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Sept 24, 2015 0:18:47 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Sept 24, 2015 0:18:47 GMT -5
Why wouldn't you bring in Lopez to face Jankowski?
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Sept 24, 2015 0:54:36 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Sept 24, 2015 0:54:36 GMT -5
And now, why would you pinch hit Mac Williamson in that situation for his first big league at-bat? Stupid. I second guess Bochy less than most people, but these two moves were April/May moves, not late September moves when theres still a chance. Now that little chance we did have is gone.
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Sept 24, 2015 9:42:18 GMT -5
Post by klaiggeb on Sept 24, 2015 9:42:18 GMT -5
The choices were, Romo vs the WEAK, pathetic hitting Jankowski, or Lopez vs any of the RHB off the bench.
I hate the results, but I would have done the same thing.
boly
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Sept 24, 2015 9:45:28 GMT -5
Post by klaiggeb on Sept 24, 2015 9:45:28 GMT -5
Boagie-And now, why would you pinch hit Mac Williamson in that situation for his first big league at-bat? Stupid. I second guess Bochy less than most people, but these two moves were April/May moves, not late September moves when theres still a chance. Now that little chance we did have is gone.
***boly says***
My question exactly, boagie.
There were opportunities in OTHER games to have gotten the kid an ab. Like the other night when they rolled out the useless Noonan to PH.
THAT was the PERFECT TIME to get Mac's feet wet.
This year, and more than once, Bochy has made some more than questionable moves that I contend, he would not have done in the past.
Bumgarner would have been a better than the kid.
I mean, come on, Boch! You send the kid up there basically telling him, "Hey! We need you kid, 1st ab or not go win the game for us.
Gallactically stupid.
That one move didn't likely cost us the season, which was likely already gone, but as you so appropriately said, basically killed what ever slim chance we had.
boly
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Sept 24, 2015 13:57:11 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Sept 24, 2015 13:57:11 GMT -5
The choices were, Romo vs the WEAK, pathetic hitting Jankowski, or Lopez vs any of the RHB off the bench.
I hate the results, but I would have done the same thing.
boly
Boagie- I prefer Lopez against a righty over Romo vs. a lefty. Even then, if they pinch hit a righty we could have countered with Kontos. It was the 8th inning with two outs, Bochy should have found the right matchup. Romo against a lefty is NOT the right matchup. That was a must win game for us and Bochy played it like it was spring training.
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Sept 24, 2015 14:34:11 GMT -5
Post by sfgdood on Sept 24, 2015 14:34:11 GMT -5
gotta go with Boagie on this one...even a weak, pathetic hitting lefty has a much better chance against Romo than a righty would have against Javy
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Sept 24, 2015 15:57:36 GMT -5
Post by donk33 on Sept 24, 2015 15:57:36 GMT -5
gotta go with Boagie on this one...even a weak, pathetic hitting lefty has a much better chance against Romo than a righty would have against Javy dk..are you also saying you could pull Javy for Kontos if they sent up a RH hitter......sounds like Howard Cossell......pitcher still has to pitch to one batter unless I missed a rule change..or misread what Boagy wrote...
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Sept 24, 2015 23:33:26 GMT -5
Post by klaiggeb on Sept 24, 2015 23:33:26 GMT -5
I disagree. They had RHB on the bench all of whom could have PH for Jankowski... who, from where I sit, just can't hit.
I don't want Romo facing LHB either, but I prefer THAT match up, to Lopez against ANY RHB on the Padre bench.
boly
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Post by rxmeister on Sept 25, 2015 7:44:06 GMT -5
The season is over so it's kind of irrelevant. I see you guys were hoping for a miracle finish, but I wasn't expecting it, and apparently Bochy wasn't either. I think the Giants have more important things to do this offseason than fix their bullpen, but the last two nights have been disturbing and this could become a major problem next year.
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Sept 25, 2015 9:43:13 GMT -5
Post by Rog on Sept 25, 2015 9:43:13 GMT -5
Boagie- I prefer Lopez against a righty over Romo vs. a lefty. Even then, if they pinch hit a righty we could have countered with Kontos. Rog -- A matchup of Kontos and a righty pinch hitter would be very favorable, but by rule Lopez would have been obligated to pitch to at least one hitter. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/3049/why#ixzz3mlHN6ecq
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Sept 25, 2015 9:59:56 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Sept 25, 2015 9:59:56 GMT -5
We did have an open base, Lopez could have walked one hitter, then we bring in Kontos. That's what I meant by countering with Kontos.
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Sept 25, 2015 10:01:19 GMT -5
Post by klaiggeb on Sept 25, 2015 10:01:19 GMT -5
Mark-I think the Giants have more important things to do this offseason than fix their bullpen, but the last two nights have been disturbing and this could become a major problem next year.
***boly says***
In another thread I pointed out why I believe the bullpen imploded recently, and the blame falls squarely, and solidly on Bochy's shoulders.
He over used:
Kontos, Romo, Osich, and Casilla (who hasn't been himself for a long while)
Can't keep running the same four guys out there, 5 or 6 days a week, and expect good results.
As I posted in that thread, this is so UNLIKE the bochy we've seen in the past.
He had other options, but chose not to use them.
all of our guys down there are gamers, and none of them are going to refuse to take the ball.
But tired arms are tired arms.
I was one of those foolishly holding out for the miracle...but it's over.
boly
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Sept 25, 2015 11:27:20 GMT -5
Post by sfgdood on Sept 25, 2015 11:27:20 GMT -5
Boly stole my thunder...the bullpen was really fine but I was always expecting them to be gassed this month because of the inability of the starters to give them rest. And even Bochy shares in blame because I thought from the beginning he babied some of the starters and that just added to the bullpen workload, perhaps unnecessarily.
