|
|
Post by klaiggeb on Sept 10, 2015 9:49:53 GMT -5
If I ran the circus, firstly, there would be a lot of personnel changes in the off season.
And by that I mean, a number of fan favorites would receive their walking papers, and topping the list would be Angel Pagan.
a-He's going to be, I believe, 35.
b-He's never understood the concept of what a lead off hitter is supposed to do, as evidenced by his poor OBP over his career. Last night, once again, 2-0 pitch up and out of the zone, and he's swinging from the heels. If you're going to put on the Yuk-a-doo swing, at least pick a location and do not, not just hack away.
2-Jeremy Affeldt-
a-First the issue of his age
b-He gets hurt far too often, and those injuries are becoming more and more frequent
3-Vogey
a-I absolutely love this guy's heart, but he just can't do it any more at the level we need.
4-Hactor Sanchez
a-I no longer see what he adds to the team. Soft ball uppercut, so-so-defense, and, like Affeldt, seems to get hurt all the time.
5-Lincecum-I don't need to go into this again.
6-Adrianza
a-He had more than a fair shot, and failed miserably
Secondly, there would be a changing of roles in the pitching staff
1-I GET a legit closer. I like Casilla, but his time has come and past. He becomes a set up guy
2-Romo becomes my ROOGY One Out Righty Guy
3-Osich becomes my late-in-the-game lefty, not Lopez. Osich can get righties out, Lopez really can't.
Thirdly, I FIND 2, legitimate starting pitchers and I find a way to resign Leake.
That's what I would do, IF I Ran The Circus.
boly
|
|
sfgdood
Long time member 
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
|
Post by sfgdood on Sept 10, 2015 11:09:34 GMT -5
1. I wouldn't mind keeping Angel as a backup, or even to share time in CF...but not as a fulltime leadoff guy.
2. I agree, Affeldt shouldn't be back. With the emergence of Osich, Jeremy would just be a waste of a spot.
3. Vogey...thanks for the memories, but it's time to move on.
4. Hector, I would want to keep in AAA, just in case of an emergency.
5. Timmy...I'll always have mad love for the Freak, but he's been given more than enough chances.
6. Adrianza...joining Hector and Perez in AAA. You can never have too many guys with ML experience for insurance.
7. I like the Bullpen and Casilla as closer still, at least to start out. Maybe at some point in the year, Strickland goes from being the closer of the future to the closer of the present. Strick and Osich are my 8th inning guys with Sergio, Kontos and Lopez handling the 6th/7th.
8. Heston is in an awkward position, IMO. For good parts of the season he was our second best starter but the way things are laying out, if the Giants obtain 2 starters in the offseason, as they SHOULD, Chris could be the odd man out...the 6th starter.
|
|
|
|
Post by klaiggeb on Sept 10, 2015 16:53:25 GMT -5
I think you were right when you said the innings caught up to Heston, Randy.
Again last night, both Peralta and Inciarte reached over and OFF the plate to hit balls hard the other way.
Even Kuiper mentioned that he was throwing inside some.
every hitter is leaning out over the plate against him.
Arm tired is problem number 1, which I think causes problem number 2; location mistakes.
But for the future... I don't EVER see him much better than a number 3 or 4 guy.
boly
|
|
|
|
Post by Rog on Sept 11, 2015 0:02:55 GMT -5
I'm not a fan of Angel's leading off, but in his career as a lead off hitter, his OBP is .337, which isn't horrible. Not at all great, but far BETTER than a lot of leadoff hitters in the past who have been considered good lead off hitters.
One who comes to mind is Omar Moreno. Omar was considered a pretty good lead off hitter and even finished 15th in the MVP balloting one season, yet his career OBP was just .306. Worse, as the first batter of the game, it was .296, and leading off an inning it was .291.
