Chris Borland

[sfgdood]

Ok since it's really slow on baseball talk lately, I'll throw this one out there from the NFL world. Chris Borland, a 49ers 3rd round draft pick last year and an all rookie team selection, retired after one year in the league. He cited concerns about head injury, even though he had no such injury since the 10th grade.

49ers radio analyst and former player Tim Ryan called Borland a quitter on KNBR today. Is Ryan right or is he out of line?

[Rog]

I like Tim Ryan, and he could have been right or wrong based on what he said.

I'm very sure he said it AGAINST Borland. But in the context that Borland quit and that is likely a selfless and wise move, I would agree with him.

Either way, for crying out loud, it's Borland's decision. Apparently he's a workout freak (and certainly a huge overachiever). I don't think he lacks guts.

But he might have something Ryan has but didn't show in this case -- brains. I don't know all the research, but Borland does. Ryan may or may not, but seems less likely than Borland's having it.

I was disappointed and actually shocked by Borland's decision, but apparently he thought about it a long time before making his choice. I suspect he loves the game, so it must have been a hard decision, not one he took lightly.

IMO on this issue, Ryan didn't think nearly as hard about both sides as Borland did. Ryan's JOB is to express his opinion, so he didn't really have time to research the subject himself. But at the very least he should have said that was his opinion based on what he knew and that Borland almost certainly had more information than he did.

My favorite football player ever was Jahvid Best. I once covered him in high school, but before the game I had no idea who he was, and afterward I still didn't know much beyond his being a star (at a Division 5 school).

But I was happy to see that he sighed with Cal and even happier when I saw how good he was. As a sophomore, he set the Cal rushing record of well over 300 yards -- even though he was taken out of the game only about halfway through the third quarter. It is my opinion that had he remained in the game, he would have gained 500 yards and perhaps 600.

Why do I think that? He gained 200 yards even on his last five carries. He was in a situation where he could barely be stopped.

But as junior he had the most horrific accident diving into the end zone of any player diving into the end zone that I have ever seen. He was high in the air when a player -- not the one he was diving over -- hit him from the side, knocking him further up and head over heals to the left. Best landed on his head and the back of his shoulders so explosively that I was afraid he might have paralyzed himself. He did go stiff with his arms out -- a horribble sight caused by going unconscious -- from the effects. An ambulance took him to the hospital, and at least he wasn't paralyzed.

That was the last game of his college career. Neverless, the Lions traded up into the late first round to draft him. Their coach said that while others stayed up late at night watching porn, he stayed up watching Javhid Best highlight films.

I did too.

But his pro career was cut very short when a week after scoring a 92-yard TD, Best suffered another concussion, against the 49ers, no less. I saw the play on TV, and it looked simple enough. He was tackled after a short gain and fell forward. What I hadn't seen was that another 49er fell and kneed Best in the head, causing another concussion.

This one ended his career. He worked like a fiend to get cleared to play, but he was never able to. He is now an assistant coach with Cal.

Jahvid was a tremendously explosive back. He could make cuts while losing very little speed. (He was a California sprint champ in high school.) If he had been in Borland's position, he would have continued playing without much thought to going any other direction.

But he never got the chance to make the decision. The damage was already done. I just hope he doesn't suffer long-term effects.

Borland had the choice, and he made it before possibly suffering a life-changing injury. It was Borland's decision, and while I am a 49er fan and wish he hadn't been put in the position to make it, it was HIS DECISION. Ryan was showing very little maturity in criticizing him without the facts.

That was Ryan's job, so I don't blame him all that much. But I hope Tim -- whom I enjoy and respect -- does some research and either says the research led him to reinforce his original comments or led to his rejecting them.

Should I be selfish and feel Borland made the wrong decision because he hurt the 49ers a week after they were already devastated by the retirement of Patrick Willis? I was surprised by Willis's retirement. I was STUNNED by Borland's.

But it was Borland's to make, and I would be a fool to criticize him for it.

Maybe at some time he'll have second thoughts and return to the game. He's such an overachiever (size and speed) that he could likely have a marvelous career. But the decision is his and his alone.

I have no idea if it will turn out to be the right decision. He probably no way of knowing for sure. But I respect him for having the courage and foresight to make it.

