you guys need to get out here

[sfgdood]

It had been WAY too long since I'd been to Spring Training and I have to tell you, it just rejuvenates me...makes me feel young again like when I first went to the Stick as a boy. LOVED talking to stoked Giants fans and even Indians fans happy that they weren't home in 21 degree Ohio. Goodyear has a pretty nice ballpark and one of the Tribe fans I sat next to turned me on to a great BBQ joint nearby called Rudy's. It is leGIT!

As for the game...Belt was the only regular in the lineup other than maybe Nunez. No pitchers who will make the opening day roster entered the game until Kontos pitched the 8th and Law the 9th. Suarez gave up 2 runs in less than 3 innings but he did have a lot of swing throughs. Overall I thought he looked poised. Much better than the Tribe starter, Tomlin, who gave up a LOT of loud contact.

Hwang looked good except for booting what should have been a sure double play ball in the 9th. That made it a little hairy for Law, who then had to retire the final two hitters with the tying run at 2nd. Parker looked VERY good, hitting it hard every time up. Nunez looked solid and fresh. I even liked what I saw from the big oaf. If he keeps that up all season, he'll drive in a crap ton of runs and I'll need to give him a new nickname. Ruggiano looked great in his first AB, not so much after that. Gillaspie made a stupendous diving catch of a line drive late in the game. Brown and Tomlinson looked out of wack.

[Rog]

Glad you're having a great time, Randy. You're right. Spring training is a heck of a kick.

Any word on which players the Giants are leaning toward keeping?

You're OK with Belt even though he didn't homer? Think Parker's good K/BB ratio might have been a leading indicator for what he's doing now?

I know we don't think the Giants spend enough on free agents, but I came across an article that showed that aside from the Dodgers, the Giants have spent more money on players of free agent experience than any other team in baseball. They were somewhat limited in what they could spend this off-season, but they seem to have not only solved the big closer problem, but added a few inexpensive pieces that may pay dividends.

Pretty sure the Giants have money available for deadline trades to fill whatever holes aren't yet filled or materialize between now and then. As it is, I think they'll open the season with close to half their roster new since 2015. It's getting down to the core guys, a few holdovers, and a lot of guys who are new in the past two years.

Please let us know what you think of him if you see reliever Neil Ramirez. I'm intrigued by him. One of the best relievers in the game in 2014 and thus far having a great spring. He strikes guys out, but he also has control issues. I'm guessing he starts the season in Sacramento, but he looks like a guy who'll be up at some point.

[sfgdood]

If Belt takes advantage of his RBI opportunities, I can live with the low HR totals, particularly if some others pick up the slack. I don't know why Parker is doing well but man the ball just JUMPS off his bat like a super ball.

Someone was saying that Morse will either be a Giant this year or he will retire. I wonder if that means he'll accept an assignment to Sac.

At THIS moment, here's what I hope the Opening Day Roster will be (subject to change):

Pitchers: Bum, Cueto, Moore, Samardzija, Cain (I don't really hope this but I don't think anything but an injury will prevent it), Melancon, Law, Strickland, Osich, Gueren, Hernandez, Okert.

Catchers: Posey, Hundley

Infielders: Belt, Panik, Crawford, Nunez, Hwang, Hill

Outfielders: Pence, Span, Parker, Morse, Ruggiano

[klaiggeb]

Personally, Randy, I'd rather keep Tomlinson than Hill.

Hill can't run, and can't hit like Kelby can, although for what it's worth, Hill does have more pop.

Not enough for me to go with him, though.

Don't know if you saw the article today... but Bobby Evans was talking, or rather, hemming and hawing, about Cain... and how he still has time, but...

That 9+ ERA, and he said that, though his command was better, he's still UP, with almost everything.

Not exactly a rip roaring vote of confidence.

Personally, I think it will be Blach who DESERVES the job, but I also believe they'll at least start the season with Cain in the 5 spot... and when he proves, as I believe he will, that he can't do it... he'll be cut, traded, or, if he'll accept the move, sent to SAC to work it out.

But if I'M RUNNING the show... If Cain DOESN'T get significantly better, he opens the season in SAC until he PROVES he can throw low strikes and do it consistently, as he once did.

boly

[Rog]

Blach didn't exactly "Ty" the job down today. He's a guy who can pitch -- but has to do so with little margin for error.

Cain has been lousy, but it's also possible the Giants will open with him (I thought he might be on the DL) and if things don't go well, use the time to see if Beede not Blach might be the best guy.

As for Matt's going to Sacramento, he would certainly clear waivers. If no one else offered him a major league spot, perhaps he would go to Sacramento. Or maybe he'd simply retire.