In the time since he played, we've learned a lot about what makes a good lead off man. Speed is great, but getting on base is even more important. For all the speed he had, Moreno finished with over 100 runs scored only once -- and he required a league-leading 757 (!) plate appearances to do so. By contrast, Eddie Yost stole only 72 bases in his 18-year big league career, but scored over 100 runs five times. Yost's career OBP was .394.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rog on Sept 11, 2015 0:05:26 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by Rog on Sept 11, 2015 0:12:09 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by Rog on Sept 11, 2015 0:16:33 GMT -5
Thirdly, I FIND 2, legitimate starting pitchers and I find a way to resign Leake. Rog -- That's unrealistic IMO. The Giants would need to pay that trio about $60 million per season. Even the Dodgers are paying "only" $64 million to their top-paid three starters. I don't think any other team comes close. I suspect Greinke will re-sign with the Dodgers, which might make Mike Leake the #4 free agent starter. Is it reasonable that one team could sign three of the top four free agent pitchers? I'm pretty sure it's never happened before. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/3031/apologies-doctor-seuss?page=1#ixzz3lP6eUp00 |
|
|
|
Post by klaiggeb on Sept 11, 2015 9:51:00 GMT -5
.337 for a career is absolutely UNACCEPTABLE for a lead off hitter.
Unacceptable.
Period. End of discussion.
You can throw the Omar Moreno's numbers in my face all you want Rog, but you're not going to sway my opinion, or win the argument.
If I can't have a guy with a career OBP of no less than .350, I don't want him hitting 1 hole.
It's that complicated, and that simple for me.
boly
|
|
|
|
Post by rxmeister on Sept 11, 2015 17:59:29 GMT -5
Mike Leake might be the number four FA pitcher out there, but the drop off in that case from three to four is monumental. I can see three starters added as well, but starter number three would be one coming off a bad year looking to re establish his value, like a Jeff Samardzija. Or someone cheap and ancient like a Bartolo Colon. Still think it will be two though, and Zimmerman and Leake are certainly the ones the Giants have in mind at this point.
|
|
|
|
Post by rxmeister on Sept 11, 2015 18:06:51 GMT -5
As for the others, Susac could go in a trade, so I would keep Sanchez around for now. Pagan has one year left on his deal, so he stays too. Is it Pagan's fault he's a crappy lead off hitter or is it the fault of the guy who keeps putting him there? I've read that Lincecum is probably going to stay and it will be a cheap deal considering the hip problem. He could start or relief. I certainly wouldn't spend the money on a closer, they have a good deep bullpen and lots of young quality relievers in the minors. They're not going to spend a billion dollars, so all money they spend must address the greatest weakness, the rotation,
|
|
|
|
Post by klaiggeb on Sept 12, 2015 10:23:07 GMT -5
Mark, I disagree with you. I don't think we can live with Sanchez as the back up catcher. Not at all, and I'm guessing Bochy feels the same way.
Consider what Bochy DIDN'T DO when Susac first went down; He didn't start Sanchez hardly at all.
That tells me he's not sold on the guy, and really doesn't want him playing.
Sanchez has had more than enough chances to prove he should stay, and all he's proven is that he's not the answer.
But as to Pagan, I couldn't agree more.
Bochy continuing to put him in the one hole, WHEN AOKI is healthy, is ridiculous; no. check that; assinine.
Aoki is by far the better one hole guy.
So where do we hit Pagan IF he's still with the club next year? (Which he will be)
For me, 8th.
Why 8th?
Because he does all of the thins I want an 8 hole hitter to do, not the least of which is EXPAND the strike zone.
IF we're healthy next year, this is what I'd do.
Aoki
Panik
Duffy
Posey
Pence
Belt
Crawford
Pagan
And I DO want Aoki back.
I want MOST of our resources directed towards starting pitching.
boly
|
|
|
|
Post by Rog on Sept 12, 2015 17:17:39 GMT -5
An awful strategy and a foolish play didn't come back to haunt the Giants last night, but here they were. Both occurred in the same inning.
First the strategy, and you know I don't criticize strategy often. But this one seems clear cut to me. It worked out fine, but the odds were against it.
With one out in the bottom of the 2nd, Tomlinson grounded into a fielder's choice, putting him on first with one out. The Giants then had him steal second base. Why do that when Adrianza nor Peavy are likely to drive him in? The goal in that situation should be to make sure Peavy didn't lead off the next inning.
It worked out fine because of one very close play and a goof from the Padres. Tomlinson was safe, but he darn near came off the bag, barely holding on with his left hand. Then Adrianza walked, which would have moved Tomlinson to second with no risk anyway.
Now, the lucky break for the Giants. Peavy was sent up to execute the percentage play. A successful sacrifice would move both runners into scoring position (Tomlinson was already there.). But Jake popped up the bunt. Worse, he didn't run. I believe it was Kruk who said he Jake didn't know where the ball was, but that is when as a batter you DO run, just in case.
