Beyond Pathetic

[klaiggeb]

Someone ought to talk to our clowns that you have to do more than just show up.

Because today, that is ALL that they've done.

I simply cannot stand, nor tolerate STUPID.

And that's the way our at bats went against Jackson.

Facing a guy who struggles to throw strikes they are chasing curve balls when they're ahead in the count, swinging at pitches not in the strike zone and making Jackson look like an all star.

Pagan opened the game with still another stupid at bat.

2-0 count, runner on 2B and HE chases a pitch up and out of the zone.

That's not a plan, that's just going through the motions.

That is the reason I am not and have never been a Pagan fan.

Outfield miscues, infield miscues... just plain brain dead baseball.

This team looks for all the world like at the break, they were so impressed by their newspaper clippings, they forgot they had to come out:

1-WITH A PLAN

2-Use their heads

3-Play heads up, aggressive baseball.

And Gillaspier's home run does NOT


That error on Posey's throw yesterday was SAMARDIZJA'S fault.

He gave Jankowski ONE look 4 consecutive pitches, and never once gave him a double look.

Result, SB, E-2.

Jeff's fault. You've got to do a better job holding a runner than that.

You just have to.

And I EXPECT better from a guy in the show as long as Samardizja has been.

Inexcuseable. Absolutely inexcuseable!

[klaiggeb]

And Gillaspie's HR does NOT change my opinion of what I call a lethargic, half-assed performance by most of the Giant team.

Don't know if we're going to win or lose, but this has been pathetic!

boly

[Rog]

Even after losing three straight -- the last two in very disappointing fashion -- the Giants still have the best record in the majors. Of course we're going to be very disappointed in the specifics of some games. This is baseball, after all.

But if we're going to put things into perspective, perhaps we should look at the fact that the Giants' record against winning teams is only 17-14. That's certainly a winning record, which isn't to be minimized. But the fact is that the Giants built up the excellent first-half record by beating up on the losers.

That didn't happen in San Diego, and there were disappointing moments galore. But that happens with even the bst of teams. For the first two and a half months, the Braves were the best team in baseball. Then they lost 15 out of 20 games and arguably yielded that ranking to the Giants. The Braves have since won 4 of 5. The Giants too will bounce back. How soon and how high we don't know. But it is virtually assured they will do so.

Were the Giants without a plan in San Diego -- or were they merely unable to execute it? I don't know enough about the situation to be sure one way or the other. Were they not using their heads? Well, if not, they certainly didn't always use them during their winning streaks either.

Are the things Boly brought up frustrating? You bet they are. But for perspective, shouldn't we be looking at factors such as the good-not-great record against winning teams? Shouldn't we be looking at Johnny Cueto's not being entirely healthy right now?

On the other hand, weak sister players have been playing wildly over their heads so that the many injuries haven't hurt the Giants nearly as badly as they could have. Madison Bumgarner has been great, and Brandon Crawford has been excellent on both sides of the ball. Matt Cain is due back tomorrow, and the rest of the Red Cross contingent is getting much closer.

Why is it that when the Giants hit a slump, they were overly impressed with their newspaper clipping and don't have a plan? Even very good teams hit bad streaks. For the first two and a half months the Cubs were easily the best team in baseball. Then they lost 15 out of 20 games and fell back below the Giants.

The Giants too will bounce back. When and how strongly, we don't know. But it is almost certain they will bounce back. They're a good team, and they're finally getting healthy.

Were they not playing heads-up, aggressive baseball -- or was it tough to play aggressively after falling behind? Certainly the Giants made a nice comeback -- only to lose the game on a balk.

It's a long season, but if it ended today, the Giants would easily be in the playoffs. Isn't that what we're looking for?

[klaiggeb]

You and Randy keep pointing at our record Rog, and saying 'we'll be okay, and blah, blah, blah."

I disagree, and I disagree vehemently!


1-We've made more errors in the last 20 games or so than we made all season long to that point. Once upon a time we were one of the BEST defenses in baseball.

Now? Well, Green made a couple of screw ups today, Crawford and Posey and Pena, just to name a few, in SD.

The problem is steam rolling.

2-Our bullpen is shaky, at best. Shaky, and we don't have ANYONE down there we can turn to for help.

