Asleep at the Wheel

[klaiggeb]

It's been my experience that if you sit on your hands long enough, they lose all feeling, and 'fall asleep.'

That being the case, Sabean's hands must be not just asleep, but hibernating because they flat out haven't even moved.

Oh.

Wait.

I meant to say his head, because at this point, it appears to be shoved so far up his fanny it's no longer functioning.

Sigh.

Another day, another.... ummmm, nothing.

All we're left with is memories, and though they are darned good ones: Belt's 18th inning HR, Morse' Game tying HR, Ishi's game winner, Panik and Crawford turning that pair, Bumgarner's super human efforts on the mound, they are just that; memories. And nothing more

Life moves forward.

Baseball moves forward.

But not the Giants front office.

They don't seem to grasp that concept. I guess they figure 3 in 5 is good enough, because right NOW, all they are doing is treading water.


I'm with Randy on this one; I've heard all the excuses; I've heard all the rhetoric. Enough is enough!

As my 24 years now deceased father was wont to say "Sh _ _ or get off the pot!"

I guess Brian is comfortable sitting constipated on the can.

Thanks, Brian. Thanks for the memories.

This off season of "memories" I can do without.

boly

[Islandboagie]

This isn't a fair assessment, Boly. The Giants put up the money. Sandoval was offered the contract he wanted, it was his choice to go to Boston. Same with Lester, he preferred being in Chicago.

I'm surprised that after the Matt Williams trade and 3 world championships Giants fans still bad mouth the architect that has proven to have a higher baseball IQ than any of us. Actually, I'm not surprised, after listening to KNBR call-ins it's apparent Giants fans are stupid.

But I am surprised at you, Boly, I think you're one of the exceptions, I expect better from you than these kind of posts.

[Rog]

I understand Boly's frustration. And Randy's. And just about everyone else here.

Heck, I'm not even sure I want the Giants to sign James Shields, and yet I get frustrated that we don't at least find the way it turns out.

I do think there are still options out there. There are still a few international options out there, and the Giants still have three of their own players who have made contributions in the past that they could re-sign.

Are they going to improve via free agency? That's a very tough order, given that they have only half as much to spend as it would have taken to get their players to return. If someone takes a $2 bill from us, gives us a $1 bill back and asks us to buy as much with the $1 bill as we could have with the $2 bill, I'd say we have about as much chance as finding a $3 bill.

Let's suppose the Giants had re-signed Pablo and also signed Jon Lester. That would have taken about $45 million to accomplish, and they don't have nearly that much to spend, but let's suppose they had done so. I think we'd be pretty delighted.

But would they have improved their club? Essentially that would mean they had made a trade of Jake Peavy, Sergio Romo, Mike Morse and Ryan Vogelsong for Jon Lester. Would you make that trade?

Depends on what you need. If you have another starting pitcher along with Lester to replace Peavy and Vogelsong, have a reliever to replace Romo, and have a left fielder or first baseman to replace Morse, I think you would do so. The only question might be spending $155 million on one player (Lester) and being committed to him for six years.

Is the improvement of Lester over Peavy enough to offset the loss of Romo, Vogelsong and Morse? One could likely argue either way. But I think most would make the move.

The Giants likely have enough in the bullpen to come close to offsetting the loss of Romo, as important as he has been to the team the past five or six seasons. They have Matt Cain returning from injury, which should more than offset the loss of Vogelsong. They don't have a lot to replace Morse, but they have won the World Series with Gregor in the lineup on an everyday basis.

So the Giants would be in pretty good position to make that trade. The only strong concern would be replacing Morse. I don't think it would be as much of a no-brainer as it appears, but I do think even with the heavy financial commitment, it would be worth it.

But the Giants would have had to spend $45 million per season to do it. They would have needed to lock up $95 million over five years and $155 million over six years. Add that in with the mega millions owed to Matt Cain, Buster Posey and Madison Bumgarner long-term, and suddenly the Giants would have over $130 million tied up this season from that trio, the two new guys, Tim Lincecum, Tim Hudson and Marco Scutaro. That's more than most teams' entire payroll.