[donk33]

Mar 17, 2015 13:43:48 GMT -5 sfgdood said:

Ok since it's really slow on baseball talk lately, I'll throw this one out there from the NFL world. Chris Borland, a 49ers 3rd round draft pick last year and an all rookie team selection, retired after one year in the league. He cited concerns about head injury, even though he had no such injury since the 10th grade.

49ers radio analyst and former player Tim Ryan called Borland a quitter on KNBR today. Is Ryan right or is he out of line?

dk...I think the guy should be called smart...... take a good look at career footballers and most of them are still trying to recover from the beating their bodies took on the field...I played 3 years in high school and made the Fort Bragg team after the war...however, when I couldn't get out of the sack the next day...and I was due to be discharged , I said the hell with football...and regretted ever after...until I saw what happened to many former players....football was fun for me when I played tailback on our JV team when I was fourteen...when they moved me to guard, football became a chore...I liked the competition but not the injuries....the equipment is a lot better looking now a days, but the injuries are still there....of course I am still coping with the injured thumb I received in my first infield practice....and I still get aches in my  pitching arm.

[sfgdood]

I think it's wrong to assume Ryan hasn't done his research on the subject. He has been an NFL analyst, both national and now local with the 49ers, for a number of years now. It seems to me as an analyst it would be part of the job to do research on all subject matter pertinent to the league. Ryan seems to me a very intelligent sort and I can't imagine he would render an opinion on a subject like this without having significant background info.

The fact is, whether it is PC to say it or not, Borland DID, in fact, quit. The team had made a significant investment in him (3rd round pick) and signed him to a contract that Borland was not forced to sign, as far as I know. There was a commitment on Borland's part to the organization, to the fans and to his teammates and he broke trust with all of them. Borland has known all his life that this is a violent sport with sometimes very serious injury risk. His decision has put the team and his teammates in a very bad position. That to me seems less like a selfless act than you make it out to be.

You're right that it was his choice to make...but Ryan is also right that Borland is a quitter.

[Rog]

Randy -- You're right that it was his choice to make...but Ryan is also right that Borland is a quitter.

Rog -- You are correct that I shouldn't assume that Ryan hasn't done his homework. He may have. If so though, he should at least have mentioned that he did.

On the other hand, he may have a limited time bite which could make such a statement difficult.

As for his statement that Borland is a quitter, of course he's right. That's what I said the first time around. But it is the context that is important. It's quite different if he says Borland is a quitter in the negative sense (which I believe is what he meant, although I haven't heard or seen it) or if said he was a quitter without any judgment.

And you are right that Ryan is in an excellent position to have researched this topic. Covering football is his job. But this hasn't been a mainstream topic, so he may not have read up on it as much as he might have. If not, if he's a good journalist, he'll do so now.

It's likely this will become a bigger topic now that Borland has made his decision. It is also possible this will be the start of additional similar decisions.

Anyway, I like Ryan. What was the context of his comments?

Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2761/chris-borland#ixzz3UhGR97CP

[Rog]

Now we find that Tim Ryan DIDN'T call Chris Borland a quitter. Here are some of the things that have been written about Ryan's comments regarding Borland. After reading them, I am relieved that he didn't say what seemed to be a very dumb comment.

[sfgdood]

Here's the bottom line...Borland didn't have the desire to play. It wasn't a passion to him. I blame the 49ers for not gauging that lack of desire.

[Rog]

Randy -- Here's the bottom line...Borland didn't have the desire to play.

Rog -- He didn't? Apparently he was a workout fiend and a student of the game. Would almost have had to be. He was both "too small" and "too slow." That kept him from being drafted in either of the first two rounds despite an extremely productive career at Wisconsin. Yet despite the obstacles, did you see how WELL he played last season once Patrick Willis went down? He was Defensive Player of the Week at least once. I believe he was a Pro Bowl alternate despite starting less than half the 49ers' games.

Randy -- It wasn't a passion to him. I blame the 49ers for not gauging that lack of desire.

Rog -- The 49ers got a very surprising player with the 77th pick of the 2014 draft. He replaced Patrick Willis in the 7th game of the season. From game 7 through game 13, he led the NFL with 76 tackles. That was 71 more tackles than the next closest guy over that span. That's close to 30% more.

