WBC

[Rog]

The United States, featuring Giants Buster Posey, Brandon Crawford and Mark Melancon, beat Japan tonight, 2-1, and will play Puerto Rico tomorrow night for the WBC championship.  The Giants' win was exciting, but it is last night's Puerto Rico-Netherlands game I want to talk about.

Puerto Rico beat the Netherlands, coached by Giants batting coach Sir Hensley Meulens, 4-3 in 11 innings.  One could call it the Yadier Molina game, although Yadier didn't figure in any of the scoring.  Rather, it was his world-class glove and throwing arm that prevented the Dutch from scoring more than three runs.

After the first two Netherlanders reached in the first inning, Yadier picked the lead runner off second base.  He then recorded the second out by picking off Juricson Profar at first base after Profar had singled the runner remaining after Yadier's original pick off over to third base.  Profar was egging on his dugout and fans when Molina chose the moment to throw to first base just before the casual Profar's foot reached first base.  Profar never knew what hit him.

The plays became key because they immediately preceded Wladimir Balentien's two run homer.  Balentien, who has  become a monster in Japan after an unsuccessful four-year major league career with Seattle and Cincinnati, later scored the Netherlands' third run after his double hit the top of the fence and just missed being another home run.  In 2013, Balentien hit 60 of them in the Japanese League.

So when was the last time you remember the first two outs of a game coming on catcher pick offs?

Mollina was the final cog in a tremendous relay play begun by ex-Giant Angel Pagan that prevented a fourth run from scoring.  As he often did with the Giants, Pagan barehanded a double off the wall and fired to the cutoff man as he fell down from the momentum of his twist back toward the infield.  He overthrew the first cutoff man, shortstop Andrelton Simmons, but hit second cutoff man Javier Baez nicely.  

In a throw reminiscent of Brandon Crawford's best relay throws and perhaps delivered a tick more quickly, Baez's short-hop throw to Molina was right on runner Jonathan Schoop.  Schoop's lead fit bounced over the plate, as is the wont of many of today's runners, and the throw essentially took Schoop right into it.  All Molina had to do was hold onto the throw, but with ball and runner arriving almost simultaneously, that was no small task.

Apparently Molina has been playing out of his mind in this tournament, and while it isn't the major leagues, no doubt these spectacular plays will be remembered by some of the Hall of Fame voters when they decide if Yadier's defense is good enough to carry his good-for-a-catcher bat into baseball immortality.  The emotions run higher in this tournament of national teams, and Yadier's excitement was a driving force for the fans and his teammates.  

Later in the game he also helped keep order when Edwin Diaz knocked down Balentien on an 0-2 count.  Balentien had three hits in the game and was intentionally walked.

Of course we'll be rooting for the USA, but the excited play of the Puerto Ricans makes it hard to root against them.

Some sidelines:

.  Lots of Giants connections in the game.  Pagan played left field for Puerto Rico, and Meulens managed the Dutch.  Former Giants' farmhand Shairon Martis pitched a couple of innings for the Dutch.  Martis is the only pitcher ever to throw a no-hitter in the Classic, a feat he accomplished in 2006 while he was still the property of the Giants before they traded him to Washington, for whom he had a brief three-year career.  Also, Jonathan Schoop is the brother of another former Giants farmhand, shortstop Sharlon Schoop.

.  Baez remains the most exciting player I've ever seen.  His throw was rapier quick, spectacular, and right on the money.  He and shortstop Francisco Lindor formed a keystone combination rivaled defensively only by the Giants' Crawford and Joe Panik.  The Puerto Rican duo is more spectacular; the Giants' pair is more solid.

.  The Puerto Rico-Netherlands featured two shortstop whose defense is about as good as any pair who have ever met.  Simmons and Lindor are two of the best defensive shortstops ever.  Announcer John Smoltz said Simmons has the best shortstop arm he's seen "in a long time," and Lindor is the best two-way shortstop in the game, an honor he has taken over from Crawford.  