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Sept 25, 2015 12:41:49 GMT -5
Post by klaiggeb on Sept 25, 2015 12:41:49 GMT -5
Sorry I stole your thunder, Randy, my apologies.
This is what happens when you DON'T have starters who can and do go deep into games.
And we don't have them.
boly
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Post by rxmeister on Sept 26, 2015 7:32:39 GMT -5
I don't blame Bochy at all, and I think your own comments which you're using to blame him actually absolve him. You have lefties like Lopez and Affeldt who can't get out righties and righties like Romo and Casilla and even Strickland who can't get out lefties, so what is Bochy supposed to do? He has to get them all up every night and basically mix and match. And Bochy didn't sign a bunch of five innings starters, that's on the front office. If they bring in a top starter and a solid middle of the rotation guy next year, then they solve the problem without adding to the bullpen. That gives them three starters who can basically spare the bullpen.
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Sept 26, 2015 16:49:29 GMT -5
Post by klaiggeb on Sept 26, 2015 16:49:29 GMT -5
But Mark, you're missing the point.
Yeah, he had those guys...but they had been used, and over used so much in the last 10 days they had nothing left.
I'm sorry, I can't defend that.
I can't.
Just because you have a 'guy' down there, doesn't mean he's ready to pitch.
boly
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Sept 27, 2015 12:19:46 GMT -5
Post by Rog on Sept 27, 2015 12:19:46 GMT -5
You have lefties like Lopez and Affeldt who can't get out righties and righties like Romo and Casilla and even Strickland who can't get out lefties, so what is Bochy supposed to do? Rog -- You make a good point here, Mark, but I would allow Lopez to pitch to more right-handed hitters (although not to the point of overworking him). When Javier has actually faced right-handers and not intentionally walked them, he has posted a .679 OPS against them. Considering his OPS against lefties is a microscopic .338, that .679 OPS is plenty good enough to let him face a righty or two until he gets to more lefty hitters. Jake Peavy has a clearly higher .724 OPS against right-handed batters, and the Giants occasionally allow him to pitch to them. His .679 against lefties is identical to Javier's OPS against righties, and the Giants let Jake pitch to them on occasion, as well. I realize Lopez shouldn't be overworked, but he has pitched 37.2 innings this season. I'm guessing he could have thrown a few more. Lopez hasn't fared well against right-handers over his career (.808 OPS against), but just as Bruce should acknowledge how much trouble Romo (.943) and Casilla (.888) have had against lefty hitters this season, he also should be aware of Lopez's .679. It's hard to believe Lopez has pitched as well to right-handed hitters this season as has Peavy, but that is pretty much the case. Lopez has likely faced overall EASIER right-handed hitters than Jake has, but the point is that IMO Bruce should have saved his staff a little by not using Javier so much like a LOOGY. Heck, that might have allowed him to pull Peavy earlier on occasion. When I described Javier as a LOOGY above, it dawned on me that for all the criticism here of the metrics revolution, one of our posters the other day wrote about Romo's and Casilla's more or less being ROOGY's. In other words, he -- and most others here -- get the concept, which when it was originally posted here caused Marc to talk about hocking a LOOGY. Just think if Marc had had more experience with Madison Bumgarner's snot rockets! Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/3049/why#ixzz3mxXW6gOw
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Sept 27, 2015 19:21:53 GMT -5
Post by donk33 on Sept 27, 2015 19:21:53 GMT -5
You have lefties like Lopez and Affeldt who can't get out righties and righties like Romo and Casilla and even Strickland who can't get out lefties, so what is Bochy supposed to do? Rog -- You make a good point here, Mark, but I would allow Lopez to pitch to more right-handed hitters (although not to the point of overworking him). When Javier has actually faced right-handers and not intentionally walked them, he has posted a .679 OPS against them. Considering his OPS against lefties is a microscopic .338, that .679 OPS is plenty good enough to let him face a righty or two until he gets to more lefty hitters. Jake Peavy has a clearly higher .724 OPS against right-handed batters, and the Giants occasionally allow him to pitch to them. His .679 against lefties is identical to Javier's OPS against righties, and the Giants let Jake pitch to them on occasion, as well. I realize Lopez shouldn't be overworked, but he has pitched 37.2 innings this season. I'm guessing he could have thrown a few more. Lopez hasn't fared well against right-handers over his career (.808 OPS against), but just as Bruce should acknowledge how much trouble Romo (.943) and Casilla (.888) have had against lefty hitters this season, he also should be aware of Lopez's .679. It's hard to believe Lopez has pitched as well to right-handed hitters this season as has Peavy, but that is pretty much the case. Lopez has likely faced overall EASIER right-handed hitters than Jake has, but the point is that IMO Bruce should have saved his staff a little by not using Javier so much like a LOOGY. Heck, that might have allowed him to pull Peavy earlier on occasion. When I described Javier as a LOOGY above, it dawned on me that for all the criticism here of the metrics revolution, one of our posters the other day wrote about Romo's and Casilla's more or less being ROOGY's. In other words, he -- and most others here -- get the concept, which when it was originally posted here caused Marc to talk about hocking a LOOGY. Just think if Marc had had more experience with Madison Bumgarner's snot rockets! Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/3049/why#ixzz3mxXW6gOwdk...managers have always matched pitchers to hitters when they didn't have a dominant guy to relieve.....they didn't have fancy names for them, but they knew who stacked up to the next hitter....I don't know what the stats show, but it was always known that Hubbell pitched better to the good right handed hitters despite being LH...Hub's best pitch was the screw ball which broke away from RH hitters...
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