How can a guy who is undersized and "under-speeded" do that without some kind of passion?

You seem to pretty much like to blame everyone for everything. It seems you're becoming the new Allen -- the guy who believes that the only one in the world who can do something right is he.

A lack of passion? How would you know? How did he start only 7 games without being injured (head?) and yet in less than half a season make 76 tackles while the great Willis -- who might make the Hall of Fame despite playing only 7 full seasons himself -- averaged 81 the previous three seasons? As a starter, Borland was averaging twice as many tackles as the great Patrick himself over the past three seasons?

Is is reasonable to expect such great performance from a player lacking size and athletic ability if that guy doesn't have at least some passion for the game?

Maybe Borland is simply smart. Worst case, perhaps he overrated the risks. But the evidence indicates it wasn't passion that he lacked.

You were wrong when you told us when you started this thread that Tim Ryan called Borland a "quitter." I think it has just continued downhill from there.

Ryan did say that Borland "quit." He said that he wouldn't have made the same decision, although he also went on to add that he was sure he had "lesions" on his brain.

Ryan may be guilty of being one of those guys who believe that the game was better when he played. In a way I wish I hadn't read the transcript of Ryan's interview. I have less respect for him than I had before reading it.

And I still like the guy.

Here is a comment from Bleacher Reports that I think may sum Ryan's comments up well:

"I think Tim Ryan means well, but his comments strike me as somewhat ignorant to the fact that CTE, dementia and other trauma related injuries are a serious issue. Yes, there is a certain element of personal choice, but the more we learn, the more there is to factor into the discussion."

You -- and I too, frankly -- are somewhat ignorant of this research, and I'll certainly bet that Ryan hasn't researched the topic as well as Borland. I also think that when Ryan did or does the research, he has a bias built in.

He didn't call Borland a "quitter," and he didn't say Borland was "soft," but it is clear from his comments that he DOES believe both those things.

Here is what Mark Purdy of the Bay Area News Group wrote yesterday: "Borland played the game with passion as an All-American at Wisconsin and led the 49ers in tackles last season by going full-tilt. You don't do all that if you hate the game."

Here is what Leigh Steinberg (Jerry McGuire) said: "If you have a bright, young player who has excelled in college and at the pro level and then goes out and studies the concussion research and decides that, as much as he loves football, he has to stop playing it ... there's a problem," said Steinberg.

As time goes on, it is likely that Borland's decision will be respected more and more. If nothing else, it should give other NFL players pause. I love to watch the NFL as much as anyone, but it is sad that the players risk so much.

They're extremely well paid for that risk, but when someone makes the difficult decision to pass on those riches in order to protect his health, he shouldn't automatically be viewed as "soft."

Hey, I would likely not make the same decision as Borland. Maybe the research would put enough sense in my head to overcome my immediate love of the game. But I respect Borland for his decision, which likely is smarter than the one I myself would have made.

Tim Ryan said he respected Borland, but the way he couched it likely does indicate otherwise. Most (probably including me) would agree with Ryan that they wouldn't make the same decision as Borland did, but those who agree with Chris are likely wiser than we.

Either way, it's a personal decision, and what is to be gained by us for criticizing the decision of another unless that decision endangers someone? Of course, one could argue that Borland's decision DOES endanger someone -- the guy who replaces him.



Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2761/chris-borland#ixzz3UkID0qEz

[sfgdood]

Here's what I mean by lack of passion. Bill Romonowski stated that in order to get him to quit, someone would literally have to rip one of his arms off and judging by what kinds of injuries many of the great legends of the game endured to play the game, they all felt the same way. It has ALWAYS been known that this is a brutal game in which serious injuries are a routine part. Not everyone loves playing the game enough to take those risks. Evidently Borland doesn't. And what I mean by the 49ers being at fault is teams will now have to do their homework before spending a high draft pick on a guy who could quit after one year because the game isn't important enough to him to brave the risks.

[Rog]

Randy -- Here's what I mean by lack of passion. Bill Romonowski stated that in order to get him to quit, someone would literally have to rip one of his arms off and judging by what kinds of injuries many of the great legends of the game endured to play the game, they all felt the same way.

