sfgdood
Long time member 
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Mar 16, 2015 18:46:29 GMT -5
Something sort of didn't sit right with me about something Miller said Sunday during the game broadcast. Ishikawa was at the plate and they were talking about his postseason heroics. Jon said his walkoff 3-run homer was "on par" with Bobby Thomson's Shot Heard Round The World. I disagree.
Both were walkoff HRs...both sent the Giants to the World Series. But Thomson's shot I thought was bigger because the Giants were behind in that game, which was also a deciding game. The Giants were in no danger of being sent home after Game 5 of last year's NLCS and they were not trailing when Ish came to the plate.
Both dramatic...both important...but for my money, Thomson's shot was bigger.
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Post by rxmeister on Mar 16, 2015 19:41:36 GMT -5
Jon may have that opinion, but if he were older and actually been there for Thomson's HR I doubt he would feel that way. Bobby's HR was much bigger and way more clutch.
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Post by Rog on Mar 16, 2015 22:20:09 GMT -5
Randy -- Both dramatic...both important...but for my money, Thomson's shot was bigger. Rog -- That's why they call it The Shot Heard 'Round the World. I believe Bobby Thomson's home run has been voted the #1 play of all time. I read or heard that it came in the first game that was nationally televised. Maybe Don can verify or contradict this. The Colts' overtime win over the Giants in the 1958 National Football League championship is viewed as the game that put pro football on the big screen, so to speak. If The Shot Heard 'Round the World was indeed nationally televised, it would have been even more dramatic and one would think impactful. Just Saturday I came across at the Friends of the Library sale Frank Gifford's book on the Championship Game. I'm not sure if there's a book on just the Shot Heard 'Round the World game, but I do recall reading once or twice a book about the Giants' 1951 season. I recently began a book on the Marichal/Spahn 16-inning dual shutout game finally won by Willie Mays' solo shot in the bottom of the 16th. I fell asleep listening to that game and and was reawakened by the excited noise set off by Willie's home run. I read in the book that this game occurred coincidentally on the 30th anniversary of the Carl Hubbell game Don has told us about. In that game, Hubbell went 18 shutout innings to win 1-0. Tex Carleton went 16 shutout innings for the Cardinals before Jesse Haines lost the game in the bottom of the 18th. In another huge coincidence, the Hubbell game was the first game of a double header, and the Giants also won the 2nd game by the identical score. That game completed in the standard nine innings, with Roy Parmelee beating future Hall of Famer Dizzy Dean. We recently discussed speeding up games. The 18-inning contest was concluded in a tidy 4 hours, 3 minutes. Amazingly, the second game went only 1 hour and 23 minutes. They had 27 innings of baseball completed in 5 hours, 26 minutes. In today's game, that might cover 15 innings. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2760/flying-scots-shot-ishs#ixzz3UbmFMYSy |
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Post by donk33 on Mar 17, 2015 0:00:08 GMT -5
Randy -- Both dramatic...both important...but for my money, Thomson's shot was bigger. Rog -- That's why they call it The Shot Heard 'Round the World. I believe Bobby Thomson's home run has been voted the #1 play of all time. I read or heard that it came in the first game that was nationally televised. Maybe Don can verify or contradict this.dk...it was the first year that I had a TV set...and I stayed home from work in Michigan to watch the game....I don't remember any one saying it was the first Nation wide t elecast... The Colts' overtime win over the Giants in the 1958 National Football League championship is viewed as the game that put pro football on the big screen, so to speak. If The Shot Heard 'Round the World was indeed nationally televised, it would have been even more dramatic and one would think impactful. Just Saturday I came across at the Friends of the Library sale Frank Gifford's book on the Championship Game. I'm not sure if there's a book on just the Shot Heard 'Round the World game, but I do recall reading once or twice a book about the Giants' 1951 season.dk...their was a book claiming that the Giants stole the Dodgers signals using a telescope 500' away in the offices in CF...I think it was a bunch of crap...Whitey Lockman was t he runner on second when Thomson came up and could have given Bobby the sign, but Bobby told him ahead of time that he didn't want anyone to tell him any signs....in another book, it said that the Dodger GM came into the clubhouse after the game and screamed at Branca for not throwing the pitch that was signed....Ex-Giants were quoted as saying they stole the signs.... I recently began a book on the Marichal/Spahn 16-inning dual shutout game finally won by Willie Mays' solo shot in the bottom of the 16th. I fell asleep listening to that game and and was reawakened by the excited noise set off by Willie's home run. I read in the book that this game occurred coincidentally on the 30th anniversary of the Carl Hubbell game Don has told us about. In that game, Hubbell went 18 shutout innings to win 1-0. Tex Carleton went 16 shutout innings for the Cardinals before Jesse Haines lost the game in the bottom of the 18th. In another huge coincidence, the Hubbell game was the first game of a double header, and the Giants also won the 2nd game by the identical score. That game completed in the standard nine innings, with Roy Parmelee beating future Hall of Famer Dizzy Dean. We recently discussed speeding up games. The 18-inning contest was concluded in a tidy 4 hours, 3 minutes. Amazingly, the second game went only 1 hour and 23 minutes.dk...no lights, the games had to go fast...however, you never got the feeling they were rushing the game.....Gus Mancuso caught both games...and caught again the next day... They had 27 innings of baseball completed in 5 hours, 26 minutes. In today's game, that might cover 15 innings. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2760/flying-scots-shot-ishs#ixzz3UbmFMYSy |
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Post by Islandboagie on Mar 17, 2015 10:56:21 GMT -5
I think we're analyzing Miller's comment too deeply. It was just a spring training game, perhaps the announcers are a bit rusty too. I think Miller probably meant they were both on par because they were both homeruns to win a pennant. But if you look deeper into the situations, there are numerous differences. As was stated, Ishikawa's homerun came during a tie game, Thompson's came when they were behind. Also, Thompson's came against the rival Dodgers, Ishi's didn't. But, when we look at Ishikawa's situation in his private life, struggling to stay in baseball, it adds to the moment.