.  The USA team has Crawford, while the Japan team also featured what is in their country called a Golden Glove shortstop.  In fact, the entire Japan infield had each won at least one Golden Glove.  Their starting pitcher too.  And their catcher, who threw out Adam Jones trying to steal, led his division in caught stealing percentage this past season.  Surprisingly though, both US runs were aided by Japan miscues.

.  The Netherlands featured a 7-foot-1 minor league pitcher, the tallest ever play professional ball in the US.

.  The shortstops for Puerto Rico and the Netherlands are so good defensively, they forced Carlos Correa (Puerto Rico) and Xander Bogaerts (Netherlands) to third base.  Strange to see two accomplished major league shortstops moved from their positions.

If I went back and watched that Puerto Rico-Netherlands game again while sitting at the computer, I could almost write a novella about all the intriguing things that happened in it.  It certainly increased my already healthy respect for Molina.  And re-introduced me to Balentien.

I'm not sure why, but 21-year-old Ruthian phenom Shohei Ohtani isn't on the Japanese roster.  Ohtani, who wants to come to the US to play, is Ruthian in that he was named both the best Japanese pitcher and their best hitter when he won the Most Valuable Player Award in Japan.  Ohtani posted a 1.86 ERA in 140 innings and hit .322 with a 1.004 OPS as a designated hitter.

I'm not sure exactly how Ohtani will be used once he comes to the US, but it would seem he will be among the most exciting players.  When you're the best hitting AND the best pitcher, you're pretty darn valuable.  No one since Babe Ruth has had the ability to do both things so well.  I don't know if Ohtani can field or run, but he can certainly hit, hit with power and throw with the best of them.

The US and Japan play the championship game tomorrow night at Dodger Stadium.  I believe the game will start at 6:00 outrtime, and it will be televised on the MLB Network.  Worth a watch even though Posey won't be starting at catcher tomorrow night.  He could possibly DH.

The shortstops playing third base aren't the only players being used in different ways.  Melancon pitched the eighth inning tonight and was even relieved when he got into trouble.  Luke Gregerson had already been designated the closer for the US.

The game is played with much more emotion by the Latin teams, and it's a total kick.  I can't remember seeing baseball teams having this much fun.  It's fun to watch.  I'll be recording the game tomorrow night.  With three championships as a Giant (and two for Crawford), it would be nice for Buster to win a different type of championship along with Brandon.

The US team is so deep that it alternates catchers between Buster and Jonathan Lucroy, and tonight Eric Hosmer played first base while Paul Goldschmidt watched.  If you've got Goldschmidt and Posey on the bench, you've got a lot of depth.

Former Duke Blue Deval Marcus Stroman goes for the US tomorrow night.  Stroman pitched to a 4.37 ERA for the Blue Jays last season, but he was at 3.68 the second half.  Stroman doesn't strike out a lot of batters, but he's one of the game's most ground ball oriented pitchers.  Last season 60% of balls put in play against him were ground balls.  Not sure I agree with it, but last August, Fan Graphs published an article entitled:  "Marcus Stroman, Best Pitcher in Baseball."  I can't agree (although I hope they're right tomorrow night), but the article concluded "He may just be the perfect pitcher. The best in baseball? It’s certainly possible, at least while Clayton Kershaw remains sidelined."

Kershaw won't be pitching for the US tomorrow night.  Neither will Madison Bumgarner. But Stroman will, and Melancon might.

[klaiggeb]

I just want the stinking thing OVER!

For me, it is a massive waste of time, and the POTENTIAL for injury is not worth the risk;

In other words, for ME, the juice is not worth the squeeze.

boly

[donk33]

Mar 22, 2017 4:13:30 GMT -5 Rog said:

The United States, featuring Giants Buster Posey, Brandon Crawford and Mark Melancon, beat Japan tonight, 2-1, and will play Puerto Rico tomorrow night for the WBC championship.  The Giants' win was exciting, but it is last night's Puerto Rico-Netherlands game I want to talk about.