Throw in Affeldt, Casilla, Lopez and Belt, and you're over $150 million for a dozen players.

I wish we could come up with a way the Giants could have (or even better, still could) replace $55 million or so of players with the $30 million or so in their budget.

If anyone can do it, I've got a $2 bill to give you.

I guess my point is that I understand the frustration, but what do we expect? The reasonable answer is that we couldn't realistically expect the Giants to replace their five free agents with what they have available. Which leaves the question of how close they could have come, and how close they can still come.

And until we know the answer to that question, aren't we limited mostly to jibber jabber?

"How can we talk about this and that when this and that hasn't happened yet?" Yogi might also tell us that even though cash is as good as money, if we take $30 million in $2 bills, it's still not as much as $55 million.

Oh, and he might add that it ain't over till it's over. Even though we think that it gets late early in the off-season. He might think our cool ideas aren't so hot either.

[sfgdood]

Your loyalty is admirable, Boagie, and not without some merit. However, sometimes winning begets complacency and overconfidence. I think the Giants front office is guilty this offseason of overestimating the ease at which they might lure some of their targets. They underestimated how much Panda might be lured by outside clubs. Yes you can say they offered the right monetary packages but there's more to luring FAs than just putting the money on the table. I feel like the Giants didn't feel the necessary urgency to do everything it would have taken to get deals done. Thus they are now down to about Plan Q or so. Not good.

[Rog]

I'm not sure it is fair to both criticize the Giants for not spending enough money and for losing free agents when they are willing to spend the money.

We might want to remember that much to our dismay, Brian didn't trade for an outfielder or a second baseman at the deadline. And the deal he made for Jake Peavy was viewed as less than we really wanted him to do to replace Matt Cain.

How about this, Randy. Why don't you tell us what you would have done with the $30 million the Giants have to spend, and then we'll see how that might have worked out compared to how things actually work out. If you can come up with a better idea than what the Giants actually wind up doing, I'll certainly be the first one to give you the credit.

Otherwise, what is the point in complaining? Complaining is the easy part. Solving the problem is the challenge.

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[sfgdood]

How about this, Randy. Why don't you tell us what you would have done with the $30 million the Giants have to spend, and then we'll see how that might have worked out compared to how things actually work out. If you can come up with a better idea than what the Giants actually wind up doing, I'll certainly be the first one to give you the credit.

Dood - look man, I don't know how many times I have answered this but you don't seem to be paying close enough attention so I'll try one more time. So make sure you don't miss it because I refuse to make any further effort AFTER this. First, I'm not buying that $30 mil is all they have available to spend. Maybe it's all they WANT to spend. Whatever the case, I have said all along that the Giants need to not cheap out and just TRY to hang on until the deadline when they can pick something off the scrap heap they hope will pan out or maybe trade more prospects at the deadline. I always HATED that strategy, especially now that our farm system is weak as it is. I would have gone all out and paid both Pablo and a top pitcher--Lester seemed to be the top of their wish list but others like Scherzer of Shields I guess would do. The rest of the needs I wouldn't mind going cheap on as long as those two key pieces were in place with quality. I prefer getting studs for half the needs than going mediocre (at best) across the board, which appears to be the Giants strategy.

[Rog]

How about this, Randy. Why don't you tell us what you would have done with the $30 million the Giants have to spend, and then we'll see how that might have worked out compared to how things actually work out. If you can come up with a better idea than what the Giants actually wind up doing, I'll certainly be the first one to give you the credit.

Dood - look man, I don't know how many times I have answered this but you don't seem to be paying close enough attention so I'll try one more time. So make sure you don't miss it because I refuse to make any further effort AFTER this. First, I'm not buying that $30 mil is all they have available to spend. Maybe it's all they WANT to spend

Rog -- You're begging the question. If the Giants were to spend a lot more, any of us fools could come up with a nice solution. You're not buying that about $30 million is all they have to spend, but that really doesn't matter. They have said that is what they're spending, so humor me.

Let's suppose the $30 million figure IS right. How would you have replaced Sandoval, Peavy, Romo, Morse and Vogelsong with the money?

You're avoiding the question. Or how about this? How would you have approached this with $30 million, with $40 million and with $50 million? Throw in $60 million if you'd like.