[sfgdood]

Ty's a starting pitcher, not accustomed to coming in out of the pen. After the first 3 or 4 hitters, he was ok

[Rog]

I want to point out how well Ty had been pitching prior to yesterday's game. Then I'd like to compare how we are treating him to how we're treating George Kontos.

We say Ty's a starter and that he's not used to coming in out of the pen. Understandable. With the exception of one start, Ty had done his good pitching prior to yesterday coming out of the pen. He had been extremely effective last season and postseason coming out of the pen. But still, understandable.

Kind of like George Kontos' pitching early in spring training could be chalked up to its being early spring and his being able to work on things, since he doesn't really have to worry much about a job (unless a 2.90 career ERA just isn't good enough).

But with Ty we make the excuse; with George, we hammer him as it being just like always. Yes, a 27.00 ERA in one inning in spring training is kind of like a 2.90 ERA in 264 regular-season innings. Pretty much the same thing.

But let's simply get rid of the excuses and see how each guy has pitched. Very different, as it turns out, with each pitcher having strong positives and at least one concerning negative.

Ty was quite good until yesterday. He had struck out 9 in 9.1 innings. Better yet, he hadn't issued a walk. The 12 hits he had yielded in his 9.1 innings was a little disconcerting, but overall things had been quite good.

As for George, he's limited batters to a .130 average (less than half the .340 Ty has now yielded). George's primary problem has been that he has let two of the three hits go out of the park. And the one hit that wasn't a home run (as well as one of his three walks) came immediately before his first homer, meaning all three runs scored. Aside from that one inning and the other home run, he has yet to yield a hit, and neither of his two walks has come around to score.

George's other problem has been three total walks in his six innings. His ERA is 6.00, or just above Ty's 5.56.

It is in WHIP as well as batting average that we see how much more encouraging George's outings have been than Ty's. George's is an excellent 1.00, while Ty's is a struggling 1.50.

The bottom line -- and I don't want to read TOO much into spring training stats -- is that George has pitched well but been bitten by the home run bug. If he keeps pitching this way, he'll give up far fewer home runs than 3.0/9. Ty has done an excellent job (especially for Arizona) in keeping the ball in the park, but he'll give some up over the course of the season.

Ty has the advantage of having shown great control -- not a single walk. With a career 2.6 walk rate per nine innings, George hasn't been much bothered by walks.

Nor has George had particular trouble with home runs, yielding only 0.8 per nine, clearly below the league average of 1.0.

To take an overall look (which is what the Giants should be doing), George has had a little problem with walks and especially home runs. The home runs, in particular, are to be expected in the thin air of Arizona. The walks will be something to keep an eye on, but nothing that has truly bothered him over his six-year career.

Ty has done a great job of getting the ball over the plate and keeping it in the park, but giving up a hit and a half per inning is disconcerting. On the other hand, Ty turned his 2016 season around when he began keeping the ball in the park. In June alone, he yielded six home runs and a 4.70 ERA. But in July and August, he gave up only one in 67 innings, posting a combined ERA just under 2.25. With the Giants in September and October, he was even better, giving up only one home run and two earned runs in 20.1 innings.

Ty's second-half success came from limiting home runs, but perhaps even more so from limiting hits themselves. In those final 89.1 innings with Sacramento and the Giants, he gave up just 59 hits. That's two hits every three innings. That's why his hit and a half per inning this spring is a concern.

To wrap up, both George and Ty have done some things quite well -- and others rather poorly. George has a fine six-year track record to fall back on. Ty has an outstanding second half of 2016 to look to.

The Giants are hoping Ty can become an effective fifth starter. They are hoping George can continue his excellent middle relief work. I could be wrong here, but my guess is that after yesterday, the Giants are a little more concerned about Ty than about George. It's easy to overlook more than a hit per inning when a pitcher has yielded only two runs in nine innings. It becomes a bigger concern when those hits grow to a full hit and a half per inning and the pitcher's ERA soars to 5.56.

For me, the bottom line is that both George and Ty have done just fine for half a spring. Some good, and some bad. Ty's is slightly more disconcerting because he had a poor outing LATER in the spring. But it was only one bad outing. Aside from that he's been pretty good.

We can blame Ty's troubles yesterday on his coming out of the bullpen. But there are a couple off issues with that logic. First, he has done just fine out of the pen, including two postseason outings. Second, he didn't come into the game in the middle of an inning, inheriting base runners. He was able to start his innings clean. In essence, he was able to warm up somewhat similar to the warm up he would have taken had he been the game's starter.

I don't see any true issues with either pitcher at this point. What I do see though is an issue in how we have reacted to them. We have made an excuse for Ty, while on the other hand, we have said that it was the same old, same old from a pitcher when his ERA was 27.00 compared to a career ERA of 2.90.