Rog -- You're behind the times, Randy. No question almost all players felt that way. I mentioned how even just three or four years ago Jahvid Best would indeed have given an arm to come back from concussion.

But so much more is known now.

Didn't it even get our attention when Hall of Famer Junior Seau killed himself by shooting himself in the chest instead of inserting the gun into his mouth -- so that his brain could be posthumously examined for the effects of all the hits he took?

I understand your point about passion, but let's just say that Borland's passion gave way to his sense after his research.

Many (probably most) others make the opposite choice. But Borland's choice doesn't show any lack of passion or toughness. What it may show is that he didn't allow his intellect to be overcome by his macho, as I myself likely would have.

The evidence must be pretty clear. Ever read the book by the guys who wrote about Barry Bonds and then about the dangers of head injuries and the turning a blind eye by the NFL? I haven't read it either, but I suspect it is a bit eye opening -- and that the research is even more so.

If a guy wants to put his toughness ahead of his brain health, that's certainly his decision. But to make negative implications about Chris Borland for his making the opposite decision shows a lack of understanding and/or maturity.

Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2761/chris-borland#ixzz3UkxMvowr

[Rog]

For you to criticize Borland and the 49ers here shows very little wisdom. Five years from now you may feel very differently. Or at the very least, attitudes and equipment will likely be considerably different.

Why is it that you so resist positive change, Randy? Allow your understanding to catch up with your predilections.

[sfgdood]

I don't see it as positive. The game is already being pussied down with all the rule changes and because the refs are being ordered to err on the side of safety. It's getting to the point where QBs can't even be touched. I saw a high school JV ref call a penalty on a kid who was the ball carrier for "leading with his head"...that's what we were taught to do when I was playing! 5 years from now we could be looking at a very different game and I don't mean in a good way. I understand why they do it...because the lawyers got involved. Football was, is and always should be a brutal game...that's why we like it. But the direction it's going is toward a softer, fluffed up game played by pansies and momma's boys. Tiddly winks in pads. Maybe chick flick clips will be the Super Bowl halftime entertainment soon. No thanks

[donk33]

Mar 18, 2015 12:12:50 GMT -5 sfgdood said:

I don't see it as positive. The game is already being pussied down with all the rule changes and because the refs are being ordered to err on the side of safety. It's getting to the point where QBs can't even be touched. I saw a high school JV ref call a penalty on a kid who was the ball carrier for "leading with his head"...that's what we were taught to do when I was playing! 5 years from now we could be looking at a very different game and I don't mean in a good way. I understand why they do it...because the lawyers got involved. Football was, is and always should be a brutal game...that's why we like it. But the direction it's going is toward a softer, fluffed up game played by pansies and momma's boys. Tiddly winks in pads. Maybe chick flick clips will be the Super Bowl halftime entertainment soon. No thanks

dk....maybe you have forgotten but football was almost banned in its early years...most people way back when thought the game was too brutal...I believe it took an act of congress to make it legal...."men" are brutal by nature, but sometimes it takes a person of wisdom to show there are really little benefits from playing the game...life shortening injuries is a heavy price to pay to play a "game"....

[sfgdood]

This guy is not only a quitter but a deceitful piece of crap. I just read today that his family knew last year that his first year in the NFL would be his last. But the 49ers sure as hell didn't before they drafted him. He should have let everyone know at the combines. And he also might have told somebody right after the season ended so they could have been looking for a replacement. I hate this turd

[Rog]

Randy -- This guy is not only a quitter but a deceitful piece of crap. I just read today that his family knew last year that his first year in the NFL would be his last. But the 49ers sure as hell didn't before they drafted him. He should have let everyone know at the combines. And he also might have told somebody right after the season ended so they could have been looking for a replacement. I hate this turd

Rog -- You seem to hate pretty much everything. Lighten up!

Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2761/chris-borland#ixzz3UvucHpgL

[Rog]

Borland says he began to think about the situation when in training camp he got his bell rung and considered that it might be a concussion. That motivated him to research the subject of football players and concussions. After reading the research and giving it careful consideration, he made his decision.

The bottom line is that the decision is his to make. It's his brain. Who are we to second-guess the decision or essentially call him a coward (or at least not tough) for making the decisions?