By the way, the Dodgers were one of the 29 teams the Giants won the World Series over. No question we would like to be able to have a payroll as big as theirs. But I don't believe they will be spending as much this off season as the Giants. With the trade of Matt Kemp and the trade of one more outfielder likely, and by allowing Hanley Ramirez to walk, it appears they are CUTTING payroll, not adding to it.

Anyway, Randy, let's assume that you may be right about the payroll and that I may be right. What would you have done with each amount of money mentioned above. Clearly the strategy could be different in any case.

Regarding Pablo and Lester, it strongly appears the Giants would have paid quite a bit more to retain those guys than they actually accepted. That's something we should count in our thinking as well.

One thing about these free agents, as good as some of them are. There's a fair amount of risk with each of them. Types of risk include age, length of contract, amount paid, health and natural performance variance.

But teams pay a LOT for free agents, since they don't have to weaken their team to acquire them. I think teams "overpay" most of the free agents. The key is to "overpay" by less than most.

If the Giants sign Shields or had signed Lester, they would potentially have one of the top 3 starting pitchers of any team in baseball. One thing that is rough is that both the Dodgers (Kershaw, Greinke and Ryu) and the Nationals (Strasburg, Fister and Gonzalez) already do. In fact, the Nationals have FIVE starters whose ERA's ranged from 2.41 to 3.57.

But the fact is that it was the Giants, with just one starter with a full season ERA under 3.57, who won the World Series. It was the Giants with a center fielder and a left fielder who couldn't start for many if any teams, who won the World Series.

Since we don't really know how the Giants won three World Series in five years, why are we so worried? We may not even know what to worry about. It's almost certain that the Giants will enter the 2015 season with no more question marks then they entered the 2014 season with.

And wouldn't we settle for the same result?

Share with us your plans, Randy. $30 million, $40 million, $50 million and even $60 million if you wish. I'm going to assume that if the Giants sign Moncado, he wouldn't play in the majors this season, and the money would come from a different budget.

By the way, that's what I'm HOPING. That if the Giants can come up with an extremely good long-term prospect, they would expand the budget to accommodate that player.

Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2626/asleep-wheel#ixzz3MDl9fh00

[Rog]

Randy -- I prefer getting studs for half the needs than going mediocre (at best) across the board, which appears to be the Giants strategy.

Rog -- Whether I agree with you or not, how can you believe going mediocre across the board is the Giants' strategy? They have strongly pursued Sandoval and Lester. Now they're strongly pursuing Shields. That's three of the top 5 free agents in the pool, according to Jon Heyman.

Please explain yourself here, Randy. What you're saying appears to strongly go against the facts as we know them.

Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2626/asleep-wheel?page=1#ixzz3MDt76bH0

[Rog]

Randy -- I prefer getting studs for half the needs than going mediocre (at best) across the board, which appears to be the Giants strategy.

Rog -- Whether I agree with you or not, how can you believe going mediocre across the board is the Giants' strategy? They have strongly pursued Sandoval and Lester. Now they're strongly pursuing Shields. That's three of the top 5 free agents in the pool, according to Jon Heyman.

Please explain yourself here, Randy. What you're saying appears to strongly go against the facts as we know them.

Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2626/asleep-wheel?page=1#ixzz3MDt76bH0

[sfgdood]

rog...I have answered your question, several times. If you are not satisfied, oh well. Humor yourself.

[klaiggeb]

Boagie--But I am surprised at you, Boly, I think you're one of the exceptions, I expect better from you than these kind of posts.

---boly says---

I'm confused, boagie. You said my post was a fair evaluation, but you then say you're surprised at me, and expect better.

Expect better, where? Please, explain, because I do think Sabean hasn't yet, but is on the verge, of blowing the off season and putting us in a very, very bad position even before the season begins.


boly

[Rog]

Rog -- Whether I agree with you or not, how can you believe going mediocre across the board is the Giants' strategy? They have strongly pursued Sandoval and Lester. Now they're strongly pursuing Shields. That's three of the top 5 free agents in the pool, according to Jon Heyman.