Puerto Rico beat the Netherlands, coached by Giants batting coach Sir Hensley Meulens, 4-3 in 11 innings.  One could call it the Yadier Molina game, although Yadier didn't figure in any of the scoring.  Rather, it was his world-class glove and throwing arm that prevented the Dutch from scoring more than three runs.

After the first two Netherlanders reached in the first inning, Yadier picked the lead runner off second base.  He then recorded the second out by picking off Juricson Profar at first base after Profar had singled the runner remaining after Yadier's original pick off over to third base.  Profar was egging on his dugout and fans when Molina chose the moment to throw to first base just before the casual Profar's foot reached first base.  Profar never knew what hit him.

The plays became key because they immediately preceded Wladimir Balentien's two run homer.  Balentien, who has  become a monster in Japan after an unsuccessful four-year major league career with Seattle and Cincinnati, later scored the Netherlands' third run after his double hit the top of the fence and just missed being another home run.  In 2013, Balentien hit 60 of them in the Japanese League.

So when was the last time you remember the first two outs of a game coming on catcher pick offs?

Mollina was the final cog in a tremendous relay play begun by ex-Giant Angel Pagan that prevented a fourth run from scoring.  As he often did with the Giants, Pagan barehanded a double off the wall and fired to the cutoff man as he fell down from the momentum of his twist back toward the infield.  He overthrew the first cutoff man, shortstop Andrelton Simmons, but hit second cutoff man Javier Baez nicely.  

In a throw reminiscent of Brandon Crawford's best relay throws and perhaps delivered a tick more quickly, Baez's short-hop throw to Molina was right on runner Jonathan Schoop.  Schoop's lead fit bounced over the plate, as is the wont of many of today's runners, and the throw essentially took Schoop right into it.  All Molina had to do was hold onto the throw, but with ball and runner arriving almost simultaneously, that was no small task.

Apparently Molina has been playing out of his mind in this tournament, and while it isn't the major leagues, no doubt these spectacular plays will be remembered by some of the Hall of Fame voters when they decide if Yadier's defense is good enough to carry his good-for-a-catcher bat into baseball immortality.  The emotions run higher in this tournament of national teams, and Yadier's excitement was a driving force for the fans and his teammates.  

Later in the game he also helped keep order when Edwin Diaz knocked down Balentien on an 0-2 count.  Balentien had three hits in the game and was intentionally walked.

Of course we'll be rooting for the USA, but the excited play of the Puerto Ricans makes it hard to root against them.

Some sidelines:

.  Lots of Giants connections in the game.  Pagan played left field for Puerto Rico, and Meulens managed the Dutch.  Former Giants' farmhand Shairon Martis pitched a couple of innings for the Dutch.  Martis is the only pitcher ever to throw a no-hitter in the Classic, a feat he accomplished in 2006 while he was still the property of the Giants before they traded him to Washington, for whom he had a brief three-year career.  Also, Jonathan Schoop is the brother of another former Giants farmhand, shortstop Sharlon Schoop.

.  Baez remains the most exciting player I've ever seen.  His throw was rapier quick, spectacular, and right on the money.  He and shortstop Francisco Lindor formed a keystone combination rivaled defensively only by the Giants' Crawford and Joe Panik.  The Puerto Rican duo is more spectacular; the Giants' pair is more solid.

.  The Puerto Rico-Netherlands featured two shortstop whose defense is about as good as any pair who have ever met.  Simmons and Lindor are two of the best defensive shortstops ever.  Announcer John Smoltz said Simmons has the best shortstop arm he's seen "in a long time," and Lindor is the best two-way shortstop in the game, an honor he has taken over from Crawford.  

.  The USA team has Crawford, while the Japan team also featured what is in their country called a Golden Glove shortstop.  In fact, the entire Japan infield had each won at least one Golden Glove.  Their starting pitcher too.  And their catcher, who threw out Adam Jones trying to steal, led his division in caught stealing percentage this past season.  Surprisingly though, both US runs were aided by Japan miscues.

.  The Netherlands featured a 7-foot-1 minor league pitcher, the tallest ever play professional ball in the US.

