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Why?
Jun 2, 2015 0:17:01 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Jun 2, 2015 0:17:01 GMT -5
Why did Bochy suddenly change the lineup while they were in midst of winning streaks and scoring a lot of runs? Pagan was fine as the #3 hitter. Ever since he made the changes, the offense has again dissapeared. Pence is not a #3 hitter. Pence should bat 5th or 6th. It gives Posey protection. I don't understand the idea of messing with something when its working just fine.
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Jun 2, 2015 8:54:58 GMT -5
Post by rxmeister on Jun 2, 2015 8:54:58 GMT -5
I agree and disagree. I think he was right about moving Pagan down, but Pence should not be hitting third. It should be Posey, Belt and Pence as the heart of the order. They should be getting on base for Pence, he's not as selective a hitter and won't get on base as often for them. As for less runs, they had the bases loaded no outs, Belt up and didn't score in a game they lost by one run. I'll take that every time. Give some credit to Gerrit Cole, a great young pitcher. Would have loved to see Pagan coming up after Belt though instead of Crawford. Bochy might be convinced, but Crawford is going to have to give me another hot month at least to convince me this isn't one of his typical fluky hot starts.
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Why?
Jun 2, 2015 9:33:27 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Jun 2, 2015 9:33:27 GMT -5
Pagan is hitting .319 while batting in the 3rd spot this year. We were cruising when he was there. absolutely no valid reason to move him.
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Jun 2, 2015 10:00:56 GMT -5
Post by klaiggeb on Jun 2, 2015 10:00:56 GMT -5
Sorry, guys, but I submit none of you were paying attention to Pagan's at bats.
1-He wasn't driving in runs
2-He wasn't hitting the ball hard, most hits were slapped.
3-He hasn't hit with extra base power at all
4-He has rarely squared up a ball in over 2 weeks.
And ya'all want him 3rd?
Posey is in one of his I STINK funks again.
He can't run, kills off rally after rally with weak-assed DP groundballs like he did last night, or he's constantly fooled, as he was again last night with RISP.
You don't put a base clogger in the 3 hole. You just don't. With him on base, you either play for the 3 run homer, or station-to-station.
I agree, Hunter isn't a 3 hole guy, but on THIS team, he is. We've got no one else.
And as for protecting Posey, what's to protect?
He's been so bad lately, no team minds pitching to him!
boly
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Why?
Jun 2, 2015 12:20:25 GMT -5
Post by sfgdood on Jun 2, 2015 12:20:25 GMT -5
I'm very much not with Boagie on this---although I'm not with Boly either. Buster was Buster in the month of May and the team followed. Bochy made tweaks to the lineup without it slowing the offense down. It's the team, not just Buster that has gone south these last three days. We can pretty much pick anyone out and he has failed to some degree. Aoki is slumping, Belt has had some big hits but also left a lot on base, Craw, well we know about him. About the only one still giving consistently great ABs is Little Joe. It only stood to reason the team would come back to earth sooner or later and it's happening. The question is will they sac up now or crumble like they did in April.
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Why?
Jun 2, 2015 14:14:10 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Jun 2, 2015 14:14:10 GMT -5
I'll say it again, Pagan hits .319 batting 3rd.
Pence hits .143 batting 3rd and .429 batting 5th.
Pagan has always provided a spark being a table setter. But, when deeper in the lineup he's not a scary hitter, he doesn't add protection. The best spots for Pagan would be batting somewhere near the top, being a table setter, or at the very bottom, 8th.
I'm inclined to agree with Mark's lineup, batting Posey 3rd and Pence 4th. Traditionally, that makes sense. Best hitter bats 3rd, best power bat bats 4th. I could live with that.
Obviously Pagan is not the typical #3 hitter, far from it. That was never my argument. My first choice batting 3rd wouldn't be Pagan either. My question was why change during a good offensive period? They were rolling, there was no need for a change.
If I had my choice, here's my lineup I'd put out there.
Aoki Duffy Panik Posey Pence Belt Crawford Pagan
I talked about batting Panik 3rd this off season, and everyone disagreed. I think he's proven that idea isn't as crazy as it seemed back then.
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Why?
Jun 2, 2015 14:33:56 GMT -5
Post by sfgdood on Jun 2, 2015 14:33:56 GMT -5
My point is this...there are optimum lineups and those that may not be the best option, either for everyday use or on certain days depending on matchups. The Giants got shut out Saturday but then scored 5 and 3 the next two nights. It's not like the futility we saw during the 8 game skid.
Forgive me for using a line that you, Boagie, have used on me on occasion...but the Giants do know more than us in this case. The players aren't putting up crooked numbers...it happens. I don't fault the lineup for that. I fault the hitters and credit the opposing pitchers who, lest we forget, do also get paid very well to prevent runs from being scored. Whatever's going wrong isn't Bochy's fault, of that I am certain.
Isn't it possible that the great run the team had last month made us THINK they are better than they actually are?
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Jun 2, 2015 14:56:48 GMT -5
Post by klaiggeb on Jun 2, 2015 14:56:48 GMT -5
Interesting Lineup, boagie; very non traditional.
And actually, one COULD make a case for hitting Panik 3rd.
Makes a LOT of contact, puts the ball in play, good OBP, the guys in front of him can run some, and thus he can hit and run.
With Aoki, Duffy and Panik in front of Posey et.al... that puts some speed on the bases in front of potential RBI guys.
I also like Pagan 8th; He's simply NOT driving the ball AT ALL this season, and that's why he cannot hit 3 hole.
And right now, he's in a massive funk.
1 Hard hit ball in the last bunch of games.
Plus, he's chasing crap way outta the strike zone virtually every at bat.
No way in hell I ever hit Posey 3 hole. None. Can't have your slowest guy 3 hole. Clogs up the bases too much.
And right now, he's Buster "6-4-3 McGehee" Posey.
Every single night with a runner on 1B, I say it, and it almost always comes true; "Here comes the week ground ball to the left side; double play!"
And more often than not, I'm right, and it happens.
I'm frustrated with Buster beyond words.
To me, this is just a replay of earlier this year, and a large part of last year.
And I seem to be the ONLY one who sees it.
boly
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