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Post by Rog on Dec 12, 2015 13:52:21 GMT -5
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Post by Rog on Dec 12, 2015 13:56:30 GMT -5
We also MUST GET a CF.
Rog -- I think the Giants will get one, but I don't see it has an absolute must. If Pagan can't get the job done, I think Gregor Blanco could get the Giants by OK, just as he has done before. Gregor was the Giants' center fielder the last time they won the World Series.
The reason I think it does carry importance is that the Giants' only experienced outfielder under contract beyond next season is Hunter Pence.
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 12, 2015 16:34:08 GMT -5
Rog, my statement was: "Until he gets a deal done, I won't trust him."
He has given me NO REASON TO TRUST him!
As far as I'm concerned he failed LAST YEAR in Free Agency, and he's failed, so far THIS YEAR!
I don't care WHAT the situation is or was!
1-Did you improve the starting staff last year?
No.
2-Did you make the drastic improvements YOU SAID needed to be made THIS YEAR?
No.
What he did last year, and he's done this year, is:
1-Put a band aide on the problem that existed then, and is only marginally better now.
2-Supply the Giant fans with rhetoric about this that and the other, in a failing attempt to convince us that he's doing the best he can.
It's like this:
Bases loaded, bottom of the ninth, we're down by a run.
I want to hit that flyball and drive in a run.
I want to get a hit, to drive in that run.
But I don't.
I wanted to so badly... but I didn't.
I failed.
Period.
I am so sick of discussing this topic I think my frickin' head is going to explode!
Ya'all don't agree.
Fine!
Bobby keeps talking and talking and talking but to date, STILL hasn't done nearly enough to fix the problem that he SAID existed!
And with that, I am DONE with this topic!
I am NOT responding to any other questions or queries about my opinion or why I believe what I do about what Bobby has or hasn't done.
You've seen my reasons, and you are free to disagree.
boly
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Post by Rog on Dec 12, 2015 18:49:21 GMT -5
Rog, my statement was: "Until he gets a deal done, I won't trust him." He has given me NO REASON TO TRUST him! As far as I'm concerned he failed LAST YEAR in Free Agency, and he's failed, so far THIS YEAR! Rog -- I guess this one is like the cup half empty/cup half full thing. I see the cup as half full; you see it as half empty. I give someone the benefit of the doubt until he shows me I shouldn't; you don't trust him until he shows you he should. I would have a hard time with that. I'd be depressed all the time! Instead, I try to stay objective, and have the patience to wait and see how things turn out. If we're going to look at what Bobby HAS done thus far, his four deals have been to trade for Mike Leake, Marlon Byrd and Alejandro de Aza last summer and to sign Jeff Samardzija this winter. Overall, I'd give him something like a B/B- for that. I'm not impressed with the Samardzija signing, although I am willing to wait and see how things work out between him and Dave Righetti. I could not trust them on that one, but why not? They know more about it than I do. What's the point in getting upset prematurely? As for the mid-season trades, they were pretty good. They got players capable of helping without giving up much. Bobby showed he wasn't willing to just sit idly by. Byrd was a great help; Leake got injured and didn't help nearly as much as hoped; de Aza wasn't much help. If we want to go back to the trade deadline a year ago, Jake Peavy was arguably the best pickup of all. Last winter was disappointing, but the Giants kept their commitments short, didn't overspend based on the quality of what was left -- and still finished with the 4th-highest payroll in the majors. It seems that our differences come down primarily to the thought of some that the Giants should spend like drunken sailors. Spending the 4th-most of any team is being cheap? If one looks objectively, he sees that most of the teams that dramatically increase their spending (the Dodgers, Angels and Cardinals in particular) signed huge TV deals, which gave them instant money to spend. The Giants haven't had that luxury. I'm almost certain that we don't run our own finances the way we're insisting the Giants should. When we lament that the Giants have been cheap and haven't done as much this winter as the Diamondbacks and Cubs, it's kind of a joke. Those teams STILL aren't likely to be spending as much as the Giants. They are able to keep their payroll down because they've got very good cost-controlled players, while the Giants are outgrowing that situation. Now, if everyone can tell us that they personally spend as lavishly as we're demanding the Giants do, and we're still financially healthy, not just now but preparing for the future, I guess I can't argue with you. But I can't believe that is the case. It certainly isn't with most Americans or American businesses. Our country is having enough financial difficulties as it is. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/3158/free-agents?page=2#ixzz3u9UzJQYC
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Post by Rog on Dec 12, 2015 18:50:57 GMT -5
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Post by Rog on Dec 12, 2015 18:58:54 GMT -5
