Quotes and cliches

[klaiggeb]

"Never give up! Never Surrender-Capt Taggert-Galaxy Quest

"We have not yet begun to fight!" John Paul Jones

"Nuts!" General McAuliffe-Battle of the Bulge

"What, me worry?" Alfred E. Newman- Mad Magazine

"It ain't over 'til it's over." -Yogi Berra

"It ain't over 'til the fat lady sings!" -Unknown.

Well, it' might not be over, but it's darned close.

When your team is not destined to win, bizarre things happen.

Like the call against De Aza last night.

Injuries pile up.

Line drive outs

Balls that don't find holes.

And there's not a darned thing anyone can do to stop it all from happening.

The idiots say, "well, that's baseball."

Well, I say, up yours!

Nice, politically correct way to try and make someone feel better.

But no matter how you say it, it doesn't make it any easier to stomach.

This season has become painful to watch, and though I know there's a month of baseball remaining...right now, it's just not fun.

It didn't have to be this way.

It didn't.

But I won't beat that dead horse again.

Time is fast running out.

boly

[sfgdood]

Time is indeed running short. The golf clubs and fishing poles can be taken out of the garage and cleaned up.

One thing I disagree with in this post...those "funny things" sometimes happen to championship teams too but when they do, those teams find a way to overcome them. That's why I always want the FO to build the best roster possible...not just one good enough that we can make some midseason trades and tweaks to just eek our way into the playoffs, assuming we don't get derailed by an injury or two.

I want the roster that says "we're MAKING the playoffs, no matter what misfortune happens."

[klaiggeb]

I call them "funny things...." because they are inexplicable.

When your team is going well, balls find holes, find gaps.

When your team is NOT going well, hard it balls find gloves.

Bloops DON'T fall in, and groundballs mostly don't find holes.


But I'm with you on the front office; I want a group of guys who (1) spend their money wisely (as in NOT like the Dodgers do it), and (2) are committed to fielding the best team possible; NOT just the best team affordable.

I mean, let's be honest: HOW MANY consecutive sell outs have we had?

Giant fans DESERVE a FO that fights for them, not just tries to pacify them; which I think is what they're doing.



Although I will give Bobby Evans A HUGE round of applause. Getting Leake and De Aza were solid, SOLID moves to make the club better.

Now, I want to see him do it in the off season.

boly

[rxmeister]

Leake is going to run out of here when the season is over and change his number so Evans can't reach him. Unless he wants to be the new Matt Cain though.

[klaiggeb]

Likely you're right, Mark. We haven't exactly scored him a lot of runs.

But, again my question to which NO ONE has replied: WHY don't more pitchers want to pitch at AT&T?

boly

[sfgdood]

To be fair, Boly, up until last offseason, the Giants hadn't gone after pitching on the FA market. Not for some time.

[klaiggeb]

That's a good point, Randy. I hadn't thought about that.

Still, Lester and Shields basically blew SF off.

Begs the question, why?

Wasn't the money. We offered a lot!

boly

[sfgdood]

In Shields' case, I believe he got bad advice. He obviously was trying to cash in big, which wasn't going to happen.

As for Lester, he obviously wanted to go to Chicago but I don't give Sabean a pass, regardless. It's the GM's job to sell the team and the area and Sabean just never was good at that. Maybe being an East Coast guy, his heart just wasn't in it. Or maybe he turned agents off with his demeanor. Either way, the Giants had seen enough so now we'll see what Bobby can do.

[klaiggeb]

Bobby made 2 great acquisitions during the season, IMHO, but I'm still going to keep my fingers crossed until I see what he does this off season.

The starting staff needs to be re worked, as does MUCH of the bullpen.

Time to cut loose some guys I/we once loved; Vogey, Hudson, Affeldt just to name 3.

boly

[sfgdood]

I didn't notice Lincecum's name there. Does that mean you never loved him or that you want to keep him?

[klaiggeb]

I could have included him/wanted to include him, but choose not to. I've created enough controversy about him already.

I'd let him walk.

boly

[sfgdood]

I'd let him walk too but I would hold a celebration at the yard to honor him before he left.

[klaiggeb]

Absolutely, Randy, absolutely!

He EARNED that!

boly

[Rog]

The starting staff needs to be re worked, as does MUCH of the bullpen.


Rog -- The bullpen actually has a pretty good base. Let's take a look:

Casilla -- 3.12 ERA, 32 of 37 saves

Romo -- 3.04 ERA, 0.99 WHIP

Lopez -- 1.50 ERA, 0.83 WHIP

Strickland -- 1.81 ERA, 0.85 WHIP

Osich -- 1.80 ERA, 0.95 WHIP

Kontos -- 1.90 ERA, 0.89 WHIP

Petit -- 3.69 ERA, 1.15 WHIP


That's six guys who have pitched quite well, and another guy who has done his job. It would be nice if the Giants landed one of the top closers, but Casilla himself is tied for 7th in the majors in saves.

