Vogey and Henry Schullman

[klaiggeb]

This is a quote from Henry S which I think sums up what the Giant players feel like, and why I'm so surprised people resisted coming to SF; i.e. Lester, amoung others:

“I have a wife who loves San Francisco, and I’ve got her chirping in my ear every two seconds to re-sign with the Giants,” Ryan Vogelsong said Friday, a reminder of how intimate most of the players and their families have become with San Francisco over the magical past half-decade.
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For me, that statment says one heck of a lot!

boly[/font][/font][/font]

[rxmeister]

I guess you have to play there first or else you don't experience it. In the case of Lester, he's always been in the AL and I don't know if he ever pitched at AT&T. He pitched on the east coast and he lives in the south, so convincing him to pitch in SF was more of a daunting task. He was traded to the Bay Area, but pitching in the Oakland Mausoleum would only give you a negative impression of the area. A better question would be why the hell did Pablo Sandoval leave after being a part of that atmosphere for all these years?

[sfgdood]

I don't know where in the Bay Area Lester lived during his time with the A's but I don't think he was here long enough to really appreciate it. He probably just looked at the figures and tax codes and went with his Chicago cronies. Pablo might still be a Giant if his family lived on the West Coast

[rxmeister]

If you're traded at the deadline, you certainly treat your time differently than you do if you get traded and know you're going to stay there. A player who gets traded to the Giants knows there's a good chance they might re-sign him after the season, but a big ticket player going to the A's knows he's going somewhere else after the season. He's not going to be looking at houses or schools for the kids.

[klaiggeb]

Something had to be going on with Pablo and managment; something I'm guessing either we'll never know, or won't come out for a long time.

I mean, let's face it; he was BELOVED by the city. Beloved!

boly

[sfgdood]

Pablo never came out and said it but I have to think seeing Pence get paid, then getting lowballed himself hurt him on some level. I don't know if he felt disrespected...maybe undervalued is a better description. But his family being over there was a factor too, I believe.

[Islandboagie]

Still doesn't make sense to me, Randy. 3 rings, the love the fans gave him, the Giants offering him more than he's worth. I think I'll always scratch my head over that one.

[sfgdood]

Again...he watched as Cain and Buster and Pence got theirs and it wasn't until Boston got involved that the Giants opened up their purse strings. By then it was too late because it was not about money. Boston made a better pitch. They told of their own great fans and hitter friendly park...his buddies, Ortiz and Ramirez would be there and his family would be close. The rings won here just helped make the case for new challenges in a different city. And as much as the Giants stepped up in the end, I'm sure it was hard to forget how they had undervalued him, as compared with Pence who they paid right away.

[Rog]

El Dooderino -- Again...he watched as Cain and Buster and Pence got theirs and it wasn't until Boston got involved that the Giants opened up their purse strings.

Rog -- I think the Giants were pretty well up there from the beginning of the off-season. When you say a player is your top priority, you're indicating as much.

As for the low ball offer prior to the season, I have read that the Giants -- who no question made a low ball offer at 3/$40 -- moved up to 5//$75 prior to last season. I don't think that was disrespectful at all, and if I had been Pablo, I might well have taken it.

Pablo didn't have a great season, but he had a good one. And he definitely added on in the postseason. He showed a much-improved glove and also stayed healthy for the first time in four seasons. That got him essentially an added $20 million.

But if Pablo had experienced a poor season and/or been injury-riddled, his contact would have fallen short of five years, and the money would have been well short of $75 million.

Here is something most -- perhaps including Pablo -- don't realize. The Giants didn't make a good enough offer to Pence to entice him before his walk season. They offered him 5/$90 only as the season was ending. The Giants were willing to go higher than that with Pablo.

I am like just about everyone else in that I'm surprised Pablo left the Giants. Is David Ortiz that influential in Pablo's life?

I suppose something turned Pablo against the Giants, but I'm not sure it was a rational factor.

Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2680/vogey-henry-schullman#ixzz3PsTGSdU2

[Rog]

The Giants didn't pay Hunter right away. They waited about as long as they could without his actually becoming a free agent.

People seem to be thinking that Hunter signed a year before he was eligible for free agency, but that wasn't the case. I would imagine the Giants made an offer prior to his walk season to Hunter, just as they did to Pablo, but I don't even know for sure that was the case.

[Islandboagie]

There was probably more speculation into Pablo's dealings because he was homegrown. I don't think the Giants first offer to Pablo was as much of an insult as others tend to make it.

[Rog]

OK. So what do the Giants have for 2015?

The rotation -- Six candidates for five spots, and Yusmeiro Petit for emergencies. Madison Bumgarner put up one of the best postseasons ever. Matt Cain is a fabulous #2 if he is healthy. Jake Peavy -- despite all the criticism here -- is a solid #3. Tim Hudson is a strong #4 -- if healthy. Tim Lincecum has been the best, and he's been one of the worst. A HUGE question mark. Ryan pitched at a solid #4 level last season, and by the way, the Giants are 7-0 in the postseason when he starts.

