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Post by Rog on Oct 7, 2015 21:41:45 GMT -5
The San Francisco Business Times wrote that "by the sound of it (after the team press conference), the franchise is ready to go to the ends of the earth in its quest to score another trip to the World Series." I don't think that's an accurate interpretation of the Giants' intentions any more than the "gloom and doom" interpretation being espoused by some on the board. It does point though to how foolish that cup 110% empty approach is.
I wonder if Bobby Evans' comment that the Giants don't want to equal the Dodgers' rotation but rather pass them offers any succor to the cup empty team. I wonder if his comment that the Giants have AT LEAST one hole in the rotation helps them. I wonder if those who think the Giants aren't true players in the international market heard Evans say "at least three times" according to SFBT.
The question I would ask is, shall we discuss what the Giants might do and then see how they do it -- or just crawl in a hole of depression? Some here seem to think that Chicken Little was an optimist.
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sfgdood
Long time member 
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Oct 7, 2015 23:20:26 GMT -5
I also heard Evans say he hasn't closed the door on Lincecum and Vogelsong yet. That's not good. He also said he's thinking of solutions from the minor leagues...also not encouraging. Bochy on KNBR basically said the injuries cost the team the playoffs which was a real shock to me because I've never known Bochy to make excuses. All of these statements give me pause for optimism.
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Oct 8, 2015 0:22:24 GMT -5
Another ominous quote from Evans..."the best options aren't always the most expensive ones." Sounds like he's preparing us to not expect them to go after the top 3
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Post by rxmeister on Oct 8, 2015 7:06:14 GMT -5
I'm not going to try to interpret their comments at a media session, where they only tell you just so much. As the conflicting opinions of Randy and that newspaper show, you can interpret comments either way. Actions speak louder than words. I believe they'll go after the top starters, but are lowering expectations because we all know they don't have the stomach for a real bidding war. "Oh, we offered 175 and they offered 200? Ok, on to the next guy!" They'll sign Leake and throw big money at the big starters, but will back down if the players want top dollar and other teams are willing to give it. I think they'll take a token run at Price, and focus on Zimmerman, but if the price sky rockets and multiple teams emerge, they'll bow out and leak to the media that they had the second highest offer.
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Oct 8, 2015 11:38:20 GMT -5
exactly what I've been talking about, Rx. They aren't exactly cheap like the Charley O days in Oakland but they aren't going to do what's necessary to land the big fish. That is a problem right now because the farm system doesn't have the pitching prospects to replace what we've been losing of late. There are several varieties of "going cheap" and when you have the revenue stream that the Giants do, it definitely can be seen as going cheap when you do not win some of these bidding wars.
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Post by Rog on Oct 8, 2015 16:50:00 GMT -5
A few questions:
With the season just concluded would it make sense to say that you are cutting ties with two players who have been important to the team? Let's suppose you could sign one of them for $1 million plus incentives. Might that not make sense for a team which experienced a ton of injuries to its rotation last season? Probably not, but why rule it out already? Just makes you look stupid if for some reason you have to fall back on it.
Aren't facts sometimes reasons, not excuses? Do you think that if not for the injuries, the Giants would have made the playoffs? I think there is a good chance they would have. Let's put it this way: Staying healthy would almost certainly have had a bigger impact than signing any of the top targets.
Aren't you taking the "possible solutions from the minor leagues" out of context? Did you forget that Evans also mentioned free agents trades and the international market, the last of the three at least three times? At this point would it make sense to rule out ANY of these? And how about THIS scenario? One of the starting pitchers in place suddenly badly hurts his arm, so the Giants sign Price and Leake -- and then rely on the Pacific Coast ERA leader as their fifth starter. Under the circumstances of losing a top starter to injury, would Price, Leake and Blackburn be so bad? That would be relying on the minor leagues, wouldn't it?
As for the "best options aren't always the most expensive ones" comments, might that not show that the Giants learned something last winter, when signing one of their top three targets would have given results that were anywhere from disastrous to questionable?
It is almost certainly wise to keep all options open, and even if one were focusing on a particular direction, would it make sense to announce it to the sporting world?
Incidentally, I agree that Evans' true statement about the most expensive solution not being the most should temper our expectations, but why wouldn't they do so? You know the old promise less, deliver more idea?
So, what would WE do this winter, and how much would we be willing to spend and/or trade to do it?