If Derek Law can fully return from his Tommy John surgery, that would make eight pretty good relievers. Law had a tough return to Richmond this season, posting just a 4.56 ERA. But he also struck out 11.2 batters per nine. Law had two horrible games in which he gave up a combined 7 runs. In his other 26 appearances, he yielded just one run. In 5.0 innings over his last five games, he gave up no runs on 3 hits and 1 walk, while striking out 6. He was a perfect 10 for 10 in save opportunities.

Teams can almost always use another good reliever, especially a great one. That includes the Giants, obviously. But their base is actually quite a bit stronger than we give them credit for.




Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/3021/quotes-cliches#ixzz3lGbyMYdd

[klaiggeb]

Keep showing me numbers Rog, and I'll keep pointing to other facts:

1-Romo, Casilla both struggle mightly to get out LHB

2-Lopez can't get RHB out

3-Affeldt has been a mystery all year.

That's 4 key guys that can't be counted upon like they once did.

So, yeah, they seem to be okay, but all 4 have not been what they were; thus, rework the pen.

I'll be more specific. Roles must change. That's what I mean when I say re worked.

Affledt must go.

We need a dependable closer

Petite is a shadow of what he was these last 2 years.

Osich, Strickland and Kontos. They have been dependable.

The others, all too often, have not.

boly

[Rog]

Boly -- Keep showing me numbers Rog, and I'll keep pointing to other facts:

1-Romo, Casilla both struggle mightly to get out LHB

Rog -- True. That's why I would have Javier Lopez pitch some (full, or close to it) late innings. By the way, both Casilla and Romo are FABULOUS against right-handers.

Boly -- 2-Lopez can't get RHB out

Rog -- I've mentioned before that this isn't true. Javier has limited right-handed batters to a .179 batting average this season, although he has walked too many of them and has given up two bases per hit. Javier isn't great against right-handed batters, but he's certainly been acceptable this season. He's been amazing against lefties. He should be the closer in games in which the big threats in the 9th inning are primarily left-handed batters. A team's best lefty hitters are unlikely to be pinch hit for, and Javier has been death on lefties (an almost unbelievable .332 OPS against).

Boly -- 3-Affeldt has been a mystery all year.

Rog -- I hope you noticed that I didn't even mention Jeremy. I would be surprised if he's back next season. Osich has taken his role.

Boly -- That's 4 key guys that can't be counted upon like they once did.

So, yeah, they seem to be okay, but all 4 have not been what they were; thus, rework the pen.

I'll be more specific. Roles must change. That's what I mean when I say re worked.

Affledt must go.

We need a dependable closer

Petite is a shadow of what he was these last 2 years.

Osich, Strickland and Kontos. They have been dependable.

The others, all too often, have not.

Rog -- If by reworking you mean a changing or sharing or roles, I'm with you. That said, Casilla is among the major league leaders in saves, and Romo has been quite effective of late. But Strickland, Osich and even Petit may be ready to take on bigger, later roles.

You say Petit is a shadow of what he used to be, but apparently he casts a big shadow. His 3.69 ERA is only a touch higher than his 3.56 of 2013, and it's precisely the same as his 2014 ERA. His WHIP in those three seasons has been 1.19, 1.02 and 1.15. In other words, he's been pretty close to the same guy in each of the three seasons. Such consistency in a pitcher is rare. About the only guy I can think of would be Ryan Vogelsong -- and that was over about a season and three quarters in 2011 and 2012.

I have mentioned that the Giants may be missing something by not using Yusmeiro in shorter spurts. He's been by far his best both in his first 25 pitches and in high-leverage situations this season.

Now, I am going to back off a bit on what I said in the beginning here. While Petit's ERA has been virtually identical each of the past three seasons, his Fielding Independent Pitching dropped of a LOT this season, supporting your argument. It fell all the way from 2.86 and 2.78 to 4.25. THAT'S significant and certainly counteracts much of my original argument. The primary reason for the huge decline in FIP is his strikeouts being down a lot, which isn't a good sign.

Still, he was quite effective over his first 25 pitches and in high-leverage situations. All in all, I'm going to go with you on this one, although I am intrigued that Petit might fare better in a shorter role. One other thing about Yusmeiro is that he's done some of his best pitching of the season in August. I'm kind of shocked by this, and perhaps it is indicative of some kind of injury, but Yusmeiro has yet to be used this month. He was used heavily in August, and posted a 1.62 ERA. His K/BB ratio was 10.0. (20 strikeouts and just two walks in 16.2 innings.)