.  The shortstops for Puerto Rico and the Netherlands are so good defensively, they forced Carlos Correa (Puerto Rico) and Xander Bogaerts (Netherlands) to third base.  Strange to see two accomplished major league shortstops moved from their positions.

If I went back and watched that Puerto Rico-Netherlands game again while sitting at the computer, I could almost write a novella about all the intriguing things that happened in it.  It certainly increased my already healthy respect for Molina.  And re-introduced me to Balentien.

I'm not sure why, but 21-year-old Ruthian phenom Shohei Ohtani isn't on the Japanese roster.  Ohtani, who wants to come to the US to play, is Ruthian in that he was named both the best Japanese pitcher and their best hitter when he won the Most Valuable Player Award in Japan.  Ohtani posted a 1.86 ERA in 140 innings and hit .322 with a 1.004 OPS as a designated hitter.

I'm not sure exactly how Ohtani will be used once he comes to the US, but it would seem he will be among the most exciting players.  When you're the best hitting AND the best pitcher, you're pretty darn valuable.  No one since Babe Ruth has had the ability to do both things so well.  I don't know if Ohtani can field or run, but he can certainly hit, hit with power and throw with the best of them.

The US and Japan play the championship game tomorrow night at Dodger Stadium.  I believe the game will start at 6:00 outrtime, and it will be televised on the MLB Network.  Worth a watch even though Posey won't be starting at catcher tomorrow night.  He could possibly DH.

The shortstops playing third base aren't the only players being used in different ways.  Melancon pitched the eighth inning tonight and was even relieved when he got into trouble.  Luke Gregerson had already been designated the closer for the US.

The game is played with much more emotion by the Latin teams, and it's a total kick.  I can't remember seeing baseball teams having this much fun.  It's fun to watch.  I'll be recording the game tomorrow night.  With three championships as a Giant (and two for Crawford), it would be nice for Buster to win a different type of championship along with Brandon.

The US team is so deep that it alternates catchers between Buster and Jonathan Lucroy, and tonight Eric Hosmer played first base while Paul Goldschmidt watched.  If you've got Goldschmidt and Posey on the bench, you've got a lot of depth.

Former Duke Blue Deval Marcus Stroman goes for the US tomorrow night.  Stroman pitched to a 4.37 ERA for the Blue Jays last season, but he was at 3.68 the second half.  Stroman doesn't strike out a lot of batters, but he's one of the game's most ground ball oriented pitchers.  Last season 60% of balls put in play against him were ground balls.  Not sure I agree with it, but last August, Fan Graphs published an article entitled:  "Marcus Stroman, Best Pitcher in Baseball."  I can't agree (although I hope they're right tomorrow night), but the article concluded "He may just be the perfect pitcher. The best in baseball? It’s certainly possible, at least while Clayton Kershaw remains sidelined."

Kershaw won't be pitching for the US tomorrow night.  Neither will Madison Bumgarner. But Stroman will, and Melancon might.

dk....2 thoughts about the WBC...last night the Giants Closer got removed as soon as he got in trouble....in a previous game, the USA had Posey hitting 7th...where I once proposed and got nothing but negative comments...

[Rog]

Because of the injury factor, I haven't been a fan either, Boly, but watching the Latin America teams in particular, I see why it's a good thing. I'm not a fan of showboating, but in the context of the WBC it seems to fit. You should watch Yadier Molina. Never have I seen him so engaged.

It's been a long time since I've enjoyed a non-Giants game as much I enjoyed the Puerto Rico-Netherlands game. I had no idea the Netherlands even HAD a decent team. But after Jurickson Profar's first hit, he was hitting .542 and after Balentien's home run, he was hitting .609. And Balentien went on to get two more hits.

Is Hensley Meulens that good a hitting coach?

Two things baseball I never thought I would enjoy -- fantasy baseball and the WBC. Now fantasy baseball is one of my favorite pursuits, and what little I've seen of the WBC has been a lot of fun. The WBC has the high quality of play of the majors but more of the fun aspect for fans of the minor leagues.