It's like this: Bases loaded, bottom of the ninth, we're down by a run. I want to hit that flyball and drive in a run. I want to get a hit, to drive in that run. But I don't. I wanted to so badly... but I didn't. I failed. Period. Rog -- I see two problems with that analogy. First, unlike your at bat, the Giants' chance to help win the "game" isn't over. I may be the only one here who had the "pleasure" of seeing live (which would seem to be impossible, given that I don't watch the games) Bob Brenly make a record four errors in one inning. Anyone grading him would have said he deserved one of the worst grades of all time. But Bob came back to hit a home run to win the game. It would have been unfair to grade him until the game was over. Second, with your time at bat, you knew the outcome and thus were rightly horribly disappointed. Neither we nor the Giants know the outcome yet. Other than the Giants' moves not yet being over and our inability to know how they turn out until they, well, turn out, we can't judge the Giants moves as we could your at bat. Sometimes our answer is simply to spend -- whatever it takes. Teams are becoming more and more leery of that, since it can hamstring them in the future. Perhaps Greinke's and Price's and Zimmermann's contracts will work out, but where are the precedents? The teams that have won it all in recent years haven't done so primarily because of the high-priced free agents they signed. Let's judge the Giants by how they perform. Until then, we're guilty of premature speculation, and that's not good. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/3158/free-agents?page=2#ixzz3u9afJy00
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 12, 2015 22:03:18 GMT -5
Rog-Sometimes our answer is simply to spend -- whatever it takes.
***boly says***
I have never, ever advocated "spending what-ever-it-takes."
I HAVE advocated spending what is NEEDED TO BE SPENT, and there's a huge... HUGE difference.
The Dodgers and now Cubs have spent just to spend and screw the future.
---Rog-- I see two problems with that analogy.
First, unlike your at bat, the Giants' chance to help win the "game" isn't over
But like my analogy or not, failure is failure.
And I've always said... SO FAR. The off season ISN'T over, but until Bobby DOES SOMETHING that addresses our starting pitching BESIDES Jeffy, I won't trust him.
I can't.
Enough with the words, Bobby, show me, or shut up.
boly
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Post by Rog on Dec 13, 2015 3:10:19 GMT -5
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Post by Rog on Dec 13, 2015 3:14:56 GMT -5
Enough with the words, Bobby, show me, or shut up. Rog -- Makes sense to me. Until we know what he's going to do, silence is golden as far as it comes to criticism. Maybe we shouldn't criticize until we know for sure what we're criticizing. If Bobby has to get the job done or remain silent, we too should remain silent (at least in negative fashion) until he completes his chance to get the job done. Hey, I like the Samardzija signing less than you, Boly. And I can't imagine how the Giants will be the best team in the National League this season. But they've won three World Series without being the best team. The notion that they can't compete is premature. And as we have seen three times, once a team makes the playoffs, just about anything can happen. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/3158/free-agents?page=2#ixzz3uBcNlEO3
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Dec 13, 2015 4:45:57 GMT -5
yeah you're right Rog...we should just shut up and buy all the merchandise and tickets we can and kiss Bobby Evans' ass without any thought of criticism, right or wrong. Blind ignorance is bliss.
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Post by rxmeister on Dec 13, 2015 9:02:59 GMT -5
Big FA's still out there: SP-Cueto, Chen, Maeda, Kazmir, Leake OF-Gordon, Upton, Cespedes If the Giants get one from each group, they're a legit contender to win the NL West. If not, I'll join Boly and Randy on suicide watch. I'm not making negative statements about the off season until we see where these guys land
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Post by Rog on Dec 13, 2015 11:03:12 GMT -5
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 13, 2015 14:46:27 GMT -5
Mark-Big FA's still out there: SP-Cueto, Chen, Maeda, Kazmir, Leake OF-Gordon, Upton, Cespedes If the Giants get one from each group, they're a legit contender to win the NL West. If not, I'll join Boly and Randy on suicide watch. I'm not making negative statements about the off season until we see where these guys land
***boly says***
Bing-freakin-go!
Damn-Skippy!
One from EACH group, and we have a legit shot.
But don't count on an Upton, nor a Cespedes, Mark, and with the money Gordon, I hear, is asking, not likely either.
Give me ONE of those starters, AND a legit CF, THEN I'm on board.
And it's not a suicide watch, Mark, it's our honest, and hear-felt evaluation.
boly
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Post by Islandboagie on Dec 13, 2015 18:52:41 GMT -5
Since Bochy has said that he likes Justin Upton I think there is probably a serious interest in landing him. The question is, does he want to play here? And are the Giants going to come out with a strong offer? Or are they going to nickle and dime him long enough for someone else to swoop in?
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