Hopefully both pitchers will pitch well this season. We haven't seen anything definitive to say they won't. But we seem to be treating them far differently. If we were giving the break to the guy with the long track record, I could see it. But when we're actually unfairly disparaging him, I'm a bit appalled.

Now, if we truly want to worry about a couple of guys, we might turn to Matt Moore's 5.71 ERA, .318 batting average and 2.00 WHIP. We might be concerned (Boly is) about Jeff Samardzija's 9.82 ERA, .371 batting average and 2.18 WHIP. But we're no more than two-thirds of the way through the spring games, so I don't think that is a huge concern yet either.

But I will say I'm more worried about Moore and Samardzija than about Blach and Kontos. The surprising thing is that only Kontos has proven to be an effective major league pitcher over a sustained period of time. Kontos might even be the worst of the four. But he's gotten the best results (if we include Ty's minor league work in with his brief major league career).

Just one question: How can we treat a guy with a 2.90 ERA like a piece of garbage? That's a lower ERA than Madison Bumgarner's career 2.99. George's 1.13 WHIP isn't much higher than Madison's 1.10. I'm certainly not saying George is as good a pitcher as Madison. What I am saying though is that their results have been similar.

Far too similar for us to be treating George the way we are treating him. If we're going to give the benefit of the doubt to rookie Ty Blach, why the heck aren't we giving it to proven veteran George Kontos?

We complain that guys haven't learned to pitch. Clearly Samardzija comes to mind. But George has learned to PITCH. Once a guy who struck out a batter per inning, he isn't quite able to strike out two batters every three innings now. That's a loss of stuff. Yet his ERA's the past three seasons have been 2.78, 2.33 and 2.53, even as his K rate has dropped to 7.5, 5.4 and 5.9.

I'm trying not to get so frustrated here. But it's hard when clearly there are prejudices against certain Giants players. I have been accused of not being a true Giants fan because once the Giants are out of it, I root for the National League and the National League West in particular.

I would offer that being unfair to a Giants player is far, far worse.

[Rog]

I haven't found the thread that mentioned Cam Bedrosian as not being as good as his father, Steve. That is almost certainly true, but Cam is an illustration of just how far relievers have come in the past 30 years.

Cam's career ERA is 3.78, and he didn't pitch even that well in the minors. Yet in AA in 2014, he struck out 57 batters in 32.1 innings over about two-thirds of a season at AA Arkansas. That's a strikeout rate of 15.9, and he accompanied it with an impressive 1.11 ERA and other-worldly 0.62 WHIP. He yielded an other-galaxy 2.8 hits per nine innings. Cam had been promoted from High A Inland Empire (a competitor of the San Jose Giants) after he struck out 15 of the 20 batters he faced there.

Last season Cam did a fairly good impression at the major league level too. His ERA was 1.12, and he struck out 15. At 6.7, his hits were higher but still excellent, and his WHIP was a very good 1.10. He yielded only one home run in 40.1 innings.

Cam's only once did his dad post an ERA (1.63) that came close to equaling Bob Gibson's record 1968 ERA as Cam did last season, and Steve never once stuck out as many as a batter per inning. In only three of Steve's 14 seasons was his ERA below 2.50, and Steve broke 3.00 in one fewer than half his seasons. When Steve posted a league-leading 40 saves 30 years ago, his ERA was 2.83.

My point isn't that Cam is better than his dad. Despite the 1.12 season, he hasn't yet shown that he is. My point is to show just how far relief pitching has come. One of the biggest differences is that middle relievers are no longer failed starters.

One thing I was thinking about during the night too is how much more range today's fielders have. It's much harder to get a ball through the infield or to fall in in the outfield. That's not to say today's pitchers aren't as good. They're better, especially in the bullpen. But especially with today's over shifts, today's batter face much bigger difficulties in getting a hit.

Despite that, today's hitters are hitting for averages very similar to Steve's day. And they're hitting with quite a bit more power. My guess is that their average exit velocity is significantly higher, although that wasn't being measured back in Steve's day. Today's pitchers are hard to hit, but they supply more of the batter's power. Plus today's hitters are stronger overall and their strokes are better coached. They have much more information as to how pitchers pitch to batters in general and to the specific hitter. In addition, they have the quick bats to handle today's much faster pitches.

[sfgdood]

My comment about Cameron Bedrosian was limited to what I saw on Wednesday

[Rog]

My comment about Cameron Bedrosian was limited to what I saw on Wednesday


Rog -- And we appreciated your sharing it with us. Amazing though, isn't it, how much better relief pitching has become?




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