Baserunning

[klaiggeb]

It's just my opinion, but I really was NOT impressed with much of our base running this series.

I really wasn't.

1-Duffy's attempt to take the extra base on Braun I didn't think was very smart, nor was there a high percentage for success on the play.

Braun's arm is simply too strong and too accurate.



2-Posey's attempt to score on Belt's popup, I felt, and still do feel, was, at best, ill advised.

Pagan, Span, Blanco, Pence, yes, for sure. Kick that pig and go for it! High percentage of success.

Panik, Belt, Crawford, maybe. They're quick enough to take a chance, and I would have no problem with their effort

Posey? No way. The risk was too high. Way too high. The juice wasn't worth the squeeze, and it killed the inning.

Yeah, the catch was a difficult one, no question, but to turn and make that throw simply wasn't that hard, and honestly, the throw to get a runner like Posey, didn't have to be very precise.

If you're a veteran infielder you've made throws like that hundreds of times.

Very bad decision, IMHO.



3-Belt being thrown out stealing twice were rally killers.

What we don't know is, did Duffy BLOW a H/R twice?

It sure didn't look like it, which puts the onus on Brandon, which, once again, causes me to question his baseball smarts.

Lucroy doesn't have an exceptional arm, but he has a quick release, and usually makes a fairly accurate throw.

If Belt thinks he's fast, he needs to re think that thought process.




4-Why wasn't Blanco running when he lead off that inning late in the game?

Why?

That makes ZERO sense to me.

Zero.

That was a steal situation.

He represented the tying run.

He's a lead off type guy, and IMHO, had a high percentage chance of being safe.




I don't like station-to-station baseball, and this team, outside of Posey, has no reason to play that way.

If Blanco was given the "don't go" sign, that's one thing.

If it was HIS decision, that's another.

And it's my opinion that it was his decision.

boly

[sfgdood]

I have to disagree on one point. I thought Posey's attempted score on the potential sac fly was a solid play, even if it didn't work. It was simply a studly play by Hill. To stop on a dime, turn his body around and throw a strike was amazing, especially given that Posey was running right in his throwing path. If it was the LF coming in to make the catch, then you're right about it being a bad decision. But Posey read the situation correctly, IMO. Right move, just better defense.

I also thought Pagan and Craw were great on the bases as well.

[klaiggeb]

Randy, my problems with Posey's attempt were two fold:

1-He's NOT fast

2-I've made that play, every big league infielder has, whether it's behind 3B, SS 2B, or 1B. and it's not that hard. It really isn't.

In fact, with a slow runner like Posey, the throw could have been wide, and they still would have gotten him.

boly

[sfgdood]

I've made that play also, or at least attempted it. The hard part is keeping the throw online when you haven't had time to set up properly. While twisting your body like that it is VERY easy to release the ball early or hold on to it too long, thereby winging it far wide of the target. To put it right on the money is very impressive.

[sfgdood]

it's like sinking a 12 foot putt while your body is turning sideways

[donk33]

Apr 7, 2016 11:43:41 GMT -5 klaiggeb said:

It's just my opinion, but I really was NOT impressed with much of our base running this series.

I really wasn't.

1-Duffy's attempt to take the extra base on Braun I didn't think was very smart, nor was there a high percentage for success on the play.

Braun's arm is simply too strong and too accurate.



2-Posey's attempt to score on Belt's popup, I felt, and still do feel, was, at best, ill advised.

Pagan, Span, Blanco, Pence, yes, for sure. Kick that pig and go for it! High percentage of success.

Panik, Belt, Crawford, maybe. They're quick enough to take a chance, and I would have no problem with their effort

Posey? No way. The risk was too high. Way too high. The juice wasn't worth the squeeze, and it killed the inning.

Yeah, the catch was a difficult one, no question, but to turn and make that throw simply wasn't that hard, and honestly, the throw to get a runner like Posey, didn't have to be very precise.

If you're a veteran infielder you've made throws like that hundreds of times.

Very bad decision, IMHO.



3-Belt being thrown out stealing twice were rally killers.

What we don't know is, did Duffy BLOW a H/R twice?

It sure didn't look like it, which puts the onus on Brandon, which, once again, causes me to question his baseball smarts.

Lucroy doesn't have an exceptional arm, but he has a quick release, and usually makes a fairly accurate throw.

If Belt thinks he's fast, he needs to re think that thought process.




4-Why wasn't Blanco running when he lead off that inning late in the game?

Why?

That makes ZERO sense to me.

Zero.

That was a steal situation.

He represented the tying run.

He's a lead off type guy, and IMHO, had a high percentage chance of being safe.




I don't like station-to-station baseball, and this team, outside of Posey, has no reason to play that way.

If Blanco was given the "don't go" sign, that's one thing.

If it was HIS decision, that's another.

And it's my opinion that it was his decision.

boly

dk...the Giants have been running Belt every time he has been on 2nd with less than 2 outs and Duffy is at bat...they are simply trying to stay out of the double play....one time could have been a hit and run play but the pitch had Duffy all tied up inside....  Belt  really isn't that bad a runner.....

[klaiggeb]

I agree, Don. But the thing is it didn't "look like" Duffy missed the H/R sign either time.

Me? I WOULD have played H & R both times.