3-All year long, and I mean ALL YEAR LONG, this team has been making, and continues to make some of THE MOST STUPID base running mistakes I've ever seen a winning team make! As I said in another thread, I wouldn't tolerate this from my high school team! And these are major leaguers!

4-Look at Cueto's ERA over his last 5 starts: OVER 4.50. Sure, he threw ONE good game, but to have THAT ERA over a 5 game stretch?

5-Samardizja is back to being what Randy and others feared the most when we acquired; a gopher throwing machine.

6-Cain? Who knows, but I'm not holding my breath. He wasn't that good before he got hurt

7-Posey's RBI and HR totals are PATHETIC. I mean, seriously PA-THET-IC!

He's our 4 hole guy and supposedly our best hitter!

He had to get hotter 'n hell to get what he's got! And it ain't that good!

I continue to watch him kill almost as many rallies as 6-4-3 McGhee did!

He chased a bad pitch AGAIN, in SD, 6-4-3, and killed the rally!

And IMHO, THAT at bat was THE defining moment of the game. There were other "moments," but THAT ONE was the defining moment.

He screwed up with RISP AGAIN tonight, again, looking absolutely clueless at the plate!

8-Span-This AIN'T the lead off guy that was in Washington. It flat out isn't!

He's a life time .280ish hitter, with a near .350 OBP.

What he's been THIS year has been an embarassment!!

We have so many problems... have HAD so many problems for so long, that our FLUKE winning streaks have blinded everyone to what's really going on.


Ya'll see the numbers and first place.

I see the holes.

I see the problems.

I see the things that NEED to be fixed... and haven't been.

Ya'll are sure Pence and Panik will be back and it'll be all better.

Well I don't think we'll even SEE Pence until mid to late August, and then I'm not sure if he'll even be at 1/2 strength.

Panik will help. Pena's defense is shaky at best.

Duffy?

Still with soreness.

I don't see him back before mid-August either.

As Leonard Cohen sang:

"Everybody knows that the boat is leaking

Everybody knows that the captain lied

Everybody got this broken feeling

Like their father or their dog just died

Everybody talking to their pockets

Everybody wants a box of chocolates

And a long-stem rose

Everybody knows."

Well, I don't see that box of chocolates and I sure don't see a long stemmed rose any where in our future.


For the life of me I just can't comprehend why I'm the only one who sees it.

I really can't.

boly

[sfgdood]

Here's the point though, my pessimistic friend. They built the best record in baseball with help from lots of no names. As bad as it looks, we are in great shape, all things considered. Does that mean it will be smooth sailing till the end? Uh, no...but there is plenty of reason for optimism. Panik will be back shortly, Cain is back today, Pence will be back in early August, most likely and Duffy after that. Even with Romo back we do need bullpen help but you seem to have this belief that when the team hits a rough patch in the road that it will go on forever...you never can see light at the end of the tunnel, or if you do see it, you don't trust your own eyes.

[klaiggeb]

Randy, you go ahead and be optimistic. Wish I could feel the same.

I, however, cannot.

I said before, I say it again; I see the holes, lots and lots of holes, and none bigger than our useless bullpen.

Ya'all see the numbers, what I see is a team that got hot and got lucky, nothing more.

Yeah, we'll be getting some guys back.

But don't for one moment think that they're going to come back and pick up where they left off.

uh huh.

It'll take a good 2 weeks to get Panik back to where he was.

Longer with Pence.

Longer still with Duffy... who was no big deal when he was healthy.



The boat is leaking... and leaking badly.

boly

[Rog]

With the Giants still just a half game off the game's best record, I don't think it's a case of being optimistic. I think it's a case of being reasonable.

Honestly, Boly, when the season started, would you have settled with being half a game off the game's record five games into the second half? IMO you thought too highly of the team early on and are overreacting to their present slump.

Did anyone truly believe they were the best team in baseball even when they had the game's best record at the break? Again, they were just 17-14 against teams over .500. That was good, but far from great. Now they're 17-16.

Had you bet me 10-1 before the season that the Giants would suffer through all the injuries they've suffered through and still have MLB's best record on the 20th of July, I wouldn't have been able to take that bet without feeling I was being under-compensated by the odds. That the Giants have won as many games as they have is simply fantastic IMO.