Please explain yourself here, Randy. What you're saying appears to strongly go against the facts as we know them.

Randy -- I have answered your question, several times. If you are not satisfied, oh well. Humor yourself.

Rog -- EVERYTHING we've read indicates that while the Giants have yet to be successful, they have gone hard after Pablo and Lester -- whom they appear to have lost due to other reasons aside from money -- and now Shields.

If you can't put your position into one sentence as I did, perhaps your point of view isn't accurate. While you're at it, why not put the backup for your opinion that the Giants aren't serious players in the international market -- despite being closely in the hunt at least twice -- into a sentence.

No question they haven't gotten the RESULTS, but there is strong evidence showing they have put in a serious effort. Please don't use the lame excuse that when you see results, you'll believe it.

The question isn't results; it's effort. With regards to results, thus far you are certainly right.





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Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2626/asleep-wheel#ixzz3MGVl9T00

[Islandboagie]

---boly says---

I'm confused, boagie. You said my post was a fair evaluation, but you then say you're surprised at me, and expect better.

Expect better, where? Please, explain, because I do think Sabean hasn't yet, but is on the verge, of blowing the off season and putting us in a very, very bad position even before the season begins.


Boagie- Maybe you misread, I said your assessment was NOT fair. And I don't think it's fair because they have been willing to put up the money for the biggest names. Sabean can't force players to sign or resign with us.

[klaiggeb]

Boagie- Maybe you misread, I said your assessment was NOT fair. And I don't think it's fair because they have been willing to put up the money for the biggest names. Sabean can't force players to sign or resign with us.

---boly says---

Ahhh! You're right! I did misread it!

My apologies.

Reminds me of the line from Simon and Garfunkel's "The Boxer:" "...Man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest."


Now I get the Matt Williams comment.

But please understand, I did NOT want Pablo back at the money he was asking, and I don't fault Sabean for not signing him.


I DO fault Sabean for not having made ANY positive moves (other than Romo the other day) at the time I made the post.

I'm saddened you think my assessment was unfair, because I disagree.

There have been moves he COULD have made, but wouldn't.


They know how many salaries come off the books after this year, and they know how much money they have THIS year.

This is an organization that looks forward, and what I believe they should have done is just that; look forward with salaries.

Thus I WOULD have made an offer to Lester that trumped the Cubs because he's THAT good, and he would have improved our staff THAT much.

Every team in our division has made major moves and have vastly improved themselves.

But, as Randy continues to point out other than Shields, ALL THAT IS LEFT is bargain basement, bottom of the barrel type of guys.

That kind of thinking will land this club in 2nd or 3rd place, looking up at other teams.

Thus my contention, his head has been up, and is still up, his fanny!

boly

[sfgdood]

But please understand, I did NOT want Pablo back at the money he was asking, and I don't fault Sabean for not signing him.

Dood - what I do fault Sabean for is this...he had a chance to sign Pablo with no outside competition and he blew it. He gambled and we all lost. Now he's scraping the bottom of the barrel to fill holes at 3rd base and in the middle of the order.

[Islandboagie]

I'm saddened you think my assessment was unfair, because I disagree.

There have been moves he COULD have made, but wouldn't.


Boagie- I think he held off on making moves because he had to wait for Pablo to make his decision, which put us behind the clock. I don't blame Sabean for that, I blame Pablo. Pablo got his start here, won 3 rings and became a fan favorite, he should have been more vocal in his intentions if he wanted a "new challenge." I still like Pablo and what he did for us, but he handled that situation poorly. Some say he was hurt by the Giants offer during the spring, but at the time Pablo was considered an injury prone player with weight issues. Pablo could have countered and continued the talks, but he shut the door. In baseball lingo, that means watch me put up good numbers this season then we'll talk money. He didn't put up good numbers, he put up decent numbers, yet the Giants offered him a contract as if he put up big numbers. I think the Giants were very fair in the way they handled it, in the end they were willing to overpay for their guy, but he still walked. I'm dissapointed in how it turned out, but make no mistake, it turned out that way because of Pablo, not Sabean.

But we need to move on, and that's what Sabean did by turning his focus to Lester. I was never really excited about Lester. I would have turned to Melky at that point. But both Melky and Lester got more than I'd be willing the Giants to spend on them.

