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Post by rxmeister on Dec 18, 2014 8:06:52 GMT -5
Although I know Randy will say "wake me up when we do more than talk," and I can't say I blame him, the Giants are supposedly talking to the Rays about Ben Zobrist, the Yankees about Martin Prado and the Nationals about Doug Fister. And I thought they couldn't multi task! I would love Fister and Prado, and Zobrist would be a nice second choice if they fail on Prado. Don't forget this can also be a message to free agents like James Shields and Astrubal (I don't want to play third) Cabrera that the Giants have options.
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 18, 2014 10:23:47 GMT -5
IF... and I say IF 2 of those 3 come to fruition, Mark, then I would retract my "Asleep at the Wheel" comments.
I like Pfister and Zobrist, and though I'm not that sold on the guy, I'd take Prado, signing 2 of the 3 would take my off season rating of our moves from "bust," to "decent."
boly
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Post by Rog on Dec 18, 2014 23:38:43 GMT -5
Boly -- I like Pfister and Zobrist, and though I'm not that sold on the guy, I'd take Prado, signing 2 of the 3 would take my off season rating of our moves from "bust," to "decent." Rog -- I think it would depend on what the Giants had to give up. I think they'd all be pretty expensive. Prado is a very nice player. He has as career .291/.340/.429/.769 slash and can play third base, left field and second base. Plus the Giants owe him for getting hurt with the Braves in 2010, forcing the Braves to use Brooks Conrad at second base. Prado hit a so-so .270/.317/.370/.688 with the Diamondbacks last season, but rebounded after being traded to the Yankees to his .316/.336/.541(!)/.877(!). Prado is an extreme contact hitter. All that said, his walk rate fell last season, and his strikeout rate and swinging strike rose. I think I agree with you, Boly, and would stay away. I had kind of liked him as an alternative too. What I'm seeing could be nothing, just normal fluctuation, but I don't think I would chance it unless the price were low. Given that he's making $11 million each of the next two seasons, and the Giants would likely have to give up a fair amount, the price in salary and players definitely won't be low. Zobrist is a very solid pro who can play even more positions than Prado, but he too would be expensive and I believe is signed only through 2015. Reasonable contract though IIRC. Fister would be fabulous, although I think he was a little lucky last season with his phenomenal 2.41 ERA. Steve Berman described him as a sinker baller (57% of the time) who was basically a 9-year-younger version of Tim Hudson. That's pretty darn good. But the Giants would surely have to give up a TON to get him, and he's free agent eligible a year from now. He's projected to make $11.4 million this season, which is a bargain. The Giants could pay both Zobrist and Fister a combined $19 million or so this season -- DARN cheap -- but they would have to give up a lot of players and would risk losing either or both at the end of the 2015 season. Each of them, especially Fister, will both cost a lot more after next season, even if they stayed. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2629/giants-active-trade-talks#ixzz3MJXCI1NZ |
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Post by Rog on Dec 18, 2014 23:41:42 GMT -5
I think it would be tough for the Giants to trade for a high-quality player without giving up Joe Panik or Andrew Susac. I know that's certainly what I would want if I were trading with the Giants.
Perhaps the price will be more reasonable for Zobrist and Fister, since they could wind up being one-year rentals. It's really tough to keep a good team going over a protracted period. The Giants' biggest strength is that they have a very nice core that is fairly young.
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Post by rxmeister on Dec 19, 2014 8:08:29 GMT -5
The signing of Peavy takes Fister off their wish list unfortunately, but I guess Prado or Zobrist will remain. The Rays are no longer competing so perhaps you get Zobrist cheaper than you think. He has one year left on his deal and they're not going to be contenders, so why keep him? As for Prado, even though the Yankees never need to dump salary, unloading Prado's 11 million could go a long way in them getting into the Scherzer sweepstakes, something they're not in right now.
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 19, 2014 11:50:31 GMT -5
Mark, why would signing Peavy mean that they're out of the "Fister race?"
He's still a better option than Vogey
boly
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sfgdood
Long time member 
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Dec 19, 2014 14:04:36 GMT -5
Boly, you seem to just refuse to ACCEPT that Lincecum is in the rotation. Like it or not, that is the reality of it. No other starting pitcher is going to be added, except maybe one off the scrap heap.
