sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Feb 23, 2015 13:19:11 GMT -5
I'm just dumfounded. Of all the rules that could use some tweaking why on earth is mlb always so hung up on pace of play? It's my experience that if the fans like the game they aren't going to get bunged up about it taking a little longer. I mean it's just plain stupid. Ok, I can see them wanting to monitor the between half innings time, but the changes that effect the game directly are just plain ludicrous and don't aid the enjoyment one bit. I'm not going to like the game any more or less if a guy wants to step out of the box between pitches or do a Mike Hargrove even. To me this seems like the NFL implementing a rule that requires every team to go into a no-huddle offense. Stop telling the fans that we should be less patient and just give us good baseball at any pace. Personally I would iron out the strike zone and put in place an accountability system for umpires that miss too many calls and make the swing/no swing rule a lot less ambiguous. These are things that actually can be improved and would improve the game...but no, these guys just want everything sped up. What the hell would THAT improve? Nothing.
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Post by Islandboagie on Feb 23, 2015 14:41:57 GMT -5
I agree 100%. I believe it was Jon Heyman who said that the average football game is longer than the average baseball game. Too many changes recently for my taste.
I'm amazed that they elected Rob Manfred. He's been vocal about his goal to make baseball more betting-friendly. He's a progressive liberal who is more interested in making money than keeping the baseball traditions in place. Bad bad bad choice.
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Post by klaiggeb on Feb 23, 2015 14:44:38 GMT -5
Actually, Randy, I'm a HUGE proponent for speeded up play.
In 1983, the AVERAGE game lasted 2 hrs and 30 minutes.
Last year, the average game time was 3 hrs and 2 minutes.
Un acceptable.
What's next? In 5 years, are we looking at 4 hour games?
Just shoot me now.
# 1, too many damned commercials. THAT adds at least 20 minutes to every game.
# 2, hitters doink around way too much getting into the box and staying in the box. And enough already with that inane, stupid, walk up music!
# 3, pitchers. Give me a break, boys! Get your fanny on the rubber and PITCH! Enough fiddling and farting around out there!
# 4, it's a FACT. Younger audiences are NOT attracted to the game because it's too slow for them. I wish it was different, but we live in a "video arcade" world, where children need to be entertained every minute of the day.
Next time you go to a restaurant, look around at the families with children. What do you see? More often than not, the PARENTS have given the kid a video game to 'entertain' them so they don't get bored and bother them. And it goes down to children 1 to 2 years old!
What happened to TEACHING your children composure, or how to behave in public?
Stop by a school. ANY SCHOOL! The minute the bell rings, 99% of them are filing out of their classroom, ALREADY on their freaking phones reading and posting or tweaking!
Get a frickin' life!
They did a recent study of teenagers and phones. They measured stress levels when they didn't have immediate access to their freaking phones.
And what they discovered, floored them! Stress levels doubled and triple simply by NOT having their phone handy on which they could fart around.
The problem STARTS with parents, but it IS a fact of life.
The LONGER games go, the LESS likely young fans will want to watch, and THAT'S bad for the game.
Games are way too long NOW, and I LOVE, I mean LOVE baseball!
But games averaging 3 hours and 2 minutes? That's gotta change.
boly
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Post by Rog on Feb 23, 2015 14:50:14 GMT -5
Young fans. Boly hit the nail on the head. Back when Boly and I were kids ourselves, the games usually didn't last much over two hours. I could be remembering wrong, but I think the early San Francisco Giants used to start their night games at 8:15. Can you imaging starting that late now?
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Post by Islandboagie on Feb 23, 2015 15:07:40 GMT -5
# 4, it's a FACT. Younger audiences are NOT attracted to the game because it's too slow for them. I wish it was different, but we live in a "video arcade" world, where children need to be entertained every minute of the day.
Next time you go to a restaurant, look around at the families with children. What do you see? More often than not, the PARENTS have given the kid a video game to 'entertain' them so they don't get bored and bother them. And it goes down to children 1 to 2 years old!
What happened to TEACHING your children composure, or how to behave in public?
Stop by a school. ANY SCHOOL! The minute the bell rings, 99% of them are filing out of their classroom, ALREADY on their freaking phones reading and posting or tweaking!
Get a frickin' life!
They did a recent study of teenagers and phones. They measured stress levels when they didn't have immediate access to their freaking phones.
And what they discovered, floored them! Stress levels doubled and triple simply by NOT having their phone handy on which they could fart around.
The problem STARTS with parents, but it IS a fact of life.
The LONGER games go, the LESS likely young fans will want to watch, and THAT'S bad for the game.
Boagie- Those are stupid young fans. The kind of stupid young fans that beat Bryan Stow within an inch of his life. I don't want those "fans" watching baseball, and we should not make baseball more appealing for those thuggish idiots.
We should adhere to the fans who already love the game. And the young kids who appreciate fundementals and tradition.