In August at least, Yusmeiro was very bit as good as he's been in the past, and even better than in almost all of his months.

Overall this season, Yusmeiro's swinging strike rate is down from over 12% to 10%, which is still very good. He hasn't gotten ahead as often, but his 63% first strike rate is still quite good (although down from 69%. His overall contact percentage has gone up from 76% and 73% to 80% this season, indicating a loss of stuff and/or command. His fastball hasn't been very good, although he hasn't lost velocity. His percentage of balls hit harder hasn't gone up. Nor has his percentage of line drives allowed.

I'm wondering if his arm wasn't quite right this season until August (an excellent month). And now his arm condition may have worsened again. It's also possible that game situations and the youngsters brought up from Sacramento have taken away his opportunities. I guess we'll learn more about this over the past 3 1/2 weeks.

And to be honest, the more I look at all Yusmeiro's numbers between the last two seasons and this one, the more I can argue that he has been less effective or that he's been just as effective. My opinion is that up until August he wasn't as effective -- but that in August he did some of his best pitching as a Giant.

He's sort of the old puzzle wrapped in a mystery and surrounded by an enigma. All in all, I would re-sign him at his present salary, but wouldn't re-sign him if it meant giving him much of a raise.

I don't know if your original opinion was closer or if mine was, but I'm leaning toward yours and am certainly much stronger toward your position than before this analysis.

I guess what it may come down to is, is the true Yusmeiro the Petit of August -- or of the four months prior. Obviously the weight of the time involved would favor your opinion. The recent nature of his improvement might lean my way. I'm leaning in your direction.

But if the Giants DO keep him, I would try using him in more short bursts and see how it works out. The evidence there favors Petit.



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[klaiggeb]

Petite? Rog, you can't break people down into numbers, and that's what you're doing; again.

I say he's a shadow because all too often, he's getting hit hard; something that didn't happen that much the last 2 years.

All I need to do is look at the games and situations into which Bochy has put him.

Yeah, he's the last guy in the pen, but his 'numbers' belie what he really has been, and that is, plain and simply, not as good.

boly

[Rog]

I went through a lot of things and basically wound up agreeing with you -- whether it comes down to numbers or not. I have a feeling that when I get into numbers, some here just stop reading and think, "It's just numbers. What does it matter?"

What surprised me was how poorly he pitched until August (although he was OK in May), but then how good he was in August.

As for whether he's been hit harder than in the past, all I can say is that he's been hit MORE (fewer swing throughs and strikeouts). As for contact, he has given up line drives 21.4% of the time compared to 21.1% last season. Hardly any difference at all. He's given up hard-hit balls 28.4% of the time compared to 26.9%. That's not as good, but hardly a big difference.

Now, it may be that the line drives and hard-hit balls have been hit harder this season. His home run rate has soared from 0.92 to 1.40 per nine innings. And as I mentioned, his strikeout rate is way down, from 10.2 per nine to 7.0.

Overall, his numbers agree with you, which is pretty much the conclusion I came to myself after looking through a lot of factors. And, frankly, he didn't fare that well when he went a long way. But when used in short bursts, he was actually quite good. For a long man, he was still pretty good. A 3.69 ERA is LOW for a long man.

You know, it's possible the Giants won't re-sign him. They'll no doubt be trying to save money for bigger things, and while he doesn't make a lot, he will likely qualify for more. But his fine August makes me wonder if he's overcome whatever ailed him figuratively. It might be intriguing to see how he fares this month. That might help us assess what direction he is going in NOW.

Anyway, Boly, it took me going through a lot of numbers -- with even more today -- but I have mostly agreed with you since the end of my research yesterday. I'm sorry if that didn't come across yesterday. Certainly it must have come across today.

That said, I think he still remains a mystery. For one thing, why hasn't he pitched even an inning in September after having such a strong August?

[klaiggeb]

Then I apologize, Rog, because I didn't take it that way.

It looked like you were saying Petite was better than he's shown us.

boly

[Rog]

I want the roster that says "we're MAKING the playoffs, no matter what misfortune happens."


Rog -- Very few teams in history have enjoyed a roster that made such a strong statement.




Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/3021/quotes-cliches#ixzz3lw9ZwtVd

[Rog]

It looked like you were saying Petite was better than he's shown us.


Rog -- That was my thought before we began discussing the issue, but now I'm not so sure. What most confuses me is the fine August Yusmeiro had, followed by still not having been used this month with half of it gone.

The deeper I look into Yusmeiro's under-the-surface numbers, the worse he looks.


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