I'm a HUGE Yadier Molina fan now! You know what a great guy Bengie is? I think Yadier is indeed cut from the same cloth. And of course, Yadier is clearly more talented, even though Bengie himself was no slouch.

That relay play by Puerto Rico was about as good as I've seen. And the way Yadier picked off Profar was amazing. Kind of like a hidden ball trick play, except that everyone knew who had the ball -- including Profar. It's just that the last thing in the world Profar was expecting was a throw.

Watching Lindor play, man the guy is good on both sides of the ball -- and on the base paths. I wonder if there has ever been as great an ALL-AROUND shortstop. Of course, Lindor has played only a season and a half, but I think he's the real deal. It has been rare in baseball history to see a defensive shortstop as good as Brandon Crawford, but there are three who are certainly at least close -- and two of them played in the WBC, both in the Puerto Rico-Netherlands game.

I suspect the MLB Network will be replaying the Puerto Rican/Dutch game. It's worth a watch. One of the most entertaining games I've ever seen.

[Rog]

dk....2 thoughts about the WBC...last night the Giants Closer got removed as soon as he got in trouble....in a previous game, the USA had Posey hitting 7th...where I once proposed and got nothing but negative comments...


Rog -- I mentioed how with all the good relievers in the WBC, the relievers are used a little differently. As for Posey's hitting seventh, he's playing on what is essentially an All-Star team. In that situation, seventh probably isn't a bad place for him. One could argue for his batting a little higher, but I thought seventh was fine. Hitting him ahead of Hosmer and McCutchen wouldn't have been the end of the world, but I was fine with Buster hitting seventh and Brandon Crawford hitting ninth. Brandon, by the way, has enjoyed a wonderful WBC.




Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/3779/wbc?page=1#ixzz4c5nBXSDd

[Islandboagie]

dk....2 thoughts about the WBC...last night the Giants Closer got removed as soon as he got in trouble....in a previous game, the USA had Posey hitting 7th...where I once proposed and got nothing but negative comments...

Boagie- Let us know when the Giants sign Goldschmidt, Jones, Stanton and McCutchen, then it will be a viable argument.

[donk33]

Stanton and McCutchen have been pretty mediocre since their injuries.....but I guess your saying that all 4 of those players are going into the HOF.....,

[Islandboagie]

I forgot to mention Arrenado (sp?)

You're right that Mccutchen and Stanton weren't at an MVP level last season, but they were still more productive than most of the Giants hitters, and it is a new season, I think most would suspect them to bounce back.

But this isn't about them, this is about your ongoing mission to delegitimize Buster Posey. You've gone to every level in an attempt to have people see it your way. You have attacked his hitting and his defense, you even went as far as to say his teammates don't like him. Your posts on Posey are about as credible as the ramblings of a mental patient.

I wish you saw things differently, Don. Posey in my opinion will go down as one of the greatest Giants of all time, and you will have completely missed out on it.

[Rog]

.but I guess your saying that all 4 of those players are going into the HOF.....,


Rog -- No you don't guess that at all. You're much smarter than that. You're merely beingcontentious, Don.




Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/3779/wbc#ixzz4cAgGPdqy

[Rog]

McCutchen should bounce back about halfway. I don't think he was great long enough to become a Hall of Famer.

With Stanton, it's a question of health. Can we believe he has never been healthy enough to hit 40 homers in a season?

As for Posey as a Hall of Famer, it's almost a foregone conclusion -- even though his hitting is probably overrated. Because the Giants have no one better, he has the legacy of batting cleanup. While he isn't a truly powerful hitter, he hits for an exceptional average for a catcher. Overall his hitting is excellent for a catcher.

He's know as a character guy, a leader and a handler of pitchers. His overall defensive skills are very good, and he's one of the game's best pitch framers.

I'm not sure what Don doesn't like, but it has really gotten to the point of, who cares? As you say, Boagie, Don is missing out. I guess I care because I hate to see Don miss out, but at this point no one is going to change his mind.

There are a few other Giants who are also under-appreciated here. Some here would say I under-appreciate Denard Span. But I don't.

