Which Jake Peavy do we want?

[Rog]

Jake didn't pitch nearly as well yesterday as he did last season, but he's still the same pitcher -- 75 pitches and out.

Because of tradition and possible stress on the bullpen (what are 13 pitchers FOR if not to handle that stress?), the Giants aren't likely to pull Jake after 75 pitches -- but they should, as we discussed last season.  (Boly was the first to point it out.)

Last year Jake's OPS against after 75 pitches was .841.  And we saw what happened after 75 pitches yesterday.  Jake should have been removed after he loaded the bases.

We're worried about whether the Giants will make the postseason this year.  Every win could make a significant difference in that regard.  Would we prefer to see Jake's being handled in the traditional manner and have an OK to good pitcher, or would we prefer to see him pulled after 75 pitches and be a good to very good pitcher?

Jake pitches after Madison Bumgarner, which means the bullpen has the best chance to be rested of any of the five spots in the rotation.  Why not simply have Yusmeiro Petit or Ryan Vogelsong ready to enter the game at the 75-pitch mark?  As we saw yesterday, every pitch beyond that point risks a cataclysmic result.

The Giants now have TWO long relievers.  Why not have one of them ready to take Jake's  place after 75 pitches?

Or we could wait for a grand slam as we did yesterday.  He's usually not THAT bad after 75 pitches, but why take the risk?  Either Petit or yes, even Vogelsong can throw enough pitches that if all goes well, they could finish out the game.  Why not use them to suck up innings, while making Jake a better pitcher by getting him out of the jam before he becomes toast?

Speaking of burning up the bullpen, the Giants' top four relievers threw a combined 4 pitches the past two games.  Only Javier Lopez was used over that time, and only he and Jeremy Affeldt (14 pitches) have pitched in the past three.

Why would we be worried about burning up the bullpen if the back of the pen is actually a bit underused at this point?  As the Giants approach today's Home Opener, only Petit and Vogelsong among the 8 relievers aren't well rested.  The Giants' top set up man and closer are nearing the point of rust.

Jake Peavy doesn't need to go beyond 75 pitches very often.  And the Giants can't afford to have him do so.  Forget the book and start reading the situation.

[rxmeister]

Peavy was one strike away from getting out of that mess, so I don't fault Bochy for leaving him in. I don't think you can start pulling your pitchers at the 75 pitch mark the first week of the season because your bullpen will be done by June. And Vogelsong is beyond washed up anyway. As David Bowie sang in the song "Cat People," bringing Vogelsong in is "putting out fire with gasoline." Sabean has assembled a rotation that with the exception of one pitcher, can't get past the fifth inning. Bruce Bochy has a tough job on his hands, and the Giants will have to stay with a short bench and ton of relievers all year. Remember when Colorado went with the 75 pitch starting rotation a couple of years ago? There's was by choice, the Giants will be by necessity.

[Rog]

I don't think anyone besides Jake Peavy needs to be put on a 75 pitch count. And in games where the Giants have a big lead, I would certainly let him air it out beyond that.

With 13 pitchers, the bullpen shouldn't be burned out even with one of the starters going just 75 pitches. It will hurt Jake's win total, of course, but baseball should reduce the qualification for a win to four innings anyway. That will very likely happen, but it won't take place for a long time IMO.

Let's remember that the Giants even went 12 innings the other night, and still their bullpen is well rested, even though Jake retired just two batters past 75 pitches.

As for Ryan Vogelsong, he may well put things back together. But if he doesn't, Chris Heston could well become a reliever to replace him. Or simply bring up one of the other Fresno relievers.

No Giants relievers were overworked last season. The only relievers who exceeded 60 innings were Jean Machi and J.C. Gutierrez. Possibly Yusmeiro Petit, who could likely pitch a hundred without a problem.

Santiago Casilla was heavily used in the five months he wasn't out with his hamstring injury, but Sergio Romo or Jeremy Affeldt are plenty capable of closing if Santiago isn't available.

I realize Jake struck out the batter immediately before the grand slam. But he had exceeded 75 pitches. With the bases empty, let him go. But with the bases loaded? No way.

Remember too that Petit does his best work in his first 25 pitches. He would have looked pretty good with the bags full. Or bring in Affeldt, Mr. Double Play. Sure, it was just the fourth inning, but what was the most critical moment in the game?

It happened in the fourth inning with the bases loaded. I think Petit was actually the guy to bring in, given that the hitters batted right-handed.

But it isn't second-guessing for either Boly or me to say Jake should have been out of there. I'm a fan of Jake's -- for the first 75 pitches. After that, I think he's a great inspiration on the bench.

Man, the Giants' outfielders just kept throwing to the wrong base too, withe the throw arriving too late and the even the cut off throw being late to second base.

But that's a different situation.

By the way, another way to keep the bullpen fresh if the opportunity is right is to have the 13th reliever be a rotation group of youngsters with options left. The guys can be worked hard while they are up with the Giants, then sent back down for a fresher arm.

With a 12-man staff it could be tough to protect Peavy. But with 13 men, there's no reason he can't be. Soon he'll be pitching between Madison Bumgarner and Matt Cain, the Giants' two horses (even if Matt may be a little short for a while).

It can be done.

By the way, the 75-pitch limitation the Rockies used was a good idea -- they just didn't have any good pitching and were pitching half their games in the league's toughest pitching parks. A four or five man rotation with a soft limit of 75 pitches allows the entire staff to work in shorter spurts, which is the way pitching is most effective.

It's kind of like the bullpen by committee. It didn't work until it was used by a good pitching staff. Remember how we worried a couple of years ago when the Giants went to a closer by committee? It worked out just fine -- because they had good relievers.

It wasn't the system of bullpen by committee that couldn't work, it was the poor relievers that led teams to feel forced into using it.

Same think with the 75-pitch limit. Pitchers pitch best when used in short bursts. The starter by committee (three pitchers each going 3 innings) can work too.

Someday these systems will be used and ultimately become common place. A century ago, who would have thought managers would be using four or five pitchers a game? Even half a century ago there were no closers or set up men.

The game keeps evolving. That evolution -- along with better athletes, better nutrition, better training and better field and travel conditions -- is why the game has never been better than today.

Don't let us old timers tell you otherwise!