Cain and Crawford

[klaiggeb]

I'm posting this at 0800 Saturday morning, well before this evening's game.

I'm not sure I'd run Cain out there with that hamstring.

He may say he 'feels' fine, but I've had hamstring problems... and it may 'seem' that it's not there... but that tweak he felt? Oh, my.

That is a real thing.

A pulled muscle is really a 'torn' muscle, and that tear doesn't heal in 5 days.

Hamstrings are funny things.

Won't surprise me at all if Cain lasts an inning or three... and then goes on the DL.'

Same with Crawford.

Yeah, we need him, but a groin muscle is much like a hamstring; what might seem minor, isn't.

And a SS MUST have that 'burst' to get him to balls and make the play.

I'd DL Crawford retroactive, for 10 days.

When he comes back, I want him as near to 100% as can be.

I do NOT want to see a set back that could have been avoided occur... which I predict is highly likely.

But they won't DL him or Cain.

They'll play both... and then pay the price.

Not smart.

Not smart at all, IMHO.

Spend the time NOW on the DL, not later, or have it nag him/them all season long.

boly

[sfgdood]

I've had pulled muscles very often...they are VERY different from tweaks. I've never torn a muscle but I'd have to believe they are even more painful than pulls and especially tweaks. I played through tweaks with no problems. Matt is not an everyday player. If he was, I'd be more worried. He never has to run. I'm perfectly fine running him out there every fifth day.

[klaiggeb]

Randy, as a doctor and trainer once told me a muscle "pull" is a misnomer. A "pull" is a tear in the muscle fiber. People use the word "pull" because it doesn't sound as bad.

Now if you're referring to just a momentary 'tweak,' where the muscle hurts for a moment, but isn't really hurt, that's something different.

But make no mistake about hamstrings and pitchers; they/we DRIVE off of that back leg and if you've hurt that muscle, as Matt did last year in Colorado, it takes time to heal.

I'm hoping you're right, but I'm pretty sure you're not.

boly

[Rog]

Boly is correct that a pulled muscle is indeed a tear, albeit a small one. At least that's how I understand it. Just as there are different degrees of a tear, there are also degrees of pull to the muscle.

The really little tears can be treated with ice, and one that is a little bigger can be treated with ice and rest.

I mostly played through even fairly deep pulls when I was younger. Now I would need to be much more careful. I remember doing what I thought was pulling my hammy I made a sharp cut in football, and I could do little more than limp. It was almost certainly a tear. It probably would have done better with ice, but when I was young, I didn't even know about ice. After maybe a week and a half I slowly bent down to pick something, and I heard what sounded like a water melon dropped on the sidewalk. My first thought was that I had done something horrible.

But apparently the slight stretch broke loose the blood-engorged tear, and when I stood up, the worst of the problem was gone. I wasn't completely well, but I could move much more normally.

I did what I suspect was a big pull but not a tear one day when I was older. I iced it while watching a Raiders game and then took an Epsom salt bath. I was amazed that I had virtually no symptoms the next day. I had expected close to a week of problems.

The point about the quick movement of a shortstop is a good one, and a pitcher like Cain can put a lot of strain on his hamstring pushing off during his delivery. One thing that helps a lot is that the players get the very best of care, which can speed up the healing process. I don't know if they use hyper-whatever it is chambers as athletes in other sports do, but if anyone can come back quickly, it would be they.

From the outside there is little way we can judge the situation, and even on the inside they make misjudgments. Sometimes the player simply wants to play and isn't completely honest.

Heck, when I was young, I just wanted to play -- period. I thought I was indestructible and could play through an injury, almost no matter how bad it was. In truth, I likely hurt myself in the long run with that approach.

[klaiggeb]

Then again, the way Matty pitched, looks like I was wrong.

Big time wrong!

and I'm okay with that.

boly

[Rog]

Today's medical and training staffs can do a LOT these days. And Matt likely wasn't hurt TOO badly.

[sfgdood]

and yet you tried to put me down when I said the EXACT same thing. Geez

[Rog]

and yet you tried to put me down when I said the EXACT same thing. Geez


Rog -- To begin the fourth post in this thread I posted "Boly is correct that a pulled muscle is indeed a tear, albeit a small one. At least that's how I understand it."

How is that a put-down of you, Randy? And to pick nits, what I posted WASN'T the exact same thing you posted. You made no mention of medical and training staffs.

I did a little studying and couldn't find anything that was truly definitive, but I believe that a pulled muscle involves at least micro tears. The tears in a muscle or tendon can be anything between that and a full tear. We've all played through a slightly pulled muscle. It's more than a tweak in that the pain doesn't necessarily go away quickly. But it's damaged merely to the point where if one is careful, he can usually play through the (slight) injury without significantly further damage.

Of course the problem with that approach can be that in the "heat of the battle," one doesn't necessarily think of the injury in the moment. It's easy to hurt the muscle more. But I would say that more often than not I was able to play my way through the slight injury without seeming to cause much further damage.

The bad hamstring injury I described above wasn't a full tear, which I'm presuming wouldn't heal on its own often if at all. But it was enough of a tear I know I wasn't going to play any more that particular day. And it eventually became apparent I wasn't going to play for a bunch of days.

The weird thing about that one was that when the "dropped watermelon" sound was made, it wasn't a horrible thing as I feared. Rather it was an indication that the swelling had gone down enough to break up the blood and fluid. Afterward I would say it felt like a bad pull of the muscle, but it was an entirely different situation from when the muscle was essentially constricted and almost certainly partially torn.

Anyway, Randy, I didn't mean to put you down, and I'm sorry I made my comment ambiguous enough that you felt that way.




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[Rog]

One thing I would disagree with Boly on (and didn't pay enough attention to the first time around) is that a pulled muscle can't heal in five days. I mentioned in my post where I had a pull that felt like it would last a while, but I somehow was able to get it to where I could do normal activities the following day without feeling any pain. My guess is that the actions I took helped speed up the healing process (which removing inflamation will do) and that thus the "tear" became less of a tear by the following day.

I would think that today's trainers and doctors can speed up healing by more than we were able to do "back in the day."

Incidentally, when I posted about the "overnight" injury, I didn't think I was putting Boly down. I thought I was merely citing one particular example of a muscle pull healing much more quickly than I expected. Our experience has told us that the more extreme the pain, the longer the muscle is likely to take to heal. There are likely exceptions to that, but I think it's a general rule.

I hope Boly didn't feel put down, and I don't think he did. And again, as I stated in the post you found offensive, Randy, I am basing this solely on my own understanding.

And clearly Matt WAS able to come back strongly in time for his next turn. That was likely a combination of the injury's not being as severe as Boly's was and the improved treatment of it.

Not quite sure what happened to Matt his next time out. It doesn't appear Matt will get back to what he once was, and it seems likely this will be the final season in what has been a very good Giants career. Matt may have a losing record, but for most of his career he has been anywhere from good to very good. Despite Matt's various levels of struggles over the past five seasons (including this one), he has a lower career Giants ERA than Tim Lincecum.