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Post by Rog on Mar 20, 2015 9:44:23 GMT -5
Trying to use my brain before it becomes concussed, I thought it might be nice to return to the Giants.
What concerns you most about the spring? Is it how poorly the Giants have played? Is it Tim Lincecum's stiff neck? Is it that Ehire Adrianza might lose his utility job to Matt Duffy?
For me, it's Angel Pagan's back. I would love it if Pagan went back a few years and had the back become a non-issue. For now, I would love to just have him back on the field.
It is concerning that Pagan said he was ready to go, and almost immediately he wasn't. I don't know if it is concerning that his soreness isn't in the same area of the back as his surgery. Maybe the surrounding muscles are having to "take up the slack," and it isn't that abnormal that they would get sore. But he has taken an injection, which sounds like more than muscles.
Maybe there is good news that the Giants didn't spend as much as we wanted and didn't spend as much as some thought they could afford. The Giants' modus operandi is to leave money available for mid-season acquisitions, based on their needs as the season goes along.
Certainly it's far too early to count Pagan out, but it's probably not too early to look at alternatives should he not be available. And, frankly, I don't know what they would be.
The Red Sox have a glut of outfielders. The problem is that the two guys who might be good candidates are Daniel Nava and Allen Craig, neither of whom is a center fielder. In addition, the switch-hitting Nava hasn't hit southpaws, making him a poor complement to Gregor Blanco, who could become the Giants' center fielder by default.
There is still plenty of time for Pagan to recover, but I think it is time to consider him an even bigger risk than before. As has been mentioned back a ways, back's can come back. Pagan's has.
Hopefully instead of coming back as the problem it has, it will simply bounce back. Until then, the Giants outfield has its back to the wall.
Now, back to Ehire Adrianza. Can he play the outfield?
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Post by klaiggeb on Mar 20, 2015 11:39:42 GMT -5
In a word, Rog, EVERYTHING worries me.
1-I've said it before, I'll say it again for like the eleventeenth time; STARTING PITCHING.
It starts and ends there. Right NOW, ours stinks.
2-Offense. Our at bats are beyond disgusting right now. Even without Pence we should be scoring SOME RUNS... but that seems to be too much for the boys right now.
3-Blanco playing everyday.
We can afford one inconsistent bat in the line up, but we already have one: One of my favorites; Crawford. Can't have inconsistency and EXPECT TO CONTEND... seriously CONTEND, with more than 1.
And right now, Joey P is an unknown. How WILL he handle things when pitchers adjust to him.
4-injuries. Timmy's neck, Pence's broken arm, Pagan's back. When it comes to Angel, Angel with a BACK INJURY... that spells trouble. Time to look for a replacement, because as I've said before, back injuries NEVER go away. And he had surgery. Not a good combination.
I think our ST is a harbinger of things to come.
Given all that we DIDN'T do in the off season, ya'all STILL think we have a chance to compete? I don't.
boly
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sfgdood
Long time member 
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Mar 20, 2015 13:25:40 GMT -5
I'm actually less concerned about the starting pitching than I was at the beginning of Spring, which is not to say I'm optimistic yet. But at least they are healthy, mostly because they are being coddled. We shall see what happens when they start to get stretched out.
Like Rog, Pagan concerns me most, even though we should not be surprised at all...this guy has gotten hurt every freakin year. But I'm also concerned about Pence. His bone will heal fairly quickly, I've no doubt about that. He should return to baseball activity before my birthday on April 29. The tough part is re-strengthening the muscles which will be atrophied from non-activity for so long. How long will that take and how long after that for him to get his timing down? And what will our record be at that time? Will we be able to catch up? Will Sabean try to pick up someone else off the scrap heap?
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Post by Islandboagie on Mar 20, 2015 13:53:23 GMT -5
Rog- Trying to use my brain before it becomes concussed, I thought it might be nice to return to the Giants.
What concerns you most about the spring? Is it how poorly the Giants have played? Is it Tim Lincecum's stiff neck? Is it that Ehire Adrianza might lose his utility job to Matt Duffy?
Boagie- The worry isn't that Adrianza will lose his job to Matt Duffy, it's more worrisome that Adrianza will make the cut and Duffy won't purely based on Duffy having options left. Duffy is the better player in my opinion. He approaches ever task that is given to him like a seasoned veteran. He may not be as good a fielder as Adrianza, but he's solid in the field and at the plate, fundamentally he is among the best on the team, perfect for a bench role.