There are several of us here who are older than you, Randy, but you are the one who seems most to be caught in the past.

You have a totally ridiculous -- not to mention stupid and insensitive -- tag line right here by your handle. It ignores that teams in all the major sports are using metrics more and more. The're measuring things you don't even know about.

Now you're caught in the past on concussion research.

Do the research and then tell us what concussion -- er conclusion -- you reach. As far as we know, your brain is not concussed. Use it!

Yes, you're right that I have no right to tell you how to use your brain, any more than you are right in criticizing Borland. Here is the difference: You would be telling Borland he's a coward for protecting his brain. I would be telling you you're a fool for not using yours.

Or you could simply be stuck in the past as the world moves forward. As with Borland, the choice is yours.

[Rog]

From CBS Sports:


Someone has to call Chris Borland a hero.

It hasn't happened yet and it may take a while, but someone has to say it. When the 49ers and former Wisconsin linebacker retired from pro football after one season, he became the antithesis of the male American ideal.

Real men don't punt football. Usually, not without some debilitating injury-related reason. Certainly not without cashing in to some degree. Borland gave up a life of fame and riches on the chance he might suffer brain trauma?

This isn't even Patrick Willis (injuries) or Jason Worilds (religious pursuits) who spent a combined 13 years in the NFL before walking away. Receiver Sidney Rice played seven years in the league before head-trauma concerns forced him to retire last year.

Two Big 12 quarterbacks -- Texas' David Ash and West Virginia's Clint Trickett -- gave up the game in 2014 because of head injuries.

There was a time when all of them/us were less educated about brain trauma. There was a time when pressure to be that male American ideal would still have them in uniform.

Chris Borland is a hero because he may be the youngest pro (24) to make such a decision. He made it OK to end a career that had barely been started, to walk away with dignity from a sport that rewards those most who play through pain.

Sure, there were those who respected his decision. There need to be more who praise it. To a certain segment of football culture, Borland is the ultimate outlier.

An outlier whose message might get traction: The risk is just too great.

"It's incredibly difficult to go against the grain," said former Colorado quarterback Joel Klatt. "To be someone who is an outlier is difficult. To be able to have the fortitude and identity of conviction is impressive."

Klatt -- now a Fox Sports 1 football analyst -- estimates he had 10 concussions in his career. Borland himself told ESPN.com he suffered two concussions as a youth before getting dinged in 49ers training camp. Now he intends to return to school, perhaps to pursue a career in sports management.

No one is saying the NFL (or college) is going to run out of players because of Borland's retirement. But he did lend resonance to President Obama's statement, "I would never let my son play pro football." It reminded us that Pop Warner participation is down.

"I have two little boys, 3 and 1," Klatt said. "I desperately hope that they don't play football."

If Borland's decision causes a parent or a player to pause, then something will have been gained. Hero is not too lofty a compliment.

Maybe Borland's move won't change the world. Or maybe the hero bar isn't set that high these days.

Who can blame him for retiring? Who came blame Bobby Wagner for playing on?

"No offense to anyone," the Seahawks linebacker tweeted, "but I'm playing until I can't anymore. I love this game too much."

It's possible they both can be the male American ideal. For Borland, there are just too many uncertainties:

• We're probably decades away from determining whether concussion frequency could be genetic, an inherited trait.

"I know the type of hits I took ...," Klatt said. "I essentially had a weaker brain."

• There isn't -- and probably will never be -- a helmet produced that is 100 percent safe.

• CTE and long-term degenerative brain disease has been linked to brain trauma.

• A judge has denied a settlement between the NCAA and plaintiffs in a class-action concussion lawsuit. Some say that settlement doesn't go far enough to protect players to begin with.

There are so few clear answers on the subject that Borland decided to cut the questions out of his life.

For that he deserves our respect and our praise.

[sfgdood]

it's not the decision that irks me. I have said repeatedly it's his choice and if his heart isn't in the game then it's the right choice to quit. I just am irked by the timing of his announcement. He could have let the Niners know when he knew...it would have made things a lot easier.

[Rog]

What you said is that Borland didn't have the desire to play. Everything I have read indicates the opposite is true.

Borland will lose a ton of money, including perhaps having to refund 3/4th of his signing bonus, from this decision, so obviously it's not one he took lightly.