And the just in case happened. Because the bunt was popped up, Tomlinson couldn't get a jump off second. When Cashner fielding the bunt after it landed, no Padre told him to throw to third. If he had, Tomlinson almost certainly would have been out. And since Peavy hadn't run until the ball was fielded, he likely would have been doubled up at first.
The Giants haven't had a ton of breaks this year, but this was a situation in which they risked the pitcher's leading off and then were saved from a double play only because of a Padres mistake. Pagan then singled, and Tomlinson scored from second, although Adrianza was thrown out to end the inning.
IMO Bochy made a mistake here, one that could have been costly. Peavy's mistake could have been doubly costly. And there is no question Jake erred.
One could argue that Adrianza's being thrown out at the plate was a third Giants mistake in the inning, but it would have been less forgivable with fewer than two outs. All in all though, probably the third Giants mistake of the inning. The Giants scored a run in what should have been a scoreless half inning, but they also missed out on a potential big inning.
They were lucky to score.
|
|
|
|
Post by klaiggeb on Sept 12, 2015 17:28:34 GMT -5
Totally agree, Rog.
But both Kuip and Kruk said they thought Tomlinson went on his own... and I agree!
Bochy has proven over and over that stupid... he is not.
I'm GUESSING that Bochy and the staff spoke with Kelby either after the inning or after the game.
It's all part of 'learning' to be a big leaguer, IMHO.
It's always a growing process, and Kelby is in the early stages of his growing.
As to Adrianza being thrown out at the plate, I would not have sent him.
1-Upton throws well!
2-He had just reached the bag when Uptop fielded the ball.
I do NOT believe Flannery would have sent him.
Then again, Flan LEARNED the hard way when to take chances, and when not to... just like Kelly is learning.
I've coached 3B a LOT, and believe ME, it ain't as easy as it looks, ESPECIALLY when you're talking major league ball players!
It was hard enough with High School and college players!
To take it to the next level of execution?
Wow!
Again, a learning process.
boly
|
|
|
|
Post by Rog on Sept 12, 2015 17:47:56 GMT -5
I DO want Aoki back. I want MOST of our resources directed towards starting pitching. Rog -- Assuming Aoki comes back healthy, he was the free agent bargain of the off-season, so there is no question the Giants should want him back, even if for some reason only to trade him. Almost all the Giants' resources will go to starting pitching if they can get what they want. I read that the Giants have $154 million committed to next season. Can't remember if that includes the arbitration-eligible players or Marlon Byrd, whose $8 million option seems almost sure to vest. So the Giants have precious little money to spend on anything BUT pitching. If they stretch, they might be able to afford one of the top free agent pitchers and Mike Leake, with whom there is said to be mutual interest in his returning. Let's assume the $154 million includes the arb-eligible guys but not Byrd's money. That would put the Giants up to $162 million, and by doing some front-loading, they could likely get what they want for a total payroll of $195 million, which they would likely do if they could get a star, plus an excellent innings-eater in Leake. That would leave them with nothing to spend on center field, but Boly's idea of having Tomlinson learn to play center field seems a no-brainer, even if they're counting on him only as a utility man. And while Pagan is injury-riddled and by some measures has been the worst center fielder in the majors when he has played, at least he should be available to take the position himself or share it with Tomlinson and/or Blanco. An idea I saw in the same place IIRC was that the Twins might possibly be interested in trading center fielder Aaron Hicks for Andrew Susac. Hicks has hit .265 this season while playing a decent center field. He was the 14th overall pick in the 2008 draft, but might be available to open up center field for the Twins' top prospect, Byron Buxton, who has struggled since being called up at midseason but is still a top prospect. The Twins' present catcher is Kurt Suzuki, so they might want to upgrade and go younger. Hicks is under team control for four more seasons; Susac is under team control for five more years. It is a deal that might make sense for both teams, since it would allow each team to fortify a position at a low salary. Hicks has hit 10 homers this year in about a half season of at bats. He has been rated as high as the #19 overall prospect. He's about to turn 26 and has the equivalent of about two years' major league experience. I'm not recommending this; just mentioning it as a possiblity. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/3031/apologies-doctor-seuss?page=1#ixzz3lZ7KsrTY |
|
|
|
Post by Rog on Sept 12, 2015 17:49:22 GMT -5
|
|