Maybe if you consider all of it, and not just the in game situation, they are at least close enough to validate Miller's comment.
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Mar 17, 2015 11:42:05 GMT -5
It wasn't just the score (Brooklyn leading 4-2) but also the fact that it was the culmination of season-long drama. The big last month comeback, slowly crawling their way back into a 3 game playoff. Coming down to a third and deciding game, the 9th inning of that game with the loser going home. There's a reason all those countdown shows always list it in the top 5 dramatic moments. It bothers me when today's announcers oversell a recent event by comparing it to older more classic moments. It does a disservice to all who love the history of the game.
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Post by donk33 on Mar 17, 2015 12:34:31 GMT -5
I think we're analyzing Miller's comment too deeply. It was just a spring training game, perhaps the announcers are a bit rusty too. I think Miller probably meant they were both on par because they were both homeruns to win a pennant. But if you look deeper into the situations, there are numerous differences. As was stated, Ishikawa's homerun came during a tie game, Thompson's came when they were behind. Also, Thompson's came against the rival Dodgers, Ishi's didn't. But, when we look at Ishikawa's situation in his private life, struggling to stay in baseball, it adds to the moment. Maybe if you consider all of it, and not just the in game situation, they are at least close enough to validate Miller's comment. dk...for pure drama, the Gibson home run in the 1988 WS against Eckersley had to be right up there....2 out and behind by a run, Gibson goes up to pinch hit on 2 bad legs against the great closer and hits it out...it wasn't the deciding game of the series but it had great drama for the Dodgers....
I coached Al Corwin's kid in little league but never got to talk much baseball with him...he joined the Giants the same day as Willie Mays and had a big part in the '51 comeback....I wish that book about the Giants spying in the Thomson game had been written when Al was still alive...he was a friend of Sal Yvars the Giants catcher who had a big part of the spying story....and I still think there was no way they could have seen the sign and relayed it to Bobby in time for him to know what was coming...Thomson hit a homer off Branca in the first game of the playoffs in Brooklyn...no spy there...another dramatic homer for the Giants was Mel Ott's winning shot in the deciding game of the 1933 series...not a walk off...it was hit in Washington ...but it was in the 9th...
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Post by Islandboagie on Mar 17, 2015 14:12:10 GMT -5
Randy- It wasn't just the score (Brooklyn leading 4-2) but also the fact that it was the culmination of season-long drama. The big last month comeback, slowly crawling their way back into a 3 game playoff. Coming down to a third and deciding game, the 9th inning of that game with the loser going home. There's a reason all those countdown shows always list it in the top 5 dramatic moments. It bothers me when today's announcers oversell a recent event by comparing it to older more classic moments. It does a disservice to all who love the history of the game.
Boagie- I think Miller would probably agree with your assessment, Randy. Again, I think Miller just mentioned the correlation because both homeruns were walkoffs to win a pennant. Ishikawa's homerun wasn't that crucial because a single would have likely won the game as well. One could make a strong argument that Ishikawa's homerun wasn't even the most crucial homerun of the game. But I think we still have to admit, walk off homeruns to win pennants are pretty exciting. Thompson and Ishikawa's moments are without a doubt the top two moments in Giants history.
Of course, if we're considering everything that led up to that event, you also have to consider what followed. Bobby Thompson's homerun won a pennant, and resulted in the Giants losing to the Yankees in the World Series, Ishi's led to a more favorable outcome.
Either way, there's enough of a correlation to have this discussion, which makes me believe Miller's comment wasn't too far from reality.
