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Post by Rog on Oct 12, 2016 11:29:34 GMT -5
The quick hands that caught the dropped piece of bubble gum in the dugout was entertaining, but what gets me most is when Baez winds up on his back after making a play, and then when throwing the ball around the infield, the Cubs seem to just routinely short-hop the ball to him so he can catch it while still on his back or backside. And of course he just continues to throw it around the infield from that position too.
Have any of us seen anyone do some of the things we saw Baez accomplish in this series? I still think Andrelton Simmons is the best shortstop in the game (although I don't think that is nearly as clear-cut as it once was), but is that only because Baez plays second base?
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Post by klaiggeb on Oct 12, 2016 12:12:31 GMT -5
What I'll remember is what a hot dog and a jackass he is, Rog.
I'll also remember what a JACKASS Strickland was for throwing him a fastball!
boly
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Post by Rog on Oct 12, 2016 13:34:49 GMT -5
I'm from the old school of do something good, act like you've been there before. And if I'm picking players for the Giants, I'm not looking for a hot dog. That type of player wouldn't be likely to fit the club house.
But when it comes to watching the actual game itself, I love to watch great players. Javier Baez certainly hasn't reached that status yet, and he quite possibly, maybe even probably, won't do so. But defensively, he already seems like a great player.
I think Joe Panik is a very fine defensive player. One of the best second basemen in the game IMO. But Baez has an even quicker pivot, and he's as acrobatic as they come. Perhaps not in the clubhouse, but from a watching standpoint I wish he were a Giant. I can't think of any player whose defense has impressed me as much in a single series as Baez.
His watching balls instead of running them out is ridiculous. But the way he plays the field is amazing. That first play behind second base was perhaps the best play of its kind I had ever seen. And then he topped it, although Span was safe by an eyelash. He did drop the relay throw on which he might have caught Hunter Pence at third base had he caught it cleanly. But the biggest fault on the play was likely the low throw to him.
As for Pence on that play, that might have been the worst base running we've seen since Ruben Rivera. Incidentally, the Mendoza Line is actually at .215, and Ruben exceeded it by a single point over his career. To Ruben's credit though, his OPS was nearly 200 points higher than the pitcher-like .507 Mendoza posted.
For pure base running "amusement," Ruben may have been unsurpassed "in the history of the game."
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Post by Rog on Oct 12, 2016 13:36:26 GMT -5
In terms of being jackasses, Madison Bumgarner and Yasiel Puig rank right up there.
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Oct 12, 2016 16:09:43 GMT -5
I guess all this Cubs love makes Rog a fair weather fan
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Post by Rog on Oct 12, 2016 19:38:08 GMT -5
I guess all this Cubs love makes Rog a fair weather fan Rog -- Other than feeling that if a team beats the Giants, they must be good enough to beat anyone, I'm not especially a Cubs fan. In fact, in a way they're my least favorite in that I saw my first several big league games at Wrigley and naturally wanted them to lose to the Giants. My first baseball broadcasts were listening to Jack Brickhouse and the Cubs. But the Cubs are a really good team, especially for one as good as they are. It would be nice for the decades-suffering fans of Chicago if they could win it all for the first time in 108 years. And, again, if a team is good enough to beat the Giants, I want them to be good enough to beat anyone. That doesn't really make the Giants any better, but it's nice thought. The Cubs have great pitching, great defense and a long lineup. Anthony Rizzo and especially Kris Bryant are strong MVP candidates, and the Cubs may have the best pitching staff in baseball. They were first in the NL in ERA and second in scoring. Their +252 run differential translates into just 54 losses on the season, or even fewer than the 58 they did lose. They won eight more games than any team, and 16 more than the Giants. If the Cubs go on to win the World Series, their manager Joe Maddon will likely begin to be in the discussion for potential Hall of Fame managers. He's managed only 11 full seasons, but has won the Manager of the Year Award three times, and one would think he's got a shot at a fourth this season. He'll reach 1000 victories early next season. The Cubs will likely have the MVP (Bryant), as well as the best reliever (Chapman) and the majors' top two ERA leaders (Hendricks and Lester). It's a shame the Giants had to lose to these guys, but it's certainly no disgrace to lose to a team which is that good. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/3544/javier-baez#ixzz4Mv4ccsOV
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Post by klaiggeb on Oct 12, 2016 19:54:02 GMT -5
I'm not questioning Baez' skill, Rog.
