time he stole the ball and had only Wilt Chamberlain between him and the basket. He replied, well I probably did so and so (don't remember quite what). I told him that what he had done was to pump fake Wilt, who didn't buy it. And to fake him again. Still no sale. And then to put up a flat-footed finger roll that Wilt could have blocked with his elbow if he had realized it wasn't a pump fake. "Yeah, that's what I did!" Jim exclaimed. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/3900/simple-plan?page=1#ixzz4jQ9RdDlb |
|
|
|
Post by Islandboagie on Jun 8, 2017 20:17:29 GMT -5
Rog- Is it possible that by talking to guys like Bobby Evans and Bruce Bochy and by going down on the field and talking to players he knows things you and I don't?
Boagie- This statements feeds right into my argument that the players and coaches understand the game more than stat geeks.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rog on Jun 8, 2017 20:47:24 GMT -5
Rog- Is it possible that by talking to guys like Bobby Evans and Bruce Bochy and by going down on the field and talking to players he knows things you and I don't? Boagie- This statements feeds right into my argument that the players and coaches understand the game more than stat geeks. Rog -- Depends on the stats geek -- and which area of the game one is discussing, don't you think? You think players and coaches know more than Theo Epstein? In some areas I'm sure they do. But if I were trying to build a franchise, I would use Theo over any player or coach of whom I am aware. You know the biggest fault in your logic here, Boagie? You think that because I understand anayltics better than anyone here, I automatically don't know the game as well as you do from a traditional standpoint. Do you think I forgot all I learned in my first 40 years of following the game and all I have learned about the game not including statistics just because I have followed analytics too? Of course not. When I was your age, I understood the game more or less as well as you do now, and that was before I learned of other ways to see the game. Why would I forget all that stuff? While I was reading Kirkjian's book, he mentioned Terry Francona's managing Michael Jordan in 1994. It brought back my memory of the following winter when Michael took batting practice in the Scottsdale area with just him and three others around. Chris Speier was throwing batting practice to Michael. A reporter from Newsday was there. And my dad was in the outfield shagging flies. At the age of 70. You don't think I learned any baseball from my dad (among others)? You don't know what the heck you're talking about. My dad was involved enough in baseball that the Giants put up a tribute to him on the Candlestick scoreboard the day after he died. You're way off base, Boagie. I like you, and I think you're a good guy, but you act as if you know things that you know little about. Including Carlos Beltran. Some men see what they want to see -- and disregard the rest. Personally I try to take in as much as I can -- and guys like you try to put me down for doing so. Makes little sense. You and I could go watch a game, and I would see just about as much as you do. Yet you seem to lose all that when I bring up analytics. Why do I bring up stats so often? Because they're facts -- something the board is fairly light on overall. Facts support opinions. Many of our opinions here are top-heavy. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/3900/simple-plan#ixzz4jSri6TIB |
|
|
|
Post by Islandboagie on Jun 8, 2017 21:35:15 GMT -5
Why are you upset? Why am I way off base? I merely said that I'm not sure Lurie was more knowledgeable about the game than a fan who has been following it their entire lives. I'm not the one stating something without knowing the full truth, you are.
This might come as a shock to you but you don't know Marty Lurie. You don't know how much he knows and if he knows more than Don, Boly, yourself, Randy or I. Don has a very long history of being a fan, as does Boly. Boly was a coach, as far as I know Marty wasn't. You've umpired a lot and you understand the metrics better than anyone I've ever conversed with, on those two topics I'd guess you would know more than Lurie.
I don't have the history of behopefully that Don does, but I've been a pretty loyal follower since the mid to late 80's. That's roughly 30 years of dedication. 30 years of dedication to something usually means you're pretty darned good at it.
If I were to sit down with Marty Lurie I think we could talk a lot of baseball on a pretty even level. He might talk about some things that would educate me on the game more, and I'm certain I have experienced things that he hasn't.