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Post by donk33 on Mar 17, 2015 14:36:57 GMT -5
I sure wish you guys who weren't around when Bobby played would learn to spell his name...THOMSON...no P...we have had plenty of Thompsons, but only one Thomson.......I always thought that trading Bobby Thomson just before the move to SF was the dumbest thing the Giants did....since it took so long for Willie Mays to beat the racial trouble in SF, Thomson would have been a great "face" for the Giants...the problem was that Bobby lost a little bat speed and had trouble pulling the ball in the Polo Grounds....420' flies to left center were just big outs...moving to Seals Stadium was just what he needed...and he showed it in Wrigley Field...which had similar dimensions..
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
|
Post by sfgdood on Mar 17, 2015 14:43:35 GMT -5
I have known for a long while that there is no P in Bobby Thomson's name. But I do see even columnists get it wrong at times.
I have never seen Mays as having racial problems...leastways McCovey never did have such problems, being a fan favorite from day 1, or so I have heard.
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Post by donk33 on Mar 17, 2015 23:51:55 GMT -5
I have known for a long while that there is no P in Bobby Thomson's name. But I do see even columnists get it wrong at times. I have never seen Mays as having racial problems...leastways McCovey never did have such problems, being a fan favorite from day 1, or so I have heard. dk...there were lots of stories about Willie Mays not being accepted as one of their's by the SF fans, he was considered a New Yorker...they also said that Mays had a lot of trouble finding a decent place to live |
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Post by Rog on Mar 18, 2015 0:19:17 GMT -5
Randy -- I have known for a long while that there is no P in Bobby Thomson's name. But I do see even columnists get it wrong at times. Rog -- I haven't seen it wrong, but it could easily be so. Bobby Thomson. Robby Thompson. Quite a coincidence. I met Robby's dad at the 1987 All-Star game. Surprisingly, he thought (from a distance) that my dad might be Will Clark's dad, even though my dad was probably about 15 years older. I told him it was my dad and that we were there as guests of Chris Speier. I remember that I told Mr. Thompson that his son reminded me of Chris, and I could tell from his reaction he thought his son was considerably better. Robby did turn out to be the better player, although I do think there were similarities. And Chris wound up with 31 WAR compared to Robby's 34. Chris played 8 seasons longer than Robby, which means his WAR per season was considerably less -- but also pointed to a very long career (19 years). Chris was a three-time All-Star, while Robby was selected twice. Chris was voted the starter once and played in two games. Sadly, Robby didn't play in either of his two All-Star games. Robby was clearly the better hitter, winning a Silver Bat in 1993. Surprisingly their top single-season WAR were very close -- 6.3 for Robby in 1993 and 6.0 for Chris in 1972. Robby also had a 6.1 in 1989. Robby won a Silver Slugger and a Gold Glove. Chris had by far the better defensive WAR, so arguably he was the better fielder. I consider Robby to be the SF Giants' #2 second baseman, and Chris to be #2 at short. Chris started his major league career 16 years earlier than Robby, but the two played together from 1987 to 1989. I meant my comment to Robby's dad as a compliment. Both were solid fielders and solid players both on and off the field (although Don pointed out that Chris got a DUI after his playing days). Back when I met Robby's dad and visited Chris's house several times, of course, I still understood the game, not yet having gotten into metrics. Didn't even know they existed. Randy -- I have never seen Mays as having racial problems. Rog -- Willie had considerable racial difficulties when he first came to San Francisco, including having a brick thrown threw his living room window. As an aside from that house, Willie had a mirror covering one wall of his bedroom. Not for the purposes one would suspect with a mirror in the bedroom, but so he could watch his swing as he practiced it. If you want to read about Willie's racial problems in San Francisco, get one of the several books about him from your library. I now have something like seven or eight of them, and I've read a couple of others. Charles Einstein was nominated for a Pulitzer Prize for one of his two books about Willie. You owe it to yourself to read at least one Willie Mays book. One almost can't consider himself a well-rounded Giants fan without having done so. Willie's god son Barry Bonds was the most exciting hitter I ever saw, but Willie himself was the most exciting all-around. Willie could -- and did -- beat you with any of his five tools. Chronicle beat writer Bob Stevens wrote about a triple Willie hit, "The only guy could have caught that ball hit it." Willie hit four home runs in a game and came within a missed Tito Fuentes tag of throwing for the cycle. (Which would have been throwing out a runner at home, first, second and third in the same game.) You probably aren't old enough to have seen Willie play, or at least not before the twilight of his career (in which he was but a murky shadow of himself), but it's hard to imagine how exciting he was. As far as I know, he is the only player who received top marks in each of the five baseball tools. Several others had four, but I don't know of any others with five. Ken Griffey, Jr. and Mickey Mantle were close, as is Mike Trout right now. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2760/flying-scots-shot-ishs#ixzz3UhzoqXJy |
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