Good things that happened this season

[Rog]

Certainly this season hasn't met out hopes, but here are some things that went very right:

.  Matt Duffy became one of the biggest surprises in the game.

.  Joe Panik overcame the sophomore jinx.

.  Brandon Crawford had by far his best season, with the possibility of 20 homers remaining.

.  Madison Bumgarner showed no ill effects from throwing more innings in 2014 than any other  pitcher in the game.

.  Chris Heston became one of the biggest surprises in the game.   Sound familiar?

.  Buster Posey once again had a very good second half.

.  Hunter Strickland and Josh Osich showed great promise out of the bullpen.

.  George Kontos came seemingly out of nowhere to post a 1.83 ERA and allow very few inherited runners to score.

.  Nori Aoki played well enough to almost make us forget Micheal Morse.

.  Gregor Blanco had the best season at the plate of his career.

.  Sergio Romo overcame a horrible first half to post a 0.74 ERA and 0.62 WHIP in the second half.

.  Santiago Casilla overcame an uneven season to save 33 out of 38 games (87%).

.  Mike Leake was added, hopefully giving the Giants an edge on re-signing him as he becomes eligible for free agency.

.  Brandon Belt followed a nice but not special first four months with a .900+ OPS in August and September combined.

.  Angel Pagan returned from yet another injury and actually hit two home runs in a seven-game span, indicating his ailments might be healing for next season, that not all is      hopeless.

[sfgdood]

Sounds a whole lot like the old silver lining speech losing coaches give their losing teams after another losing season. Hey you can be happy with all this crap but I hope like hell the FO isn't buying this enough to sit on their hands AGAIN. They need to feel like they failed--which they did--so that they don't repeat their stupidity of last offseason.

[Islandboagie]

Cue the sad violin music for Randy.

[Rog]

but I hope like hell the FO isn't buying this enough to sit on their hands AGAIN.


Rog -- I can promise that won't happen, since they didn't sit on their hands this past winter. By the way, did you notice that the thread started out ""Certainly this season didn't meet our hopes..."?

We could list the things that went wrong too, but I believe all others were overshadowed by injuries. Does that make sense?

Very tough season, but one that does give the Giants something to build on. Would it really help if they were able to sign a top-three pitcher plus Leake? Of course it would, and you can be sure that will be their goal. My guess is that they will be willing to go pretty close to $200 million to accomplish it.

That would also mean two long commitments. But this time I think it could be worth it. Leake is only 27 (almost 28), and Zimmermann is just 29. Cueto is also just 29. Price is 30, and should Greinke become a free agent, he's about to turn 32.

Speaking of Cueto, by the way, he is pitching very poorly right now -- but still has a 3.47 ERA. What caught my attention though is his ERA the previous four seasons -- 2.31, 2.78, 2.82 (injury-shortened) and 2.25. Those numbers make last year's Big Three look like middle-of-the-rotation guys. I'm pretty sure that from 2011 through 2014, Johnny had the lowest ERA of any starter except the nonpareil, Clayton Kershaw. In 2010, Cueto's ERA was 3.64, so since 2010 he's been an awesome pitcher in the National League.

For whatever reason, after a really fine start with Kansas City, he's lost it. Maybe that will drive his price down slightly. Let's not forget that this year's Big Three will be paid handsomely. Last season's Big 3 averaged right around $25 million per season. One would think this off-season's top three will average at least as much, since they're probably both better and younger than last year's.

An investment in any one of the Big 3 plus Leake would be very expensive (likely close to the $40 million per season area), but it might prove to be a good investment for the Giants. It would enable them to put together a very nice rotation, one that could become even better if Matt Cain can find himself again.

And as I mentioned, we might not want to forget Clayton Blackburn. I'm not a huge fan, but he's certainly a better prospect than Chris Heston was a year ago, and Chris had a very nice rookie season. That 2.03 ERA in Clayton's last 10 starts was impressive.

And no, the Giants don't want to count on Blackburn. But he looks like he could be very nice insurance. Maybe they'll let Petit go, and Clayton will become the long man.

The Giants also have some decent players to trade if they so choose. Meanwhile, think of the rotation possibilities, a good returning bullpen, the best catcher and possibly the best infield in the game, and an outfield of Pence, Pagan, Aoki, Blanco and Byrd. With Perez as insurance.

The Giants actually appear to be only two starters away from perhaps fielding their best team in over a decade. But yeah, those two pitchers seem very important. I think Leake will be back, and there certainly is a decent possibility of landing one of this year's Big 3. Plus, one could envision a backup plan of filling one of those two holes via trade. Guys like Susac, Tomlinson and Blackburn should have some trade value.


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[sfgdood]

Cue the sad violin music for Randy.

Dood - no, sad would have been if I had fled this forum because I couldn't handle the truth about this season. I would say anger and embarrassment is more my emotions right about now. Hoping the FO learned their lesson.

[Rog]

I guess it's all perspective, but despite my disappointment with how this season is apparently going to end, I'm quite happy with a franchise that has won three World Championships the past six seasons, has the 4th-highest payroll in baseball, and appears likely not to let a ceiling lower than $200 million in payroll stop their quest to sign Mike Leake and one of the top free agent pitchers.