Bochy didn't, and there in lies one of the problems I continue to have with him.

Both situations were the perfect place to put the play on; Duffy is a normal 2 hole hitter, ground ball pitcher on the mound.

He is the best Giant manager I've ever seen, as I've said many times, but when he fails to do what I think should be done; what I believe is the logical play to call, all too often, he doesn't.

That leaves us with my original point; Belt was stealing on his own, which I think was a bad play both times.

boly

[Rog]

What we don't know is, did Duffy BLOW a H/R twice?

It sure didn't look like it, which puts the onus on Brandon, which, once again, causes me to question his baseball smarts.


Rog -- I don't think Matt blew the signs either. But I can't agree that Belt's base stealing shows a lack of baseball smarts. Yes, he was thrown out twice, but one of them was close enough for him to initially have been called safe.

But here is what is more important. Entering the series, Brandon's career base stealing percentage was 76%. We've been asking why Angel Pagan doesn't steal more often. Angel's success rate as a Giants is ... 76%. We've been asking why Gregor Blanco doesn't steal more. Gregor's percentage is 74%.

Is it consistent to say Brandon Belt isn't showing baseball smarts when he gets thrown out stealing, when in fact we're asking two players who don't steal more successfully than Brandon to steal MORE? Doesn't seem fair to me.

So, did he try to steal at an inappropriate time?

Tuesday he tried after leading off the ninth inning with a leadoff BUNT single. A guy makes a smart play in a very appropriate situation at a very appropriate time, then we complain about his baseball smarts when he gets thrown out in a very reasonable situation?

Yesterday he was thrown out after replay, trying to steal second base with one out in the fourth and the Giants trailing 3-2. With Duffy, Crawford and Samardzija coming up, that doesn't seem like the worst situation in which to try to get yourself into scoring position.

Neither situation was inappropriate to steal. If it had been Span, Pagan, Blanco or Duffy, we would might well have applauded the move. Yes, those guys are faster than Belt. But while Span (80%) and Duffy (12 for 13 in a very small sample) might have been better choices than Belt, neither Pagan nor Blanco really would have been.

Here might be another way to look at Belt's base stealing. Given that he's been successful as often as Pagan or Blanco despite having a lot less speed, shouldn't we be praising his ability to get a jump and steal at the right time? Should we be questioning his baseball smarts in doing something that he has been reasonably successful for despite not having the physical tools we would expect to make him successful?

Think about if Gary Brown had Brandon Belt's instincts for stealing bases. Like Billy Hamilton, Brown might have stuck around the major leagues despite the ability to hit.

I think we've gotten caught up in a fervor about Belt's not having baseball sense. To the point where we're criticizing him in an area in which he likely deserves far more from us.

Let's give Brandon credit for what he is -- an above-average baseball player. If we have to criticize him for what has actually been surprisingly successful base stealing, perhaps he isn't as easy a target as we're presenting him to be. Maybe we've simply been caught up in a criticism fervor which is threatening our objectivity.

Does Brandon make mental lapses? Yes, he does. Even Willie Mays did, making two base running lapses that were frankly far worse than Brandon has made. But to criticize Brandon for developing his base stealing ability despite a lack of pure speed seems to me to be an injustice.


Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/3255/baserunning#ixzz45BjhVGB0

[Rog]

Why wasn't Blanco running when he lead off that inning late in the game?

Why?

That makes ZERO sense to me.

Zero.

That was a steal situation.

He represented the tying run.

He's a lead off type guy, and IMHO, had a high percentage chance of being safe.


Rog -- Based on their Giants experience entering this season, Brandon actually had a slightly BETTER chance of being safe. The situations were similar. We're criticizing Brandon for attempting to steal and Gregor for NOT trying? How does that make sense?




Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/3255/baserunning#ixzz45BsBmFf4

[klaiggeb]

I criticized them both, Rog.

And once again, you're looking at numbers.

I'm looking at facts.

1-Brandon ISN'T fast, and killed 2 rallies by ill advised attempts.

2-Blanco IS fast, but didn't use his speed.

-3Lucroy doesn't have a strong arm, but he has a quick release, and is usually fairly accurate.

Thus Blanco going has upside, Brandon running had too much down side for my taste.

boly

[Islandboagie]

I think you have a good argument by criticizing Belt for getting thrown out twice, especially the one where he was thrown out by 5 ft. However, in Blanco's case, you don't know if it was hard to get a read on the pitcher's move. If there is any doubt on reading the pitcher's move and getting a good jump, the best decision is to stay put. I believe that's what Blanco decided.

[klaiggeb]

Your point is valid, Boagie, and honestly, one that I thought of.

But the thing is, the guy pitching Blanco had likely seen before, or should have seen on film.

If he couldn't get a read, no question, don't go.

I just find that hard to believe.

boly

[Rog]

The Giants have signed Brandon Belt to a five-year extension for what is estimated at something like 5/$82. Apparently the Giants agreed to pay this amount to Belt before he was caught stealing it.

[Rog]

Your point is valid, Boagie, and honestly, one that I thought of.


Rog -- It's one that has been brought up numerous times by the resident "stats nerd," the guy who neither watches nor understands the game.




Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/3255/baserunning#ixzz45L98oqSG