So, while we can say we should have gone a different route, I can't say it would have turned out much differently up to this point, even if we had gone after other free agents.

That's why I'm wondering why there's so many disparaging comments made about Sabean. It seems like all the players we've had interest in have been paid more than we'd be willing to add to the payroll.

Second guessing the focus is one thing, bashing Sabean is another, and unfair in my opinion, especially when you consider his track record.

[sfgdood]

Boagie- I think he held off on making moves because he had to wait for Pablo to make his decision, which put us behind the clock. I don't blame Sabean for that, I blame Pablo. Pablo got his start here, won 3 rings and became a fan favorite, he should have been more vocal in his intentions if he wanted a "new challenge."

Dood - it's not incumbent upon the FA to lay all his cards out in public. In fact most would consider this poor negotiating technique. I haven't heard from any of the Giants team that Pablo or his reps had been less than forthcoming at any time. If you want to blame somebody for Pablo being allowed to see where the grass might be greener, blame Sabean.



I still like Pablo and what he did for us, but he handled that situation poorly.

Dood - I'll agree that he is guilty of being caught up in the moment when he announced that he wanted to be a Giant for life. He should have known that some fans would take that as being sworn testimony under threat of perjury rather than what it was...a wave of euphoria in the aftermath of another title run. Of course had the Giants extended him beforehand he wouldn't have had to worry about that. And the Giants wouldn't be in the lame position they put themselves in right now.



Some say he was hurt by the Giants offer during the spring, but at the time Pablo was considered an injury prone player with weight issues. Pablo could have countered and continued the talks, but he shut the door. In baseball lingo, that means watch me put up good numbers this season then we'll talk money. He didn't put up good numbers, he put up decent numbers, yet the Giants offered him a contract as if he put up big numbers.

Dood - I don't think any clear-headed person would have considered Pablo "injury prone." Most of his down time was due to Hamate fractures which not only were fluke occurrences, but also not able to happen again since both bones have been removed. As to whether Pablo was hurt, that is a debatable point. I think it had more to do with the Sox making him feel more wanted. It sounded to me like had the Giants made Pablo feel like someone they truly wanted as opposed to someone they only wanted if he slimmed down, then it could have easily been worked out last spring. I don't think the Sox totally ignored the weight issue but I doubt that they made it a deal-breaking situation. That and the other factors--being close to his daughter in FL, the "new challenge" and having the DH fallback option for later in his career--made it such that the Giants needed to be more pro-active and less complacent in their dealings with the panda.



I think the Giants were very fair in the way they handled it, in the end they were willing to overpay for their guy, but he still walked.

Dood - yes indeed fair, but not as a team that was urgent enough to do what it takes.




I'm dissapointed in how it turned out, but make no mistake, it turned out that way because of Pablo, not Sabean.

Dood - it turned out the way it did because both sides were open to this possibility. The Giants had the opportunity to extend him early but were unwilling to make it happen. They opened the door to Pablo noticing other teams wanted him badly, and the Giants by comparison didn't make it clear that they wanted him back just as badly. I think if they had done so, Pablo would have re-signed.




That's why I'm wondering why there's so many disparaging comments made about Sabean. It seems like all the players we've had interest in have been paid more than we'd be willing to add to the payroll.

Second guessing the focus is one thing, bashing Sabean is another, and unfair in my opinion, especially when you consider his track record.

Dood - I'm bashing Sabean for not being willing and/or able to close deals. And I'm definitely considering ALL of his track record, which in the midst of this recent success also includes the epic failures of 2011 and 2013.

[rxmeister]

I have two words for anyone that thinks the Giants mishandled the Pablo Sandoval negotiations. Sergio Romo. Even if you think that the offers early for Pablo were low, at least there were offers! They made offer after offer, kissed his ass unabashedly at the parade, and then aggressively tried to re-sign him during the FA period. If they lost him because he felt mistreated, that was a massive misinterpretation on his part. Sergio Romo, on the other hand, was never offered a new deal during the season, was dumped as closer, never mentioned at the parade and it was made clear to him that they would get back to him later. Did he sulk? Did he bitch and moan? No. He waited his turn, talked to other teams because it's a business and then the Giants got back to him as promised, and he's once again a San Francisco Giant. And by the way, he now makes more money than the closer does! If anyone had the right to feel mistreated, it was Romo. I gained a lot of respect for the way he handled the situation, and even though bullpen is not a high priority for this team, I'm really glad he's back.