They misinterpret my saying he is a platoon player for not appreciating him. While some here are unsure whether he should lead off, I think he's fine as a lead off hitter -- against right-handers. Denard is a completely different (and lesser) player against southpaws. Denard is OK; he simply needs to be used correctly. He hasn't been, and that's why Bleacher Report just ranked him as the #28 center fielder in the game.

The Giants have an issue right now in that they don't have a proven platoon partner for Denard. That's why I've been hoping Ruggiano can be the guy. Randy says Justin can play center field satisfactorily, but he hasn't hit at all this spring. Gorkys Hernandez is a fine fielder, but he too has had a tough spring, and unlike Ruggiano, has never shown he can really hit.

Back to Buster and the WBC batting order.

First, Buster DID bat ahead of Stanton against Japan. That's a pretty good endorsement.

Second, when Lucroy was in the lineup, Jonathan was moved down to ninth.

[Rog]

By the way, after being extremely excited by the Puerto Rico - Netherlands game, I thought the championship game last night was boring. I did like the way they covered Shairon Martis' no-hitter. What a tremendous achievement by a player who never did much in the major leagues.

[klaiggeb]

I guess, then, I'm the lone dissenter.

All I can see is the possibility of a team losing a key component for their season.

Would ya'all still be excited about the WBC IF Posey or Crawford had gotten hurt badly enough to miss a month of play?

I think not.

boly

[Islandboagie]

You're not alone, Boly. I didn't watch a single game. Of course, I don't have the MLB Network anymore so that made the decision easy.

Then again, I know they were playing on the MLB Network, so my curiosity did go that far, but not enough to pay to watch it.

[donk33]

Mar 23, 2017 10:12:07 GMT -5 Islandboagie said:

I forgot to mention Arrenado (sp?)

You're right that Mccutchen and Stanton weren't at an MVP level last season, but they were still more productive than most of the Giants hitters, and it is a new season, I think most would suspect them to bounce back.

But this isn't about them, this is about your ongoing mission to delegitimize Buster Posey. You've gone to every level in an attempt to have people see it your way. You have attacked his hitting and his defense, you even went as far as to say his teammates don't like him. Your posts on Posey are about as credible as the ramblings of a mental patient.

I wish you saw things differently, Don. Posey in my opinion will go down as one of the greatest Giants of all time, and you will have completely missed out on it.


dk...I'm not trying to "delegitimize" Posey as a ball player, just as a catcher.... he just goes against everything I have always liked as a catcher and of a 3 or 4 hitter...It is really irritating to me that ever since Posey has been on the scene I have been critical of his catching and the board has been ready to put him into the HOF...and now the board says I'm wrong and that Posey is much improved....improved from your raves, or maybe your raves were overboard....anyway here is what I didn't like about Posey as a catcher and how he stands today...in my opinion.....
     He is (quoting the Giants' brass) never on the same "page" as the Giants' pitchers... he puts numbers down until the pitchers finally agree with his sign...sorry, I just never saw a pitcher get the "shake off" as much as Posey...it was that way from game one and continues today....Affeldt was kidding the other night during the Giants'  TV when he said that Posey had trouble catching his curve so he never signed for it....I think it was true with him and others with different pitches. He continued to go into the fetal position when pitchers threw inside breaking balls to LH hitters...as one visitor announcer said, "I never saw a catcher do that"...he has improved lately but I still don't see too many pitches called low and inside against LH...I still cringe when I see Posey jump up out of his squat to catch a ball in the dirt...he has improved some on this but pitchers very seldom bounce a breaking ball when he is the catcher.
    His primary target on almost all hitters is low and outside...unless the count is  0-2 and he calls for a high fastball..  and I have been saying since he joined the Giants that he must be setting up too far off the plate as I continue to see the pitch hit his glove and the ump call it a ball...his framing  is highly over rated because if he holds a pitch where he catches it, the Umps call it a ball....that has not changed one bit and I think the so called experts who came up with this new stat is well off base....
    His throwing is very erratic as he tends to drop down to 3/4's and his throws sail towards RF...His caught stealing record is over stated because he gets credit for pitchers picking runners off base....also, Bochy seems to call for a lot of pitch outs to give Posey a better chance ... 
    He was given a big advantage of not catching certain pitchers who offer a big challenge to catchers as far as wild pitches and passed balls...Tim is gone and so is the biggest problem of catching him.
    I don't see any of the leadership he has always been credited with...he sits behind the plate and watches as a pitcher gets shelled until the pitcher calls him out or Rags leaves the dugout...this continues today... I almost never see Posey try to stir things up in the dugout...not everyone can be a Pence, but a leader should be able to stir a little..
    His hitting is too streaky for me to be a 3 or 4 hitter...he can go way too many games with fewer bases/hit than what Burriss would put on the board..
    He gets too many rest days, especially during a close race...the Giants started to use him more last year, but it still is a factor... this is hard for me to say because there are days he was needed behind the plate because of the inexperience of Brown...with Hundley it shouldn't be a problem.......although, Brown had a great  game the other day...threw out 3 baserunners and blocked several pitches in the dirt...I think he has a shot but not with the Giants...no one commented on Brown...,.
    