He's very talented.
But that hot dogging... old school?
Uh uh.
No way.
Do your job and act like a professional.
Old school pitchers would have drilled him.
I would have too.
Puig is a hot dogging ass, too.
How DARE you compare THEIR hot dogging to Madison's temper!
How DARE you!!!!
Not even the same!
Not even close!
One is emotion getting carried away.
Puig and Baez are PURPOSELY calling attention to themselves.
That is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo different.
boly
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Post by Rog on Oct 12, 2016 20:52:04 GMT -5
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Post by Rog on Oct 12, 2016 21:02:31 GMT -5
How DARE you compare THEIR hot dogging to Madison's temper! How DARE you!!!! Not even the same! Not even close! Rog -- I wasn't talking about hot dogging when I mentioned Puig and Madison (not that Yasiel doesn't hot dog). I was referring to their childish spat. I believe that the last time stuff happened with them, Madison said to Yasiel, "Stop looking at me!" Yeah, that's really a smart thing to say. Madison is far different from Yasiel and Javier. He's not a hot dog. But he's not above being a big baby like Puig. I don't know one way or the other with Baez. And in fairness to Baez, after his stupid Cadillac-ing, he began to run out of the box with the quickness of someone like Hunter Pence. And he seems to be pretty fast too. Maybe if I saw him all the time I'd feel differently, but right now I would love to see him play every day. He seems like a REALLY exciting player. We saw just a few plays obviously, but in those few, his fielding looked as good as anyone I'e seen. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/3544/javier-baez?page=1#ixzz4MvTWcpLp
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Post by donk33 on Oct 13, 2016 0:17:45 GMT -5
dk...I don't know what you mean when you say old school.....there were plenty of "hot dogs" when I was a kid in the early '30's...didn't you ever hear of the "Gas House Gang"....it was close to the whole SL Cardinal team...with Pepper Martin leading the way....you had to come out for batting practice to watch them play "Pepper" with a ball and without one...then they would line up as a football team and run plays...with or without a ball....some great diving catches something.....they also played the game with reckless and spirited energy....especially Pepper and his belly slide....Dizzy Dean was another character who was beloved/hated ....Eddie Stanky invented new ways to beat you....he would get into the hitters line of sight and wave his arms when the pitch was coming in...he also would get hit by a batted ball if he was the runner on first and the ball was hit to the second baseman and looked to be a sure double play...they changed the rules so that an umpire could call an automatic DP if the runner took one for the team....Freddie Fitzsimons great ex Giant would field balls in the batting practice and catch the ball behind his back...Babe Ruth loved to show off his power in BP...even after he retired as a player and coached the Dodgers.... Some times the team would set up a fun thing...The day George "Mercury" Myatt returned to the Giants , they had News camera guy on the field before batting practice and they had Myatt steal home with a big slide ...the camera guy missed the shot because Myatt was too fast, so they had to do it over...Myatt never did learn how to steal first...players used to do a lot of talking during a game ..you could hear them all over the field....I asked Bill Rigney when he was manager of the Angels if anyone still called him Cricket...he said, no....Bill sounded like a cricket as he was yelling on the field...
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Post by Rog on Oct 13, 2016 21:40:12 GMT -5
That Gas House Gang was made up of a lot of characters, wasn't it?
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Post by klaiggeb on Oct 14, 2016 9:54:46 GMT -5
Hot dogging has always been a part of the game... but back when I played, it was DEALT with by the opposing team.
boly
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Post by Rog on Oct 14, 2016 17:05:12 GMT -5
Hot dogging has always been a part of the game... but back when I played, it was DEALT with by the opposing team.
Rog -- Which is really mature. Who gives a flying hoot what the other team does? I'm just going to go out and play my game. Protection I can see a purpose behind. But who CARES if the other tean hot dogs? Maybe it will get in the way of their play, such as when a batter stops to look at his "home run," only to see it remain in the park.
Isn't it possible to just rise above the other team? I don't really remember any team being really stupid when I played (or even umpired), but if they did so, who cares? If we allow others to dictate our actions, we're simply showing our own weakness. Can't we simply make our statement with our play? Or must we allow the other team to bring us down to their level?
