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Post by klaiggeb on Jun 29, 2016 0:37:32 GMT -5
What, was someone serving STUPID apples today in the clubhouse?
Must have been, because if they were, Bochy ate a bunch.
ON the stupid scale, he mismanaged this game badly, and not just once, but three times.
Three times!
What he did defies any lame-assed explanation he could come up with.
1-Why in the freakin' WORLD would he start Williamson against a sinker baller?
Why?
I've watched Mac for quite a while now, and he CONTINUALLY swings OVER sinking fastballs.
He did it twice tonight, costing us at least one run.
The smart move was to start Blanco or Parker.
But no.
He bit into that 'stupid' apple and started Williamson... who looked helpless.
2-Why in the world would he bring in Kontos to face Vogt?
Why?
That was STUPID.
Kontos has NOT pitched well vs LHB all year long.
And worse, in the bullpen we've got Lopez to GET that one LHB, or Osich.
And Osich has excelled against LHB.
Stupid move, and it cost the team a bunch of runs.
3-Why in the freaking WORLD would he leave Lopez in to pitch to a RH pinch hitter?
Why?
Casilla was ready, and getting a 5 out save ain't that big a deal.
But he leaves in Lopez who has been TERRIBLE against RHB all year long, and gives up the lead to a BACK UP CATCHER!
What Bochy did tonight was reminiscent of Clint Hurdle when he was with the Rockies.
Stupid, asinine, inexplicably dumb moves
I expect better from Bochy.
Much better.
And yes, STUPID is the word I mean.
boly
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Post by Islandboagie on Jun 29, 2016 1:03:28 GMT -5
Actually Kontos has been much better against righties and lefties recently.
Expecting Casilla to get 5 outs is obviously an opinion from someone who hasn't been around much in the last few weeks.
Bochy is trying to find the identity of his bullpen. It's important to find out right now rather than in September. He is managing with faith in his guys in the bullpen to get the job done and they've failed miserably. Sometimes you have to blame the players, not the manager.
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Post by klaiggeb on Jun 29, 2016 12:56:08 GMT -5
Boagie-Bochy is trying to find the identity of his bullpen. It's important to find out right now rather than in September. He is managing with faith in his guys in the bullpen to get the job done and they've failed miserably. Sometimes you have to blame the players, not the manager.
***boly says***
Gee, boagie, thanks for the SHOT! Totally uncalled for.
As to your post and seemingly your position, we are not going to agree.
We just are not.
1-We are in JUNE, not April or May. If he's STILL trying to find the "identity," of the bullpen, then something is terribly amiss in the SF bullpen.
And I contend it IS amiss.
Evans MUST go out and make a smallish deal to FIND someone NOT named Lopez to get LHB out. Because through almost 3 months of baseball, Lopez has proven he cannot.
Our bullpen guys have NOT developed as expected, and I'm referring to both Osich and Strickland. I expected progress from both. I've seen very little from either.
And because they haven't performed up to expectations, the pen is most likely being over worked because Bochy is forced to play the match up game.
2-Having faith in your guys in the pen is a great, no... necessary thing.
But for a manager who has SAID that he's going to play match ups...then I ask the question; where was the "match up" throwing Kontos against a LHB when you have Lopez, a one out lefty guy down in the pen?
Bottom line: he DIDN'T play match ups, he just rolled Kontos out, and because he didn't go to the "match up," the team paid the price and lost embarrassingly.
3-Bochy is usually the BEST bullpen manager in baseball, maybe the best I've ever seen. Perhaps only Roger Craig comes close and HE, Craig did NOT have the talent to work with that Bochy has. But he erred MIGHTILY last night and he cost the team a chance for a win.
4-YES, I BLAME the players. They flat out stunk.
But that does NOT excuse what I consider to be not one, not two, but three gallactically stupid moves last night.
I'll say it again:
a-Williamson has continually PROVEN that he's over matched against sinker ballers. And because of that, he SHOULD NOT have been in the starting lineup.
b-Lopez or even Osich should have been called upon to get Vogt out, NOT Kontos.
c-That "out of character" move by Bochy caused the 3rd dipstick move: Being stuck with having the very INEFFECTIVE Lopez to pitch to a RHB
That one move, bringing Kontos in, led to EVERYTHING that followed.
So you can go ahead and blame the players; they did stink up the lot.
Me? I see the domino effect by the manager's idiotic, foolish move.