   

[Rog]

He is (quoting the Giants' brass) never on the same "page" as the Giants' pitchers..


Rog -- You're going to have to cite your source on that one, Don. It goes against just about everything I have read from the Giants' brass or from others.




Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/3779/wbc#ixzz4cGG3W9yc

[Rog]

His primary target on almost all hitters is low and outside..


Rog -- I can't remember a catcher whose primary target WASN'T low and outside. That is the toughest location for batters to hit.




Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/3779/wbc?page=1#ixzz4cGGgGtJ5

[Rog]

Tim is gone and so is the biggest problem of catching him.


Rog -- I'm not positive, but I think I looked this up once, and Tim had less frequent wild pitches with Buster than with the other Giants catchers.

Remember, Buster's combination of wild pitches and passed balls has been about half the rate of the other Giants catchers during his career. That I HAVE looked up for sure.

If you're so sure of this stuff, Don, look it up. It can be tedious work, but without it, you don't truly know if you're right or not.

As a board, I think we could do better at not just THINKING something, but researching our opinion to see if it right or not.

Saying something is true simply because someone has watched a lot of baseball isn't enough. That attitude unfairly disparages the opinions of others who have also watched a lot of baseball. It's a selfish attitude.

We can EACH be wrong. And each of us has been at times. That's why studying to back up our opinions is important. If we don't, they're simply opinions. Isn't it better to have confirmed opinions? That's still not the same as a fact, but it's a whole lot closer than an unsubstantiated belief.




Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/3779/wbc?page=1#ixzz4cGH9sWAF

[Rog]

He gets too many rest days


Rog -- Buster tied for fourth in games stated at catcher last season. Only one catcher had as many as seven more starts there than Buster. You did mention that he caught more games last season, and you are correct. In previous seasons he started fewer games behind the plate for various reasons, including injuries to Brandon Belt.

The concept in previous seasons has been to give him more "partial" days of rest by playing first base or DH so that he could start a higher number of total games.

One can see something of a reverse correlation between Buster's catching starts the past two seasons and the games and playing level of Brandon Belt. In 2015, Belt played missed the last couple of weeks of the season, and Buster caught nearly full time. He finished in a tie for 11th in games started. Last season Belt stayed healthy and highly productive, and Buster started 19 more games behind the plate.

First you say that Buster shouldn't be catching at all; here you say he isn't catching ENOUGH. I realize the points you are making in each case are different, but the logic has to be a little questionable, doesn't it?

[Rog]

no one commented on Brown...,.

Rog -- I'll comment on Trevor. Like Buster, he came to catching late. Unlike Buster, he isn't nearly the same hitter and hasn't taken to catching as quickly.

I think it's a good thing for Trevor to go to Sacramento this season and work on his hitting and catching. Long term, I think he could be a decent backup. Depending on how long Hundley plays for the Giants, Trevor might wind up replacing him.