That's what's great about baseball, Rog. It spans generations, it brings those generations together. A ten year old can talk to an 80 year old about baseball because the game hasn't changed much, there's still a common ground. Baseball to me isn't about who knows more, or obscure statistics, or meeting players...that really means nothing to me because I'm not a name dropper. I have met players, I've talked with them...eh, I'm not really a star struck type guy.
But Rog, if you want to get personally offended, I suggest we just agree to disagree.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rog on Jun 9, 2017 7:38:47 GMT -5
You don't know in what capacity Lurie has followed baseball prior to his employment with KNBR, why do you pretend like you do? Rog -- I don't pretend. Immediately prior to joining the Giants, Marty did similar work for the A's. When he gave up being an attorney 20 years ago, he went out with a tape recorder and interviewed as many of the old-time baseball players as he could. Marty is the only non-player, manager or coach I know of who saw Willie Mays' famous throwing out of the Dodgers' Bobby Cox at home plate on what virtually everyone in the park thought was clearly going to be a sacrifice fly. The throw was one of the most famous and might have been the best throw of Willie's career. Willie had a special event a while back and asked Marty to host it. That's more than a tiny bit of respect from more than a tiny bit of a good ballplayer. Why do you pretend that you know that I don't know in what capacity Lurie has followed baseball prior to his employment with KNBR? Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/3900/simple-plan#ixzz4jVXaaXuZ |
|
|
|
Post by Rog on Jun 9, 2017 7:42:46 GMT -5
You don't know how much he knows and if he knows more than Don, Boly, yourself, Randy or I. Rog -- Of course I do. Just in the hundreds of interviews of players and people around the game -- from the first half of last century through now -- Marty has had the chance to learn a ton of things you and I haven't. You are trying to say I'm acting out of ignorance, when it actually is you who are doing so. Do I know everything about Marty Lurie? Absolutely not. But I know one heck of a lot more about him than you do. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/3900/simple-plan?page=1#ixzz4jVa4pZke |
|
|
|
Post by Rog on Jun 9, 2017 7:45:57 GMT -5
A ten year old can talk to an 80 year old about baseball because the game hasn't changed much Rog -- There is truth to what you're saying here. It is also true that major league baseball has changed a TON in recent years. And it's also true that most 10-year-olds don't have a deep understanding of the game. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/3900/simple-plan?page=1#ixzz4jVb3i0tc |
|
|
|
Post by Rog on Jun 9, 2017 7:47:56 GMT -5
I suggest we just agree to disagree.
Rog -- Not a bad concept, but I find that it is used a lot by people who haven't much inclination to agree and have even less to support their argument. I'm not saying either is the case here.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rog on Jun 9, 2017 7:49:40 GMT -5
I don't know about you, Boagie, but if I could spend an evening with Marty Lurie, I would learn a TON. He would likely learn a thing or two from me as well, but not NEARLY as much as I would learn from him.
|
|
|
|
Post by Islandboagie on Jun 9, 2017 13:19:03 GMT -5
Rog- Why do you pretend that you know that I don't know in what capacity Lurie has followed baseball prior to his employment with KNBR?
Boagie- because you only gave one instance where Marty Lurie followed baseball prior to his employment with KNBR. Being at one game and seeing one throw doesn't exactly prove your point. You're only guessing.
