Surrpised at the lack of comment

[klaiggeb]

Unless my counting is severly off... seems to me that Pittsburgh has yet to score in a post season game, getting blanked by us last year, and by the Cubs this year.

I was surprised no one mentioned that.

I have no compassion for Pittsburgh what-so-ever because when it comes to managers I have no respect what-so-ever for Clint Hurdle.

On the managerial moron scale, for me, Hurdle is in the top 10%

boly

[Rog]

I haven't been a Clint fan either, but he's considered to be one of the more informed managers.

Clint won the 2013 NL Manager of the Year Award, and this season was rated by Anthony Castrovince as the 6th most impactful manager of 2015. He wrote "I give Hurdle particular credit for his work with the bullpen over the years."

[klaiggeb]

I give no creedence what-so-ever to who wins those kinds of awards, Rog.

They frequently/mostly go to a surprise team that did better than expected.

Hurdle reminds me of managment in the district in which I work; We succeed IN SPITE of the leadership, not because of it.

If Hurdle is considered one of the more "informed" managers, I can only assume that to mean he's "informed" about his waist size because over the years, I've seen him out managed again and again and again.

boly

[Rog]

Most people have a good side. We should look for it:


Hurdle has been sober for 16 years.

Hurdle, 57, has made the most of those years. He has two children with Karla. He became a better person, jumping into philanthropy in a big way. He sends out daily inspirational messages to a long list of family, friends and acquaintances, ending each, “Make a difference today. Love, Clint.”

“[In 1998], I made a decision that I was going to become a servant from here on in,” Hurdle said. “Before then, I wanted to be served.

“I’m not afraid to tell people I love them. I want them to know I’m there if they need a hand.”

Hurdle describes himself as “the most optimistic person in the world.” That was exactly what the Pirates needed after they went 57-105 in 2010 under manager John Russell, their 18th consecutive losing season.

"Talk about resurrecting the dead.

Hurdle led the Pirates to the playoffs in 2013 and 2014. It’s not enough to say the players have responded to him. They thought so much of him in 2013 that they asked if it would be OK if they celebrated their first playoff spot in 21 years with Champagne. They were thrilled when he said yes. Last season, when the players had a similar celebration, they waited for Hurdle, who was moving slowly because of a bad hip, to get in the middle of the party before popping the corks. “Humbling,” Hurdle called it."



We realize that in-game management is a small part of a manager's ability to help his team win games, don't we? If we believe in team chamistry, we realize that the manager's primary duty is to manage -- his players, more so than the game itself.

Not to say managers don't make mistakes. Decisions often have to be made very quickly and even set up in advance. The decisions aren't totally different from a referee's in that regard. Or sometimes a policeman's. But in-game decisions are actually child' play compared to the difficult task of motivating 25 young men.

[klaiggeb]

Roger, I never addressed Clint, the person.

I addressed Clint, the manager, whom I have observed and have concluded that, as a manager, he is an incompetent moron.

To me he personifies the Peter Principal; promoted to the point of incompetence.

It is my contention that Pittsburgh is successful in spite of, not because of his leadership.

boly

[Rog]

It appears that Clint is a good motivator, and isn't that the primary purpose of a manager?

[klaiggeb]

Fine.

Rog, you like him, I don't.

I've seen him out managed too many times.

boly

[Islandboagie]

I've never really liked Clint Hurdle. He was a poor manager with Colorado, and he also lowered his standing with me by complaining about Bochy's All-Star selections in 2011.

[Rog]

I don't have a strong feeling about Hurdle one way or the other, but I think he should be given both credit and blame.

As for his complaining about Bochy's choices, they shouldn't put the All-Star manager in the position where he is forced to choose between players he has an allegiance to and players who might be more deserving. I don't blame Clint for complaining. The fault lies with MLB.

[Islandboagie]

You don't have a problem with a manager making a remark in the media about another manager's all-star selections? It's juvenile, Rog, and shows a total lack of understanding the situation. A grown man who's been around the game his entire life should know better. If Clint Hurdle wants his picks, then he should go win a pennant.

[Rog]

You don't have a problem with a manager making a remark in the media about another manager's all-star selections? It's juvenile, Rog, and shows a total lack of understanding the situation.


Rog -- You're right about that. Clint should have voiced his opinions in private. But you can bet that his players not only supported his comments, they likely rallied around them.

With regard to human decency, Clint was very wrong. With regard to motivating his players by showing how strongly he was behind them, he probably was right.

I don't think Clint is close to being the best manager in the game. But I'll bet he's better than most.

In another post, we talked about how the Giants have fared compared to the number of wins predicted by their run differential. That is considered one measure of a manager. Under Clint, the Pirates have won more than would be expected in each of his five seasons, with his total advantage being +15 games. That's rather impressive.

Again, I entered into this discussion with a rather neutral opinion of Clint. Until this season, it was actually negative. But as I have studied his situation as a result of this thread, I have gained a higher appreciation for him.

Researching something takes work, but it is usually rewarding. One either finds that his initial belief was pretty accurate -- or he learns something new. Oft times both.

It's only five o'clock, and I've already learned a fair amount. I know more now than when I went to bed last night. And that's a good thing. it means that something besides my waistline is growing!



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