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Post by Rog on Dec 19, 2014 14:07:45 GMT -5
Mark -- The Rays are no longer competing so perhaps you get Zobrist cheaper than you think. He has one year left on his deal and they're not going to be contenders, so why keep him? Rog -- Zobrist might be a good pickup. He's been an underrated player for some time now. I see no reason for the Rays to keep him, but I see plenty of reason for teams aside from the Giants to want him. The Giants have enough money left to trade for Ben and still have a LITTLE left over for left field. He can play many positions, so trading for him would allow the Giants the flexibility to sign or trade for EITHER a left fielder or a third baseman to complete their off-season. The gamble with Zobrist would be whether the Giants could re-sign him. Ben will turn 35 soon after the start of the 2016 season, so the Giants might not want to go as far out as other teams might be willing to go. Ben's power has fallen off considerably the past two seasons, so he may be beginning to show his age. Zobrist's ground ball rate went up quite a bit last season, and his line drive rate has dropped each of the past two. He continues to make steady contact and draw walks. But the last two seasons he has changed from a guy with decent power to a guy with modest pop. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2629/giants-active-trade-talks#ixzz3MN5RxDtz |
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Post by Rog on Dec 19, 2014 14:10:43 GMT -5
Boly -- Mark, why would signing Peavy mean that they're out of the "Fister race?" He's still a better option than Vogey Rog -- Barring an unlikely trade, the Giants are likely done with their starting rotation. They could likely muster up the $11-$12 million Fister is expected to make this season, but they would have to give up a lot, risk losing Fister at year end, and have almost no money to address third base and left field. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2629/giants-active-trade-talks?page=1#ixzz3MN9PbKu9 |
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 19, 2014 14:18:24 GMT -5
Randy---Boly, you seem to just refuse to ACCEPT that Lincecum is in the rotation. Like it or not, that is the reality of it. No other starting pitcher is going to be added, except maybe one off the scrap heap.
---boly says---
Believe me, Randy, I KNOW you're right.
But Rog and Boagie have been questioning my plan, so I have responded to them
Lincecum IS in the rotation, of that there is no question.
And I also know you ARE right; The morons running the zoo are NOT going to add another pitcher.
Basically, what you and have been saying is, WE'RE SCREWED, and the season hasn't even started yet.
And THAT is both sad and disgusting.
Giant fans DESERVE better.
boly
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Post by rxmeister on Dec 19, 2014 16:01:18 GMT -5
I don't blame you guys for your pessimism after the Peavy signing, but I was reassured by Evans' comments today. Sabean also said a week ago that Lincecum is in the rotation "at this time." This certainly means it's not etched in stone.
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Dec 19, 2014 16:17:26 GMT -5
I'm not holding my breath expecting the Giants to continue pursuing starting pitching. I heard that interview and Evans did NOT sound all that confident in any of the quality options at any position of need. I came away being more convinced that 3rd or 4th place is a viable possibility in 2015.
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 19, 2014 16:35:03 GMT -5
Mark--Sabean also said a week ago that Lincecum is in the rotation "at this time." This certainly means it's not etched in stone.
---boly says---
When I read that, Mark the FIRST thing that came to mind was that he was considering/working on a deal to move Tim.
I say we could get some very, very decent prospects back, maybe even a young kid waiting to bloom.
boly
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Post by rxmeister on Dec 20, 2014 0:14:35 GMT -5
Again, Boly, please tell me which team would be interested in an ineffective, mechanically screwed up pitcher at 18 million per year.
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 20, 2014 10:05:55 GMT -5
I can't name a team, because I am not privy to inside information.
But I outlined my reasons why earlier.
Here's a brief summary sans the paraphanalia;
1-He recently threw 2 no hitters.
2-High strikeout total/IP
3-Teams will think they can 'fix' him
4-He still has great stuff.
boly
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Post by Rog on Dec 20, 2014 12:53:49 GMT -5
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Post by Rog on Dec 20, 2014 15:12:20 GMT -5
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