|
|
|
|
Post by Islandboagie on Jun 9, 2017 13:36:43 GMT -5
Rog- I don't know about you, Boagie, but if I could spend an evening with Marty Lurie, I would learn a TON. He would likely learn a thing or two from me as well, but not NEARLY as much as I would learn from him
Boagie- I'm sure I'd learn something. However, I have a feeling I'd learn more from Don, because I don't know how much Lurie knows prior to 20 years ago. Don has actually witnessed a longer history of baseball than Lurie.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rog on Jun 9, 2017 17:49:06 GMT -5
Boagie- I'm sure I'd learn something. However, I have a feeling I'd learn more from Don, because I don't know how much Lurie knows prior to 20 years ago. Don has actually witnessed a longer history of baseball than Lurie. Rog -- IMO you're confusing apples and oranges. Don is a great fan with more historical baseball knowledge than anyone here and a nice knowledge of the game and particularly the Giants on top of that. Lurie is a professional. He knows baseball history that goes back about as far as Don's memory because Marty has interviewed stars and influential baseball people all the way from the first half of last century through today. Don was around, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't at the game where Willie made one of his most famous defensive plays, throwing out Billy Cox from fairly deep right field after catching a long drive on the dead run. No one expected a throw, let alone one that would catch Cox, who wasn't particularly fast, but certainly wasn't slow, having stolen 10 bases in 1952. Don is a very good fan, like we pretty much all are here. Lurie is a profesional who goes on the field and who talks baseball with someone in the industry many more days than not. Apples and oranges. But you already know this if you've been paying attention. Maybe Lurie doesn't know more than you, Boagie, but he certainly knows more than I -- and about 99% of all Giants fans. Speaking of fans, the fan who presented Rod Beck his on-field award in the last season at Candlestick as the San Francisco Giants' top reliever said that my dad -- yeah, that guy; the guy who taught me baseball -- would have been on the field giving Chris Speier's award as the best SF Giants shortstop to Chris. I can't imagine it any other way. When my dad passed away, each of us kids and grand kids got to keep something of his. I chose Chris's bat from his final game, made out to my dad. My son, by the way, chose my dad's ball glove and Giants hat, which are still on the top shelf in his old room at home. But yeah, Boagie, I'll readily concede that Marty knows more baseball than I. Perhaps if I knew more than, Willie Mays would have chosen me instead of Marty to emcee his baseball evening among Giants fans. Of course, he would have had to know me too in order to do so. If you know more than Marty, Boagie, I certainly defer to you. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/3900/simple-plan#ixzz4jY0MBwV7 |
|
|
|
Post by Islandboagie on Jun 9, 2017 22:06:04 GMT -5
Rog- Maybe Lurie doesn't know more than you, Boagie, but he certainly knows more than I -- and about 99% of all Giants fans.
Boagie- I consider everyone on this board in the 1 percentile. Maybe that's why you can't fathom my opinion here, you're selling yourself and the board short.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rog on Jun 10, 2017 20:45:35 GMT -5
Rog- Why do you pretend that you know that I don't know in what capacity Lurie has followed baseball prior to his employment with KNBR? Boagie- because you only gave one instance where Marty Lurie followed baseball prior to his employment with KNBR. Being at one game and seeing one throw doesn't exactly prove your point. You're only guessing. Rog -- Come on, Boagie. Marty was a young kid, and it was his first game. He lived in Brooklyn, so I'm guessing he was a Dodgers fan. Marty fell in love with the game enough that 20 years ago he gave his livelihood and career to it. It's pretty easy to extrapolate, isn't it? And Marty starts out by recording old-timers in the game? Does that sound like a guy who hasn't loved the game and its history? You're playing dumb here, Boagie. And you're not. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/3900/simple-plan#ixzz4jebhj0BD |
|
|
|
Post by Rog on Jun 10, 2017 20:49:55 GMT -5
Boagie- I'm sure I'd learn something. However, I have a feeling I'd learn more from Don, because I don't know how much Lurie knows prior to 20 years ago. Don has actually witnessed a longer history of baseball than Lurie. Rog -- Because Lurie has become essentially a baseball historian, I suspect you'd learn more history from him. My sense is that Marty has more BROAD knowledge of baseball history, while Don's is more specific to the Giants and Dodgers. But where Marty knows a ton more than Don (or any of us) is in RECENT history. Marty gets to talk to the players, coaches and Bruce Bochy, an advantage none of us enjoys. Why the heck are you arguing something where virtually all the evidence points against you, Boagie? As I used to say when I refereed, let's just argue the close ones. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/3900/simple-plan?page=1#ixzz4jeceXmc1 |
|