Bing...bang... BOOM!
boly
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Post by Rog on Jun 29, 2016 14:24:12 GMT -5
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Post by Rog on Jun 29, 2016 14:32:30 GMT -5
Why in the world would he bring in Kontos to face Vogt? Why? That was STUPID. Kontos has NOT pitched well vs LHB all year long. And worse, in the bullpen we've got Lopez to GET that one LHB, or Osich. Rog -- Not a bad point. But in answer to the question, it might have been because he wanted to save Lopez and Osich for the 7th, 8th and 9th innings. As you have pointed out, many of the Giants' right-handed relievers have a hard time getting lefties out. In addition, the hot Semien was the hitter in the hole, and Bruce may have felt Semien was the more dangerous hitter and thus that bringing in a right-hander was appropriate given the other factors. Sometimes managers are simply looking at more factors than we are. That doesn't mean they're right all the time, but it also doesn't mean we're always right in our criticism. Sometimes there is simply more than one way to go, and neither will work out all the time. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/3358/mismanaged-3-times#ixzz4Czwzqfir |
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Post by Rog on Jun 29, 2016 14:36:31 GMT -5
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Post by Rog on Jun 29, 2016 14:42:50 GMT -5
I thought your comments were better and more precise than mine, Boagie. And I felt that as much as giving Boly a "shot," you might have been giving him an out. Santiago hasn't been the most popular Giants reliever of late either.
When the bullpen isn't going well, the manager is going to make a lot of "mistakes." Not to totally excuse Bruce, but just as we sometimes give him too much praise when things go well, we might be guilty of being too hard on him when they didn't. We just don't always have the facts at our disposal that the manager has. Not only that, we should expect that he will occasionally make a mistake. He's human.
We're a critical group here on this board!
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Post by klaiggeb on Jun 29, 2016 19:44:19 GMT -5
Yes, I'm critical, Rog, but... BUT... Bochy SAID he was going to play match ups... and then he went back on his word.
It's that complicated and that simple.
And how was Boagie giving me an out?
Giving me an out would have been saying what he had to say more tactfully.
boly
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Post by Islandboagie on Jun 29, 2016 20:01:43 GMT -5
I'm not sure how I offended you, Boly, but I apologize if I did.
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Post by klaiggeb on Jun 30, 2016 9:30:04 GMT -5
boagie-"Expecting Casilla to get 5 outs is obviously an opinion from someone who hasn't been around much in the last few weeks." ****boly says*** The remark I've quoted above was very condescending, boagie. But that's the problem with the 'written' word over the 'spoken' word. Things can be taken in a different manner from which the poster/writer intended. I took it as condescending. I DO thank you for the apology, and apology accepted.  boly |
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Post by Islandboagie on Jun 30, 2016 10:32:55 GMT -5
My point of saying that was Casilla hasn't necessarily been better over the last 2 weeks while you were away. I don't think he blew any saves during that period, but he was just as shaky. I certainly wouldn't thrust him into the game with runners on already, not yet anyway.
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Post by Islandboagie on Jun 30, 2016 10:44:08 GMT -5
And just for the record, my intention was not to be condescending, but I can see how it would have been construed as so.
My point was merely to point out that you haven't been here for the last 2 weeks to see our bullpen struggle. Right now the only pitcher in our bullpen that doesn't worry me when he enters the game is Gearrin.
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Post by klaiggeb on Jun 30, 2016 14:36:03 GMT -5
boagie-My point was merely to point out that you haven't been here for the last 2 weeks to see our bullpen struggle. Right now the only pitcher in our bullpen that doesn't worry me when he enters the game is Gearrin.
***boly says***
More than a fair observation, boagie.
But had you said something like: "boly, over the last 2 weeks while you were gone, Santiago and the entire pen has been shaky," I would have taken it differently.
But I guess the point here is that we BOTH can see we need HELP, and a lot of it, in the pen.
And that Casilla AIN'T the answer as a closer.
Krukow was speaking of Romo's return yesterday as if HE, Romo, was the savior they've been waiting for.
I would say, "Kruk, time to come back to reality.
Romo's been decent the last couple of years, but this is NOT the guy who closed in the past.
We need HELP!
And we need it in the pen soon.
boly
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Post by Rog on Jul 1, 2016 0:41:32 GMT -5
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Post by Rog on Jul 1, 2016 0:43:51 GMT -5
It would cost a fortune, but it surely would be great if the Giants picked up Andrew Miller. More likely and in character would be to pick up a lesser reliever, possibly even with the intent of having him close.
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Post by Rog on Jul 1, 2016 0:48:48 GMT -5
Bochy SAID he was going to play match ups... and then he went back on his word.
Rog -- He may have felt he was playing the best matchup by playing the hot guy. To me, that is a part of matching up. Can't matchups be based on hand of pitcher, a hitter's record against a pitcher or type of pitcher, or who the hot guy is?
To me, it is playing whatever guy the manager feels has the best chance to help his team that day. In that sense, I guess a manager should pretty much ALWAYS play matchups. But he usually specifies playing matchups when he's planning to incorporate several different players in the rotation.
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Post by klaiggeb on Jul 1, 2016 10:50:10 GMT -5
Rog, to quote and paraphrase Mad Dog Tannen from Back to the Future III. "He thought wrong, dude!" boly |
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Post by Rog on Jul 1, 2016 15:45:46 GMT -5
Williamson entered the game 5 for 7. Parker was 1 for 7. Blanco is being rested right now. I myself would likely have chosen Parker, but I can see why Bruce chose Williamson. Why is it that we seem to think we're right and Bruce is wrong?
If we can't see the logic behind a decision, shouldn't we try to search for it? In this case it appears Bruce had logic, whether his decision agrees with ours or not.
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