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Post by Rog on Oct 8, 2015 16:53:25 GMT -5
they aren't going to do what's necessary to land the big fish. That is a problem right now because the farm system doesn't have the pitching prospects to replace what we've been losing of late. Rog -- How do we know the Giants aren't going to do what's necessary to land the big fish? And don't simply say, well they haven't yet. As for pitching prospects, I agree with you that they don't yet have a strong stable, but Clayton Blackburn had an exceptional season for Sacramento, leading the league with a 2.85 ERA and reducing that to 2.02 in his last 10 starts. It's usually good to pay attention to these things when they're posted here. This is at least the third time Blackburn has been mentioned. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/3074/smart-ball?page=1#ixzz3o129qM7R |
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Post by Rog on Oct 8, 2015 16:55:31 GMT -5
There are several varieties of "going cheap" and when you have the revenue stream that the Giants do, it definitely can be seen as going cheap when you do not win some of these bidding wars. Rog -- This argument would be stronger if they had lost the bidding wars for financial reasons. And if the three players involved had been better signings. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/3074/smart-ball?page=1#ixzz3o135BFy0 |
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Oct 8, 2015 17:09:04 GMT -5
With the season just concluded would it make sense to say that you are cutting ties with two players who have been important to the team? Let's suppose you could sign one of them for $1 million plus incentives. Might that not make sense for a team which experienced a ton of injuries to its rotation last season? Probably not, but why rule it out already? Just makes you look stupid if for some reason you have to fall back on it.
Dood - I'd rather sign two FA's and slot Heston as the #6 for emergencies. Nobody has loved Lincecum more than me but he had his own injury problems. It's past the time for him to move on. I think Vogey deserves a chance to be a #5 guy...somewhere else.
Aren't facts sometimes reasons, not excuses? Do you think that if not for the injuries, the Giants would have made the playoffs? I think there is a good chance they would have. Let's put it this way: Staying healthy would almost certainly have had a bigger impact than signing any of the top targets.
Dood - There have been three straight failed odd years and in each one of those years we have heard the same crap...injuries...bad luck...blah blah blah. I'm sick of it. Time for someone to take accountability and just stop the freakin madness already.
It is almost certainly wise to keep all options open, and even if one were focusing on a particular direction, would it make sense to announce it to the sporting world?
Dood - I see nothing wrong with letting everyone know we're going after the top names out there and that we mean to get them. Let the world know that we don't merely dislike missing the playoffs, we feel a moral obligation to the fans to make it back and get there every year. It's not a huge goal to be one of the top 10 teams out of 30
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Oct 8, 2015 17:17:01 GMT -5
Rog -- How do we know the Giants aren't going to do what's necessary to land the big fish? And don't simply say, well they haven't yet.
Dood - the point wasn't simply that they haven't been willing to go that extra mile with FA's, although that IS true. The point is their words seem to say they haven't changed their philosophy one bit...so why should we expect things to be different this offseason?
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Post by Rog on Oct 8, 2015 22:29:20 GMT -5
There have been three straight failed odd years and in each one of those years we have heard the same crap...injuries...bad luck...blah blah blah. Rog -- I don't know about the bad luck and blah blah blah, but there have certainly been plenty of injuries in the odd-numbered years. Usually the teams that win the World Series have comparatively good health and some semblance of luck. They are, after all, competing with 29 other teams. Sorry, Randy, but you're spoiled and have lost your grip on reality IMO. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/3074/smart-ball#ixzz3o2Okfw8p |
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Oct 8, 2015 23:01:51 GMT -5
Well you may think it's all about luck but I see it differently. To me the good teams adapt and overcome bad fortune. I refuse to believe that this game I have not only followed most of my life but also played a good portion of it required no more skill than a coin flip.
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Post by Rog on Oct 8, 2015 23:02:59 GMT -5
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Oct 8, 2015 23:06:42 GMT -5
You think that would really remain secret until the deal is made? Cute...do you believe in the easter bunny still too?
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Post by Rog on Oct 9, 2015 0:21:37 GMT -5
You think that would really remain secret until the deal is made? Rog -- Of course not. But there is really little point in revealing your hand until you have to -- especially if you're playing more than one hand, which the Giants have to do or risk losing out on Plan B and maybe Plan C or D too. You won't even tell us what you would do and how much you would be willing to spend to do it. But if history is a good teacher, you won't have any problem drilling them later. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/3074/smart-ball#ixzz3o2qzRsBO |
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