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Post by klaiggeb on Oct 14, 2016 20:45:15 GMT -5
Rog, I understand in "princple" what you mean... but the reality is when some player on the other team is "in your face-ing you... THAT's where I draw the line.\
It has NOTHING to do with maturity.
It has EVERYTHING about standing up for yourself, your team and the game.
Play the game the RIGHT WAY.
How many times have we heard that.
RESPECT THE GAME is another.
You don't respect the game by purposely showing up the other guy/team.
You don't.
You never played at the level some of us did so I understand why it's a foreign concept.
I really do.
Play to win.
Play hard.
Be humble.
Those are words ALL professional athletes should live by.
boly
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Post by Rog on Oct 21, 2016 1:08:09 GMT -5
Another amazing play by Baez tonight. He was quite a way onto the outfield grass in the over shift when the play began. Adrian Gonzalez bunted the ball too hard, but the rule is to just get the drag bunt past the pitcher -- especially when the guy fielding it begins the play quite a few feet onto the outfield grass. Barehanded play by Baez just got Gonzalez on replay review.
If you didn't see it (as I didn't, live), go to mlb.com for their coverage of tonight's game, and it's right there. This guy just keeps doing things we aren't used to seeing. I wish he played for the Giants to add to the excitement.
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Post by Rog on Oct 21, 2016 1:28:43 GMT -5
Rog, I understand in "princple" what you mean... but the reality is when some player on the other team is "in your face-ing you... THAT's where I draw the line.\ It has NOTHING to do with maturity. Rog -- Actually it does. I understand stuff like that goes against the book, and in this case the book isn't even as unclear as it sometimes is. But if you want to see how something like this should be handled, just listen to Joe Maddon after the Cubs were badly beaten by the Dodgers in game 3 of the NLCS. He was asked if he was offended by a Dodger stealing third base with a six-run lead. When we were growing up, that certainly went against the book. But Maddon took the high road and said that the object of the game is to score runs and that he wasn't offended by it. Why would we let someone else determine our actions? If a player is endangered by a ball being thrown at him, that's a different story (although often the ball wasn't thrown intentionally, which makes retaliation ridiculous). But if a guy hot dogs, just let him be. Don't stoop to his level. Show that you're a man even if he chooses to behave like a little boy. Incidentally, I hate the way baseball (the umpires) handle pitches thrown at guys. They warn BOTH teams. If the umpire doesn't think the ball was thrown at the batter intentionally, why warn -- especially BOTH teams? If the umpire truly thinks the ball was thrown at the batter intentionally, intentionally throw something himself -- the offending pitcher right out of the game. It often isn't hard to tell if the pitcher is indeed throwing at the batter. If he is, don't warn. Instead, take action. The umpire's job is to keep the game safe and fair. If he doesn't take the proper actions to keep the game safe, he isn't doing his job. IMO warning both teams is a sign of weakness by the umpire. He's copping out. It's HIS job to determine if the pitch was thrown intentionally. Warning is simply copping out on the decision. As you know, I support umpires -- but not when they're clearly wrong. They're going to make mistakes. They're human. But they're going down the wrong road with regard to pitchers throwing at batters. A pitcher who does so is threatening a player's livelihood if not his actual life (as in the case of Roy Chapman, although batters are kept far more safe today than they were then). If an umpire is out of position to make a call, he should be criticized. If he doesn't hustle, he should be criticized. And if he cops out as is the case with pitches thrown at batters, he should be criticized. Every umpire is going to miss calls. Rather than not trust them, we should acknowledge reality. But if they're not doing the right thing to help them get the call right, they deserve criticism. Just as a player deserves criticism -- not for striking out, walking a batter or even allowing a hit on an 0-2 pitch -- but for not hustling, not being in proper position or not using his head. And, yeah, a pitcher can allow a hit on 0-2 even if he's using his head. Anyone who doesn't realize pitchers don't always hit their targets hasn't pitched -- or caught or umpired or perhaps even watched a game. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/3544/javier-baez?page=1#ixzz4NhIJrWBn
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Post by klaiggeb on Oct 21, 2016 10:34:50 GMT -5
Well, Rog, then we're going to disagree.
then again, most people don't have my temperament.
boly
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