Will they succeed in that? Lots of hurdles to overcome, such as other teams willing to spend vast amounts on the same targets the Giants are forming. But the Giants showed last winter that money wasn't an insurmountable hurdle if they could win the bidding war of their choice.

Maybe you didn't feel the pain of not winning a World Championship for 55 years, Randy, and are now spoiled thinking the Giants should win every season, that every OTHER season isn't enough. But personally I'm happy with the success they've had. They've had a lot of excellent teams in my lifetime, and only the 2010, 2012 and 2014 versions won it all.

We can play spoiled babies and criticize the Giants for not spending higher than the top four, or we can enjoy the huge success they've had and realize they're trying hard for more.

Hard enough for you? Probably not. Hard enough for a reasonable person? Probably. Don't mean to be harsh, but I'm not into spoiled people.

[klaiggeb]

But Rog, I don't think it's a case of Randy, or me for that matter, being spoiled.

What Randy is upset with, and so am I, is this "just good enough" mentality that the FA has been demonstrating.

We're not asking them to go out and spend Dodger dollars, or anything like that.

We just expect the FA to seriously address the team's needs, which we contend they did not do in 2011, 2013, and 2015.

That's it.

boly

[Islandboagie]

What could have been done in 2011? We had the best pitching staff in all of baseball, an offense that was extremely potent after calling up Posey and acquiring Burrell and Ross and a very deep bench. We were looking very solid entering the 2011 season.

2013, I agree with you. I think we dropped the ball on bench depth.

This season I think they should have pushed harder for a starter and another outfielder. However, the knee jerk reaction was to resign Sandoval, Morse and pickup a front line starter like Lester or Shields. Knowing what we know now, that probably would have been a worse outcome for us. The Giants made the right move by signing Aoki and McGehee, and not signing Morse (who is now exclusively a first baseman) and locking down Sandoval to a long term deal. McGehee didn't work out, but it was a mistake the Giants weren't going to regret for years to come.

I don't think the pitching has been nearly as bad as is suggested by people on this board. Our ERA is below league average, and below the Nationals whom were considered the best pitching staff entering the season.

That being said, the Giants need to strive for better than just an OK pitching staff. With the uncertainty of Cain's arm and Hudson retiring, its time to retool. For the Giants to get back to having a dominating staff, they need to pickup one of the top pitchers. If they get Greinke they automatically become one of the best staffs in baseball again.

[Rog]

We just expect the FA to seriously address the team's needs, which we contend they did not do in 2011, 2013, and 2015.

That's it.


Rog -- In 2011 the Giants increased their payroll by $22 million from $96 million. In 2013 they moved up $6 million from $131 million. This past winter they went up by $24 million from $149 million. That's an average increase of 17%. They've also spent extra money at the trade deadline in each of those seasons, so it's not as though they have been cheap.

Most of their money has been spent on bringing back important players from their three World Championship teams. Last off-season they went after at least three big fish, but their lure wasn't what the fish wanted. This off-season there will be at least that many, and the Giants will likely do better.

Greinke would expand the top free agent pitcher group to four, but he might well elect to stay with the Dodgers, who would be locked in to paying him $77 million over the next three seasons. I would think he would rather become a free agent at 31 (now) than 34 (after those three seasons), but he also might use his leverage to get an extension from the Dodgers, who likely could afford it!




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[sfgdood]

Maybe you didn't feel the pain of not winning a World Championship for 55 years, Randy, and are now spoiled

Dood - That's your opinion. I was a season ticket holder when that FIEND Bob Lurie tried to sell us to Tampa. I was so upset that whole winter, my health was seriously effected. Same thing happened in 2002 when we choked in Game 6. Don't tell me I haven't felt pain with this team.




thinking the Giants should win every season, that every OTHER season isn't enough. But personally I'm happy with the success they've had. They've had a lot of excellent teams in my lifetime, and only the 2010, 2012 and 2014 versions won it all.

Dood - My opinion is you aren't a TRUE Giants fan. If you were you would feel pain when the team has the 4th highest payroll and still misses the playoffs. There is NO excuse for that. But since being "just ok" every other year is fine with you, I understand why you likely will never get it.

[Rog]

My opinion is you aren't a TRUE Giants fan.


Rog -- I wouldn't expect your opinion to be otherwise. By the way, the most pain came in the many seasons in which the Giants have been terrible since I became a fan. Actually, the worst pain was probably in the 1960's when the Giants likely had the team of the decade but didn't win a World Series and made only one.

And there was a lot of pain when Willie Mays was traded, and Chris Speier a handful of years later.

As the song says, "You've got your troubles; I've got mine." And as another song says, "Different strokes for different folks."




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[klaiggeb]

Randy, I would never, ever question Roger's loyalty to the Giants, Randy.

He just sees things from a different perspective, one with which I frequently disagree; numbers only.

Doesn't make him any less of a fan, just a different fan's perspective.

boly