If I'm Sabean I try to get something for Adrianza. We seem pretty solid in infield depth, but with injuries to Pence and Pagan our outfield depth has gotten very shallow. I'm not expecting much for Adrianza, but maybe in a package deal we can get someone of value to add depth to the outfield.
Timmy's neck stiffness, as well as Pagan's back are two things that worry me the most.
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Mar 20, 2015 14:48:55 GMT -5
I would keep both Duffy and Adrianza. I like both of them better than Arias but I think Duffy could do with more seasoning in AAA. Adrianza does have that edge on Matt even though they are about the same age. If I need to make a deal, I get rid of Arias rather than Adrianza. There's no chance Adrianza clears waivers but Arias just might.
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Post by Rog on Mar 20, 2015 20:21:59 GMT -5
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Post by Rog on Mar 20, 2015 20:24:45 GMT -5
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Post by Rog on Mar 20, 2015 20:26:53 GMT -5
Boagie -- I'm not expecting much for Adrianza, but maybe in a package deal we can get someone of value to add depth to the outfield. Rog -- I'm the same way, but isn't it ironic that we usually look for the Giants to put together a "package" to acquire a better player? Rarely do we say something like, let's see what kind of package the Giants can get for Hunter Pence? Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2765/back-giants?page=1#ixzz3Uym2I6cV |
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Post by Rog on Mar 20, 2015 20:30:51 GMT -5
Randy -- There's no chance Adrianza clears waivers but Arias just might. Rog -- I don't think either one would clear waivers, but while a team might take Adrianza as a defensive replacement/pinch runner, wouldn't they be even more likely to take a guy who can play any of the four infield positions and has shown that he can hit a little even for the third base position? Does anyone remember how Arias wound up last season and the playoffs? Check it out. You'll be shocked. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2765/back-giants?page=1#ixzz3UymcpgS8 |
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Mar 20, 2015 20:38:59 GMT -5
Rog -- I don't think either one would clear waivers, but while a team might take Adrianza as a defensive replacement/pinch runner, wouldn't they be even more likely to take a guy who can play any of the four infield positions and has shown that he can hit a little even for the third base position?
Dood - If you can play SS, you can play any infield spot
Does anyone remember how Arias wound up last season and the playoffs? Check it out. You'll be shocked.
Dood - I remember his .581 OPS
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Post by Rog on Mar 20, 2015 21:29:07 GMT -5
Rog -- I don't think either one would clear waivers, but while a team might take Adrianza as a defensive replacement/pinch runner, wouldn't they be even more likely to take a guy who can play any of the four infield positions and has shown that he can hit a little even for the third base position? Dood - If you can play SS, you can play any infield spot Rog -- With the possible exception of first base, that is indeed almost always true. Adrianza is easily the better fielder, but Arias is by far the better hitter. My sense is that Arias will be the first infield backup, and Adrianza will be the second. Rog --Does anyone remember how Arias wound up last season and the playoffs? Check it out. You'll be shocked. Dood - I remember his .581 OPS Rog -- Awful, wasn't it? Think how bad it would have been without his 1.113 OPS in August and his .819 in September! He went on to hit .429 in the postseason. Counting that playing time, he had 29 hits in his last 71 at bats. That's a .406 average. Joaquin didn't get much opportunity, but over that period he was the most successful hitter the Giants had. Better than Pablo Sandoval; better than Buster Posey. By the way, did you remember how Arias wound up last season and the playoffs? That was the question. If you paid attention and have a decent memory, you did remember it. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2765/back-giants#ixzz3UyyyMJxS |
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Mar 20, 2015 21:47:48 GMT -5
I only remember that he flat out SUCKED most of the season. It seems for guys you like (Arias) you are more than willing to put emphasis on small samples and postseason...but if you hate them (Sandoval) small samples are meaningless.
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Post by Rog on Mar 20, 2015 22:18:53 GMT -5
Randy -- I only remember that he flat out SUCKED most of the season. It seems for guys you like (Arias) you are more than willing to put emphasis on small samples and postseason...but if you hate them (Sandoval) small samples are meaningless. Rog -- I agree with you that larger samples are far better. I used Arias's last 71 at bats to show he appears to have something left in the tank. He's just a backup infielder, but over his Giants career, he hasn't been a bad one. Joaquin has hit for only a .644 OPS as a Giant, so clearly he's nothing outstanding, but he does have a .266 career average, which isn't bad for a utility infielder. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2765/back-giants#ixzz3Uz7Vkhde |
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