He wrote a letter to his parents last saying that he suspected his career would be short. He didn't say it would be, since he hadn't made up his mind yet. He was in Guadajara when he got the news that Patrick Willis had retired. He hated that the 49ers were about to get more news.

You keep jumping around on this, but Borland made the decision he thought was right. 30 years from now he may be very glad he made it. He didn't know what the future would bring, but he didn't like the odds.

Leave the poor guy alone and get on to baseball!

[sfgdood]

I said he didn't have ENOUGH desire to brave the risks to play.

[rxmeister]

Dood sounds like a frustrated 49er fan who is letting his love for his football team cloud his judgement. Where was this anger when Jake Locker retired last week at 26? And he plays a position where the ref throws a flag if the opposition breathes on you! If Borland was on the Seahawks and retired, you'd be rubbing your hands together like Mr. Burns on The Simpsons cackling "Splendid" over and over. However because this is your team and it leaves a hole on the defense, you're angry. Chris Borland is right to be scared by all the medical findings and be concerned about his future. He made a brave decision and a decision that will cost him millions. I'm happy for him, and I bet non-Niner fans all feel that way.

[sfgdood]

I don't know all the facts on Locker but if he had an All-Rookie team season straight away and then quit, I'd have been pretty freakin riled if I were a Titans fan, especially if he'd gone around telling his whole family that he was going to quit but conveniently kept his bosses in the dark.

Of COURSE it's his own choice and nobody has the right to tell him differently. But there is a right way and wrong way to do these things. He basically dropped a deuce on his teammates, management and the fans. He could have planned it out a lot better.

By the way, great Montgomery Burns reference...and I agree you were dead-on-balls accurate in describing what my reaction would have been if Borland was a Seahawks high pick who took a powder after one great season.

[Rog]

Randy -- I said he didn't have ENOUGH desire to brave the risks to play.

Rog -- Actually you said he didn't have the desire to play. That's a little different than what you just wrote here.



Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2761/chris-borland#ixzz3Uyv8yeyi

[Rog]

Randy -- if his heart isn't in the game then it's the right choice to quit.

Rog -- As you could see from the quality of his play as an overachiever, his heart was in the game. It was his head that wasn't, in more ways than one.



Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2761/chris-borland?page=1#ixzz3UyvuXbm0

[Rog]

Randy -- Randy -- I said he didn't have ENOUGH desire to brave the risks to play.

Rog -- Here is what you said:

Randy -- Borland didn't have the desire to play. It wasn't a passion to him.

Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2761/chris-borland?page=1#ixzz3Uywae0ze

[Rog]

Randy -- I agree you were dead-on-balls accurate in describing what my reaction would have been if Borland was a Seahawks high pick who took a powder after one great season.

Rog -- If your reaction was based on context and would have been different if it had been a player on another team, your reaction doesn't really have much validity, does it?



Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2761/chris-borland?page=1#ixzz3UyxL7j00

[Rog]

A bit of personal irony regarding Romanowski.

I missed the game in which he suffered his career-ending concussion, since we were getting up very early to go back to evaluate a possible acquisition in Columbus, Ohio. But when our return flight went through Denver, I saw him board our connecting flight and assumed he had stayed overtime in Denver, where he had played previously in his career.

As I passed him in the aisle, I complimented him on the fine job he did on TV with his draft analysis. I told him I felt he had an excellent second career ahead of him. Little did I know the context in which I made the statement. When I found out, I felt rather embarrassed.

[sfgdood]

Rog -- If your reaction was based on context and would have been different if it had been a player on another team, your reaction doesn't really have much validity, does it?

Dood - No, I'd still think the way it went down was lame...but I would be loving it if it happened to the Seahawks.

[Rog]

Rog -- If your reaction was based on context and would have been different if it had been a player on another team, your reaction doesn't really have much validity, does it?

Dood - No, I'd still think the way it went down was lame...but I would be loving it if it happened to the Seahawks

Rog -- That is indeed different. Sorry I misinterpreted.




Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2761/chris-borland#ixzz3Uz2JSwkU

[rxmeister]

By the way, Borland is giving back 75 % of his signing bonus to the Niners, which is a classy thing to do.