My nephew is 9 years old, he is a big Giants fan and is learning stats and traditions, and the intricate parts of baseball. He loves it, and it's the first thing he's ever really been interested in. He's the type of kid we should be protecting the sport for, Boly. Not thuggish kids with attention spans of field mice. Those kids can waste their brain cells on watching the slam dunk competition.
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Feb 23, 2015 15:13:46 GMT -5
I've been hearing these same arguments by older fans but to me they don't hold water. Why is it they want the games over so quickly? Do they get tired of watching baseball? I can understand stats geeks wanting the games over with posthaste...they want to get to their beloved numbers.
As far as kids go, why should we be teaching them that faster is better? It's still the same game. And as long as we've been lectured about slower games making the game less popular with kids, I don't see the slightest bit of evidence that is the case. Boagie nailed it...Football games take longer on average and that hasn't hurt the popularity of the NFL among younger fans.
There are better rules to tweak. Stop worrying so much about pace of play...concentrate on getting calls right by incompetent umpires. If you want the games to go faster, just DVR them and skip through the commercials and slow parts.
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
|
Post by sfgdood on Feb 23, 2015 15:41:16 GMT -5
# 4, it's a FACT. Younger audiences are NOT attracted to the game because it's too slow for them. I wish it was different, but we live in a "video arcade" world, where children need to be entertained every minute of the day.
Dood - No offense Boly, but this is pure rubbish. I go to schools and see Giants and A's hats, jerseys and tshirts all over the place, girls included. Look in the crowds on Giants broadcasts...do you see only adults in the crowd as we did in those 50s newsreels? I don't. I see lots of families in every stadium, even at night games. Are overall attendance and tv ratings going down? I haven't heard so. Show me some tangible evidence that popularity is hurt by pace of play.
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Post by klaiggeb on Feb 23, 2015 16:55:31 GMT -5
# 4, it's a FACT. Younger audiences are NOT attracted to the game because it's too slow for them. I wish it was different, but we live in a "video arcade" world, where children need to be entertained every minute of the day.
Dood - No offense Boly, but this is pure rubbish. I go to schools and see Giants and A's hats, jerseys and tshirts all over the place, girls included. Look in the crowds on Giants broadcasts...do you see only adults in the crowd as we did in those 50s newsreels? I don't. I see lots of families in every stadium, even at night games. Are overall attendance and tv ratings going down? I haven't heard so. Show me some tangible evidence that popularity is hurt by pace of play.
****boly says***
No offense taken, Randy, but the thing is...I didn't make up nor create the statement.
It's what all of the research people are saying from the studies they are doing regarding the game.
Frankly, I'm not smart enough to have thought of that on my own.
There's a part of me that agrees with you.
But when every night your average, nothing special game begins to run into and past the 3 hour mark... that's a bit much for even me.
Night after night I watch the hitter or the pitcher screwing around, seemingly stalling and/or reluctant to get into the box, or get on the rubber and pitch.
We're starting to getting to many Human Rain Delays like Mark Hargrove. Not that bad, of course, but we're getting closer and closer.
If you're a hitter, look at the coach, watch the signs, and get your fat can in the batter's box.
Pitchers, take a second to gather yourself between pitches, get on the rubber, get the sign and thrown the darned ball!
You're all supposed to be Major Leaguers who have done their research and pre planning BEFORE the game.
You've likely seen the hitter or pitcher before.
You know the situation, get your butt in gear and do what you're paid to do!
But it seems like a substantial number of these millionaire, pampered babies can't seem do that.
Got to have your "schtick."
Got to have your "routine."
Got to have your idiot "walk up" music.
Got to let EVERYONE in the house know it's "you," because you are, after all... "you."
Nonsense.
Be a professional.
Act like a professional.
boly
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Feb 23, 2015 17:16:14 GMT -5
well clearly it bothers you and bothers the owners...but overall I just don't see evidence that it's hurting the popularity of the game at all. Like I said, I don't see poor attendance or low tv ratings. I see tons of merchandise being sold league-wide. I see more, mega tv contracts being signed. MLB TV is still thriving all year long. That doesn't happen when popularity is down.
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Post by Rog on Feb 23, 2015 22:20:32 GMT -5
El Dooderino -- well clearly it bothers you and bothers the owners...but overall I just don't see evidence that it's hurting the popularity of the game at all. Like I said, I don't see poor attendance or low tv ratings Rog -- I don't see that either. But MLB's job is to anticipate trends before they happen, and research -- not simply opinions or guess work -- says many younger fans and potential fans are put off by the length of games. If we take the time of action in a game (an actual pitch being thrown and the resultant action) and divide it by the time of a game, we get a small fraction. I certainly agree with you it's not hurting the game too badly now, but MLB believes it will when the younger fans have to take over for us here on the board and tens of millions like us. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2726/rules-changes#ixzz3Sd37myHC
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Post by Islandboagie on Feb 24, 2015 15:07:14 GMT -5
Progressive Liberals should not be in charge of of game built on tradition, plain and simple. Baseball has gained in popularity, attendances are at an all time high. This is the golden age of baseball.