[klaiggeb]

Boagie--That's why I'm wondering why there's so many disparaging comments made about Sabean. It seems like all the players we've had interest in have been paid more than we'd be willing to add to the payroll.

Second guessing the focus is one thing, bashing Sabean is another, and unfair in my opinion, especially when you consider his track record.

---boly says---

Boagie, Sabean's track record is, IMHO, brilliant! Arguably better than ANY GM in the game these last 5 or 6 years.

So many of the moves he made, getting Pagan, Huff, Scutaro, Rameriz, Lopez, Affeldt, Pat the Bat, Morse, Cody Ross, Renteria... and there are more I just can't remember, can't be called anything but brilliant!

Too many good things happened for it all to be just 'luck.'


But that doesn't make every move he makes, or every decision he makes, or fails to make, a good one.

When he's deserved praise he's gotten it big time, from me and others.

But at this point in time... at this point in time... IMHO, he deserves the bashing he's getting.


I've given my rationale on the money we have and will have after next season, and the how and why and when I would have used it.

A difference of opinion, certainly.

But it is because of that difference of opinion that I contend he dropped the ball.



I contend that he fed the fans a shovel full of rhetoric, because deep down, he never really figured he could land Lester or any of the other guys because he KNEW going in management wouldn't spring for the dough.

I believe what he told us from the beginning was the old "smoke and mirrors" game.

Thus, I feel deceived, and, to a point, betrayed, because just like Pablo did at the parade, he (IMHO) led the fans on, (or lied, if you prefer) about what he was going to do when he KNEW he couldn't do what he professed to be trying to do.

Just my opinion.

boly

[Islandboagie]

Well, he didn't lead the fans on, they were willing to put up the money, unfortunately Pablo and Lester weren't willing to take it.

As for criticizing Sabean, that's fine, everyone is due some criticism sometimes. But criticizing him before he makes moves is like criticizing Buster Posey for striking out before the first pitch is delivered.

With the signing of Peavy now there is some disappointment in Sabean on my end. But I don't think its reasonable to give a final grade on the Giants off season moves yet. Sabean might still have a trick up his sleeve.

[Rog]

Boly -- But, as Randy continues to point out other than Shields, ALL THAT IS LEFT is bargain basement, bottom of the barrel type of guys.

Rog -- Sergio Romo at 2/$15 and Jake Peavy at 2/$24 are bargain basement?

Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2626/asleep-wheel#ixzz3MNLRf9BR

[Rog]

Boagie -- Sabean might still have a trick up his sleeve.

Rog -- A KNBR interview with Bobby Evans provided more hope than anything I had expected (hoped for, but not expected).

First, when asked if the signing of Peavy took the Giants out of the Shields sweepstakes, Evans replied, "No."

Second, he indicated that the 19-year-old Cuban Moncaco is a "special talent," and if IMO if the Giants can sign Moncado, their off-season would be considered highly successful.

Third, he said the Giants "heavily scouted" the Korean infielder Jung-Ho Kang, although it didn't sound as if the Giants were likely to make the highest post offer for him. The post offers end today.

At the very least, the Giants realize the obvious -- that they can't afford to be done. At its best, the indication is that if the proper situation comes about, they would blow out their budget. It's still possible that the Giants will sign either Shields or Moncado. They don't appear to have given up on either.

Coming back to what the Giants HAVE done, they have kept their rotation and bullpen from declining. With the return of Matt Cain, the rotation should be improved. With a few youngsters likely making strong bids for the bullpen, the bullpen should also be improved.

Clearly the Giants have suffered at third base and in left field. They still have at least $10 million available for the 2015 season to fill those needs via free agents and/or trades. Anyone who is disappointed with what they have done thus far shouldn't be. When we see what else they do, we might be.