[klaiggeb]

Rog, you're not being reasonable at all, IMHO.

We've lost 5 straight.

not just lost, but were embarrassed 5 straight times.

Until last night we were NOT hitting.

Until last night we were playing terrible defense.

We still have a terrible bullpen.

I've documented Cueto's and Samardizja's problems in multiple posts.

Posey and his stinking 42 RBIs...no excuse for the team's best hitter

Our lack of ability to close out games... I believe we've now blown more saves than ANY team in baseball.

So tell me, seriously, how are you being reasonable?

I'll say it again:

The boat is leaking and no one seems to care.

boly

[sfgdood]

it's reasonable for the same reasons that you said before the season that this team should win 100 games. It's reasonable because we had the best record at the break despite a rash of injuries. It's reasonable because we have the best manager in the game. And it's reasonable because this team still has champions blood.

[klaiggeb]

All good reasons, Randy, all good reasons.

I have only 2 points:

1-We're hurt, and I'm not all that convinced all 3 will come back and be effective

2-We are in desperate need of bullpen help.

boly

[Rog]

Well, I don't see that box of chocolates and I sure don't see a long stemmed rose any where in our future.


Rog -- Did you see them in the summer of 2014 when the Giants went through a streak that was (believe it or not) far worse than this one? How many times do we have to say that the Giants aren't as good as they seem when they're playing great ball, or as bad as they seem when they bite the paperboy?




Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/3376/pathetic#ixzz4FF7jtQiY

[Rog]

So tell me, seriously, how are you being reasonable?


Rog - When I said, "Had you bet me 10-1 before the season that the Giants would suffer through all the injuries they've suffered through and still have MLB's best record on the 20th of July, I wouldn't have been able to take that bet without feeling I was being under-compensated by the odds."?




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Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/3376/pathetic#ixzz4FF8b15m7

[Rog]

We're hurt, and I'm not all that convinced all 3 will come back and be effective


Rog -- You're right on the money -- and we're not even talking about Kelby Tomlinson, who was filling in extremely well before he himself was injured. But even with many injuries -- much as they suffered in 2014 -- the Giants are playing at a higher winning pace than they did in 2014.


Boly -- We are in desperate need of bullpen help.


Rog -- I would like to see the Giants get not one but two relievers -- preferably left-handed. But a team that has fashioned a record as good as the Giants and recently gotten back possibly their best reliever after a long absence probably is in clear or even great need, but likely not desperate help.

Incidentally, I don't think the Giants are a great team and didn't even when they were healthy. In fact, in some ways, their biggest accomplishment may be having won so many games without several of their important players. But just as they were only good but not great then, they're still good and not lousy now.

Playing lousy? Yes. A lousy team? Not even close.


Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/3376/pathetic#ixzz4FF9H0QgX

[klaiggeb]

Great team?

No. But had we STAYED FRICKING HEALTHY, I still contend, and will until the day I die that this WOULD HAVE BEEN the greatest SF Giant team ever.

Now, we'll never know.

boly

[Rog]

I'll say it again:

The boat is leaking and no one seems to care.


Rog -- What makes you think that no one seems to care? Hopefully no one is panicking, but hopefully (and almost certainly) they care.





Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/3376/pathetic#ixzz4FGehih5W

[Rog]

Great team?

No. But had we STAYED FRICKING HEALTHY, I still contend, and will until the day I die that this WOULD HAVE BEEN the greatest SF Giant team ever.


Rog -- Wouldn't that have made them great? I can't imagine a successful franchise like the Giants not having a single great team in nearly 60 years. The 1993 team didn't even make the playoffs, but one could argue they were great. 103 wins will do that.




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[klaiggeb]

Great team?

Maybe.

But to get a 'great' outta me, that's going to take some doing.

Everyone thought Reggie Jackson was great.

I didn't.

Great is reserved for guys like Aaron, Mays, Dimaggio and the like.

Not guys like Reggie who really only became "great" in the post season.


Great, to me, means all season(s) long. Not just one part of the year.

Look up Reggie's numbers. Took advantage of the Yankee short porch, but for a guy with HIS talent?

Best I can give him is 'very good,' and no more.


boly