Nowhere on the team are the question marks higher. This staff could have one decent starter extra, or they could struggle. Their 2015 fate will likely be decided here.

The bullpen -- Talk about a set bullpen. Santiago Casilla and Sergio Romo for the 8th and 9th innings. Jeremy Affeldt and Javier Lopez to take care of the lefties or in Affeldt's case, throw a key inning or two. Jean Machi and his 2.71 career ERA for the 6th or 7th inning. Yusmeiro Petit as the long man, and whichever starter doesn't make the rotation as the wild card. This was the Giants' greatest strength last season, and it could very well be so again.

Catcher -- Posey is as good as there is, and Susac looks like a quality backup who will likely develop into a starting-quality backstop. No catching duo is better.

First base -- Will this be Brandon Belt's breakout season? Brandon has battled health issues, but has been very good when healthy. A fine fielder, would anyone have guessed that he has been a better hitter than Pablo Sandoval the past three seasons? Brandon will need to stay healthy to pick up the slack for the departed Pablo. Posey and Travis Ishikawa provide very good back up.

Second base -- Joe Panik solidified the Giants' biggest weakness last season. A superior fundamental player, will he continue to progress or suffer a sophomore slump? Staying at last season's level would be just fine. Joaquin Arias and either Ehire Adrianza or Matt Duffy as backup.

Shortstop -- Brandon Crawford had easily his finest season. Best known for his glove, he drove in 69 runs to boot -- which he did in the field but overcame with spectacular plays. Arias/Adrianza/Duffy as backups.

Third base -- Casey McGehee has been a star (104 RBI's in 2010), and he was out of the league in 2013. Last season he hit .287 and drove in 76 runs. As long as he can cut back on his league-leading 31 double plays grounded into, the rest would be just fine, even though it won't be Sandoval. Arias/Adrianza/Duffy as backups.

Left field -- Nori Aoki has been a model of consistency with his batting averages of .288, .286 and .285. No power but can get on base, run and play a very acceptable outfield. That is far more balanced than the ponderous yet explosive Mike Morse. Excellent fourth outfielder Gregor Blanco and rushed-into-battle Ishikawa as backups.

Center field -- When healthy, Angel Pagan has been viewed as a spark plug. With Aoki, he may be asked to bat down in the order, although Pagan himself average only 1.30 base per hit last season, well below his career mark of 1.48. Blanco, who himself averaged a surprising 1.44 bases per hit while being known as a fine outfielder and get-on-base guy, backs up.

Right field -- Talk about healthy, Hunter Pence hasn't missed a game as a Giant. He has also been a big RBI man who is an average fielder. Once again, Blanco backs up.

Overall: The Giants put an average team on the field and have a strong bullpen the rotation simply needs to reach in good stead. The rotation now has quantity, but does it have the quality to take the Giants to the postseason once again?

In the Giants' best seasons, Brian Sabean has added a key piece or two during the season. The Giants have decent depth, but that could still be necessary, with a high-quality starter being the most likely need (and also a very expensive commodity to acquire at the trade deadline).

Could be a coin flip, which we know is a big factor in NFL overtimes. If the Giants' season goes overtime, they have shown they have a good shot.

[Islandboagie]

That's a solid evaluation, Rog.

I honestly believe the Giants are better offensively as a whole this season. Mainly because Panik will be there all season and the addition of Aoki will stabilize the top of the order.

I don't see the bullpen getting any worse with the ever-reliable big 4 and the young arms we have waiting in the wings.

So it really all comes down to the rotation, which got a lot more deep by resigning Vogelsong. If worse comes to worse we might have to rely on Blackburn or Crick, which also isn't a terrible scenario either.

Depth is important, and across the board the Giants depth is among the best in baseball entering 2015.

[Rog]

Boagie -- If worse comes to worse we might have to rely on Blackburn or Crick, which also isn't a terrible scenario either.

Rog -- You bring up a good point that if things get really thin with the starting pitching, the Giants have a couple of guys who may be almost ready. I don't think Kyle Crick will be among them though. Kyle has a TON of work to do on control and command. I no longer consider him a no-trade.

Southpaw Ty Blach has joined Blackburn as the closest to ready of the starting pitching prospects. I'm not all that big on Blach, who came on last season, but Blackburn has continued to show well. Clayton pitched just 93 innings last season though, so he must have had an injury problem.

Boagie -- Depth is important, and across the board the Giants depth is among the best in baseball entering 2015.

Rog -- The Giants' depth is much better than it was a year ago. Blanco, Susac and Arias are pretty good backups, and between them they have all eight positions covered.

Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2680/vogey-henry-schullman#ixzz3PzTu6hfY