But right now, they should go into next season with improved starting pitching and an improved bullpen. Suddenly pitching isn't important?

Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2626/asleep-wheel?page=1#ixzz3MNLwRpAN

[Rog]

Boagie -- Sabean might still have a trick up his sleeve.

Rog -- A KNBR interview with Bobby Evans provided more hope than anything I had expected (hoped for, but not expected).

First, when asked if the signing of Peavy took the Giants out of the Shields sweepstakes, Evans replied, "No."

Second, he indicated that the 19-year-old Cuban Moncaco is a "special talent," and if IMO if the Giants can sign Moncado, their off-season would be considered highly successful.

Third, he said the Giants "heavily scouted" the Korean infielder Jung-Ho Kang, although it didn't sound as if the Giants were likely to make the highest post offer for him. The post offers end today.

At the very least, the Giants realize the obvious -- that they can't afford to be done. At its best, the indication is that if the proper situation comes about, they would blow out their budget. It's still possible that the Giants will sign either Shields or Moncado. They don't appear to have given up on either.

Coming back to what the Giants HAVE done, they have kept their rotation and bullpen from declining. With the return of Matt Cain, the rotation should be improved. With a few youngsters likely making strong bids for the bullpen, the bullpen should also be improved.

Clearly the Giants have suffered at third base and in left field. They still have at least $10 million available for the 2015 season to fill those needs via free agents and/or trades. Anyone who is disappointed with what they have done thus far shouldn't be. When we see what else they do, we might be.

But right now, they should go into next season with improved starting pitching and an improved bullpen. Suddenly pitching isn't important?

Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2626/asleep-wheel?page=1#ixzz3MNLwRpAN

[sfgdood]

Romo arguably does not improve the team all that much with all the bullpen arms available in the farm system. Peavey, by most accounts, was not even close to being near the top of the FA starting pitchers list, so while bargain basement might be a stretch, there's no question the Giants are going cheap here. Shields, Scherzer, Lester were all available but like Charlie Brown looking into his Halloween bag and finding nothing but rocks, Giants fans are looking at this offseason and feeling short-changed and by a lot.

[Rog]

The Giants haven't ruled out Asdrubal Cabrera, although they have previously stated they were more likely to fill the third base position via trade.

[sfgdood]

Rog -- A KNBR interview with Bobby Evans provided more hope than anything I had expected (hoped for, but not expected).

First, when asked if the signing of Peavy took the Giants out of the Shields sweepstakes, Evans replied, "No."

Second, he indicated that the 19-year-old Cuban Moncaco is a "special talent," and if IMO if the Giants can sign Moncado, their off-season would be considered highly successful.

Third, he said the Giants "heavily scouted" the Korean infielder Jung-Ho Kang, although it didn't sound as if the Giants were likely to make the highest post offer for him. The post offers end today.

Dood - Wow you listened to that interview and came out ENCOURAGED?? Evans to me sounded like a guy who has little or no big expectations to sign a big name and had little expectation for 2015 being successful. He even conceded now that the possibility exists that the 3rd base opening could be filled in house--meaning Duffy or Chris Dominguez. OUCH! He spoke over and over about casting a "wide net" and that lots of "options" are available...but he didn't say that any of these options are particularly appealing. Also, as we have seen, it's easy even for big fish to slip past those "wide nets."

[donk33]

It should be noted that most of the trades Sabean has made in the near term has been made in July. He did trade for Melky Cabrera and Pagan in Nov. and Dec. He also traded away Gillaspie in Feb...Peavy, Scutaro, Pence and Lopez came in July....Kontos was just after the season started in April....the bulk of the roster came in the draft and free agents (4)

[Islandboagie]

The Giants haven't ruled out Asdrubal Cabrera, although they have previously stated they were more likely to fill the third base position via trade.

Boagie: Asdrubal Cabrera sucks. I'd rather see Duffy get the starting job. No move is better than a bad move.

[sfgdood]

Does Cabrera suck more than McGehee?

[rxmeister]

I don't think Cabrera sucks at all, I think he's a good player. Would have preferred him to McGehee, but maybe the much cheaper McGehee will give them a chance to do something more.