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Post by Rog on Jan 19, 2017 18:21:14 GMT -5
Bleacher Report recently ranked the Giants with the sixth-best team in the majors, and with the fourth-best pitching staff. The Dodgers were ranked only 8th and 9th, respectively.
The teams ranked ahead of the Giants were the Cubs, Indians, Red Sox, Nationals and Astros. The pitching staffs the Giants trailed were those of the Red Sox, Indians and Cubs.
Thoughts on either?
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Post by klaiggeb on Jan 20, 2017 10:41:42 GMT -5
Ranked 6th is about right.
When one considers how beaten up we were last year, yet STILL came within what... 3 outs of going into the final game with the Cubs with Cueto on the mound...I would have liked our chances.
We come up with a left fielder...or if Mac or Jarret break out... we'll be tough to beat...IF we can avoid the massive injury bug again.
boly
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Post by Islandboagie on Jan 20, 2017 10:49:27 GMT -5
With the additions we made during last season and adding Melancon this off season, I think we'll be tough to beat with or without an upgrade in LF.
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sfgdood
Long time member 
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Jan 20, 2017 13:11:39 GMT -5
Im appalled that they make these rankings before ST even begins
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Post by klaiggeb on Jan 20, 2017 13:32:50 GMT -5
I agree, boagie.
I think the one thing everybody doing the rankings doesn't factor in... is the Bochy-Factor.
In spite of all that went on last year, as bad as it got during the 2nd half melt down... he still got us into the play offs, and within 3 outs of a winner take all game with Johnny C on the mound.
I'm STILL ticked at our players, but I DO admire how they never gave up and damn near pulled it off.
boly
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Post by Rog on Jan 21, 2017 2:29:05 GMT -5
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Post by Rog on Jan 21, 2017 2:32:03 GMT -5
I think the one thing everybody doing the rankings doesn't factor in... is the Bochy-Factor. Rog -- I think they do. Bruce is a highly respected manager. I read -- and posted about -- a comparison of the Giants and Pirates which gave the Giants most of the advantages and mentioned Bruce specifically. One could criticize Bruce for how he handled the bullpen in the ninth inning of game four with the Cubs. I've done so with significant logic, and I'm not one to criticize a manager very often. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/3697/giants-ranked-highly-bleacher-report?page=1#ixzz4WNYvdpsa |
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Post by Rog on Jan 21, 2017 2:33:40 GMT -5
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Post by Rog on Jan 21, 2017 2:34:55 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Jan 21, 2017 10:56:46 GMT -5
Rog -- If there truly is a strong Bochy factor, how did the Giants melt down in the second half? They were healthier than in the first half, and they had added Nunez, Moore and Smith.
Boagie- Samardjiza and the bullpen shit the bed during the second half. Matt Moore and Will Smith weren't very good until the stretch run.
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Post by Rog on Jan 22, 2017 12:42:24 GMT -5
I think we'll all agree that the bullpen was the biggest factor down the stretch. You know what was potentially another very surprising factor? Over his last nine starts of the season, Madison Bumgarner had a 4.66 ERA. As usual, Madison pitched well in the postseason, fashioning a 1.91 ERA.
But down the stretch of the regular season, as the Giants struggled to make the postseason, he wasn't very good. The best pitching down the stretch came from Johnny Cueto and perhaps surprisingly, Jeff Samardzija, Sergio Romo, Will Smith and Ty Blach.
The day Bumgarner entered his funk (August 18), began an intriguing period. After that date, Smith didn't yield a single run, and Cueto posted a 2.21 ERA the rest of the season (not including his one run allowed in the postseason). Samardzija had already begun a 2.51 run over his last 10 starts. Romo was in the early stages of his 1.42 run over his last 26 appearances. Blach would become a late-season hero, beating Clayton Kershaw on the penultimate day of the season and finishing with a 1.06 ERA in four September appearances, two of them starts.
The point here is that one never knows where the help will come from. Bumgarner struggled down the stretch, but five other pitchers helped pick up the slack.
Samardzija was mentioned as a poor second-half performer, and he certainly was. Over a period of eight starts, he was awful game after game. But he righted himself down the stretch. Bumgarner had been the anchor -- and would be again in the postseason -- but he struggled. Cueto was by far the Giants' most consistent starter and was rewarded with 18-5 record.
One last point: If Romo had continued his good pitching into the postseason, he might still be the Giants' closer. During the regular season, his ERA in close situations was just 1.93.
How a guy finishes up the postseason can significantly affect how he is viewed over the winter. Sergio is very unlikely to return, and a poor postseason had a lot to do with Joe Nathan's being traded away.
Romo was asked in mid September to be the closer and finished the season with four straight saves in six scoreless innings. But he blew a save in the postseason and allowed a hit to the only hitter he faced in that fateful game four of the Cubs series.
You know -- I have championed Will Smith as the guy who should have been called up to pitch the ninth inning of that game. I still think he would have been the best choice, but given how well Romo had pitched down the stretch, I'm not sure Bochy wouldn't have been well-served to give the chance to Sergio. Yes, Sergio's blown save of the previous day was all too fresh in our minds, but even with that effort, he had posted a 3.00 ERA since August 3. During that time, Sergio reduced his regular-season ERA by just one tick less than two runs.
One can imagine that Kris Bryant's home run against Sergio the previous day loomed large in Bochy's mind. He did throw 32 pitches, so perhaps he wasn't prepared to pitch a full inning. But just as I thought Cubs manager Joe Maddon over-managed with Aroldis Chapman in the World Series, so did Bochy with the Giants' bullpen.
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Post by klaiggeb on Jan 22, 2017 13:38:06 GMT -5
Madison had a decent year, no question.
But all year long he seemed to be fighting mechanics, and quite frankly, he WASN'T the Bum we were used to seeing.
boly
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Post by Rog on Jan 23, 2017 10:27:29 GMT -5
Intriguing. Despite the mechanical issues and poor finish, Madison easily set a career ERA mark of 2.74. He pitched a career high 226 innings, setting a career high. His strikeout rate rose for the fourth straight season, allowing him to easily a career strikeout mark. Because AT&T Park played as a much fairer park overall, his ERA+ soared to a career high. He once again pitched well in the postseason.
Now, to the results that would back up the mechanical problems. His walks were up. His fastball dropped by just over a mph. His percentage of hard-hit balls reached a career high. He benefited from a very large strike zone and from the best defense in baseball. The metrics that try to take fielding out of the ERA equation rose.
One could argue that Madison had the best season of his career. Once could argue it was a bit of a slide.
How do the rest of us view it?
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Post by Islandboagie on Jan 26, 2017 16:55:42 GMT -5
Madison has basically been the same guy since 2012. But last year he got burned by the bullpen more than a few times or he would have had close to 20 wins.
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Post by Rog on Jan 27, 2017 9:14:56 GMT -5
Seven times Madison left the game with the Giants, yet did not receive a win. At 4.85 runs per nine, the Giants gave him very nice offensive support. Madison likely received quite a bit of benefit from the Giants' fine defense and the pitch framing of Buster Posey, who caught Madison in all but one of his league-leading 34 starts.
As I recall, Madison is pretty good at holding runners on, and only four of nine base runners were successful in steal attempts with Buster catching. Surprisingly, the opposition was two for two in the brief time Trevor Brown was the catcher.
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