Boly and Rog, the games were shorter back when you were kids because they didn't have as many relievers coming into games. I like the strategy played between the 6th inning and end of the game. As a fan I'd prefer longer games, I don't see how a fan would want to see less baseball every night.
And if they shorten the commercial breaks, that will force the broacasts to run less commercials, which would take money out of the Giants' pocket since they own 30% of Comcast Bay Area. As a Giants fan I can't support that either.
Everthing about this idea is bad.
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Post by Rog on Feb 24, 2015 15:16:48 GMT -5
Boagie -- Boly and Rog, the games were shorter back when you were kids because they didn't have as many relievers coming into games. I like the strategy played between the 6th inning and end of the game. Rog -- There are several reasons, Boagie. Back in those days batters didn't step out of the box and adjust their batting gloves after every pitch. Of course, one of the reasons for that is they didn't wear batting gloves. There weren't as many pick off throws. The game is tougher now, and players feel the need to use extra time to concentrate. That is understandable, but it contributes to the longer games. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2726/rules-changes#ixzz3ShB8K3M0
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Feb 24, 2015 15:40:42 GMT -5
El Dooderino -- well clearly it bothers you and bothers the owners...but overall I just don't see evidence that it's hurting the popularity of the game at all. Like I said, I don't see poor attendance or low tv ratings
Rog -- I don't see that either. But MLB's job is to anticipate trends before they happen, and research -- not simply opinions or guess work -- says many younger fans and potential fans are put off by the length of games.
Dood - how long now have they been telling us this? And still attendance and ratings are up. Kids still LOVE the merchandise. I think they need to be questioning the research at this point
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Post by Rog on Feb 25, 2015 14:04:50 GMT -5
Rog -- I don't see that either. But MLB's job is to anticipate trends before they happen, and research -- not simply opinions or guess work -- says many younger fans and potential fans are put off by the length of games. Dood - how long now have they been telling us this? Rog -- About a full day now I believe. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2726/rules-changes#ixzz3SmjzU900
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Feb 25, 2015 15:38:54 GMT -5
no...it has been at least 20 years they've been trying to shorten games for these same reasons...the research is as faulty as the Global Warming crap
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Post by Rog on Feb 25, 2015 15:51:29 GMT -5
El Dooderino -- no...it has been at least 20 years they've been trying to shorten games for these same reasons...the research is as faulty as the Global Warming crap Rog -- I misread your previous post. Your point is well-taken, although I don't think the effort to shorten games has been all that extensive, given that games have increased by, what, close to a half hour during that time? It doesn't really matter much to me. I watch a lot of sports, and I have learned that fast forwarding allows me to watch what I most want to watch in a time that is far less than the time of the game itself. But baseball cares, since it wants to continue to grow after all of us here are long gone. No matter which way it goes, I'll be fine. I simply think that as we age we get better at responding to the prayer: God give me the courage to change what I can, the patience to live with what I can't, and the wisdom to know the difference. Don ought to be REALLY good at that by now! Boly and I too! Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2726/rules-changes#ixzz3Sn9UhvTX
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Feb 25, 2015 15:57:39 GMT -5
Not sure Boly's all that great at the patience part, God love him...then again neither am I in certain cases
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Post by klaiggeb on Feb 26, 2015 9:34:25 GMT -5
Randy has me pegged; When it comes to certain things... baseball, for instance, patience is not a virtue of which I don't have a lot.
boly
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Post by Rog on Feb 26, 2015 10:44:44 GMT -5
Rog -- I don't see that either. But MLB's job is to anticipate trends before they happen, and research -- not simply opinions or guess work -- says many younger fans and potential fans are put off by the length of games. Dood - how long now have they been telling us this? And still attendance and ratings are up. Kids still LOVE the merchandise. I think they need to be questioning the research at this point Rog -- If MLB has been researching this for at least 20 years as you say, it would appear they have been questioning the research at lot. If they are beginning to move after 20 years, the research is likely telling them it's important to move. I do agree with you though that the game has never been healthier. I wish Allen were still around. He was convinced that the game began to fall apart when free agency began. Obviously that hasn't been the case. It's been almost just the opposite. By the way, I again tried to contact Allen, and I realized why I had quit before. He no longer has the same e-mail address. And since he has moved, I no longer have his phone number. I don't seem to have any way of contacting him. Does anyone else here? Just a couple of days ago I got hacked and e-mails flew everywhere, including to Mooco. He contacted me and re-affirmed that he reads the board frequently. I wish he were still posting. He was a voice of reason. But at least he's still watching from afar. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2726/rules-changes#ixzz3SrkWABdH
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Post by Islandboagie on Feb 26, 2015 11:53:49 GMT -5
Rog- Just a couple of days ago I got hacked and e-mails flew everywhere, including to Mooco.
Boagie- So you don't recommend I start a weight loss plan that worked for Oprah?
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Post by rxmeister on Feb 27, 2015 19:26:41 GMT -5
Damn! I just sent thousands of dollars to an African Prince! Thanks for nothing Rog. It's funny you mention that you sent a hacked email to Mooco, because he once told me he left the board because he and his wife were both concerned over Internet security.
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