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Post by rxmeister on Dec 16, 2014 8:19:48 GMT -5
Well, Brian Sabean is certainly not sentimental this offseason! Morse was one of my favorite Giants this past year for his enthusiasm as much as his play. Funny he goes to the Marlins, as he leaves a sold out every night stadium to play in an empty tomb. I wish him luck though and i know they've been talking to Peavy too.
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Post by Rog on Dec 16, 2014 10:53:17 GMT -5
Morse and Blanco were nice complements to each other. Morse has reasonable pop, but is one of the worst defensive outfielders in the game. Blanco's strengths are on the defensive side of the ball and as a base runner. I liked Mike's chemistry with the Giants.
Here is something I found intriguing. Projected to sign with an AMERICAN League team where his defensive deficiencies could be minimized, Mike instead signed in the National League. My guess is that the Giants are feeling solid about James Shields, or I think they might have shifted to something like a Peavy/Morse/trade strategy. There are other outfielders such as Aoki the Giants could still go to, but I doubt they gave up the power and chemistry of Morse lightly. Especially since in Blanco they have such a complementary platoon partner.
I can't believe the Giants and Shields will drag on beyond this week. As Randy correctly points out, the other options are drying up -- quickly. On the other hand, the very thin third base pool has pretty much dried up, but there are still pitchers and outfielders out there to be had.
Hopefully it won't be the Giants who are being had.
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Post by rxmeister on Dec 16, 2014 11:15:47 GMT -5
Just two yrs 8 million for Morse, although there are incentives in the contract based on playing time. I agree with the Shields thought, Rog, nothing else remotely makes sense.
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Post by Rog on Dec 16, 2014 16:10:51 GMT -5
Mark -- Just two yrs 8 million for Morse, although there are incentives in the contract based on playing time. I agree with the Shields thought, Rog, nothing else remotely makes sense. Rog -- That's less than was expected for Morse, although the use of playing time incentives is a very good idea. As for nothing making sense beyond Shields, I'm not sure anything makes sense anymore. If entering the 2013 season someone had told us Marco Scutaro effectively wouldn't play all season and Matt Cain would be ineffective and then injured, that Angel Pagan and Brandon Belt would miss much of the playoffs and all of the postseason, that Michael Morse wouldn't play an inning in the field in the postseason, that a reliever who pitched important innings would give up no fewer than six postseason home runs, and that Madison Bumgarner would be the only effective starter in the postseason, that Gregor Blanco would play center field and Travis Ishikawa and Juan Perez would play left, but that the Giants would win the World Series -- would we have believed him? Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2624/michael-morse-marlins#ixzz3M659Naks |
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sfgdood
Long time member 
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Dec 16, 2014 17:13:05 GMT -5
"Not sentimental" is one way to put it. Stupid might be another. I mean if you're not going to sign other people's free agents, you might as well try to re-sign the ones that won a title for you
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Post by Islandboagie on Dec 16, 2014 18:17:48 GMT -5
If entering the 2013 season someone had told us Marco Scutaro effectively wouldn't play all season and Matt Cain would be ineffective and then injured, that Angel Pagan and Brandon Belt would miss much of the playoffs and all of the postseason, that Michael Morse wouldn't play an inning in the field in the postseason, that a reliever who pitched important innings would give up no fewer than six postseason home runs, and that Madison Bumgarner would be the only effective starter in the postseason, that Gregor Blanco would play center field and Travis Ishikawa and Juan Perez would play left, but that the Giants would win the World Series -- would we have believed him?
Boagie- I still don't believe it now. Especially considering the fact that we didn't win the World Series in 2013.
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Dec 16, 2014 18:58:19 GMT -5
lol good catch Boag...that one slipped right by me
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Post by rxmeister on Dec 16, 2014 19:32:13 GMT -5
Morse's salary keeps going up! First they said 2/8 then 2/12 and now they're saying it's officially 2/16. Of course this makes more sense and it would explain why the Giants weren't interested.,
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Post by Rog on Dec 16, 2014 23:44:12 GMT -5
I assumed when you posted 2/$8 that is was $8 for each season. That's still below what he was expected to sign for, so I suspect the incentives are decent.
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Post by rxmeister on Dec 17, 2014 7:57:03 GMT -5
He didn't want to be a DH so I think he might have accepted less money to play for an NL team. He also left a very nice farewell message to the fans on his Twitter feed. Class act and I'll miss him. The Giants will miss him in the locker room even more than on the field.
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Post by rxmeister on Dec 17, 2014 7:59:23 GMT -5
His message: "It was incredible playing for fans whose love helped me elevate my game. You guys will forever be in my heart. @sfgiants"
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Post by Rog on Dec 17, 2014 13:25:06 GMT -5
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Dec 18, 2014 13:40:37 GMT -5
The Giants basically tipped their hand that they would not be re-signing Michael when they played Ishikawa and Perez ahead of him in postseason. Now we lost our top two power hitters in Pablo and Morse...and they will probably be replaced by fast, punchless glove men.
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Post by Rog on Dec 19, 2014 0:10:41 GMT -5
Mark -- Morse's salary keeps going up! First they said 2/8 then 2/12 and now they're saying it's officially 2/16. Of course this makes more sense and it would explain why the Giants weren't interested. Rog -- I don't think Morse got overpaid at all, but his inconsistency and particular his health worries are bothersome, especially for a team such as the Giants who also have a fragile center fielder. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2624/michael-morse-marlins#ixzz3MJk5Rj5u |
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Post by Rog on Dec 19, 2014 0:24:19 GMT -5
Randy -- The Giants basically tipped their hand that they would not be re-signing Michael when they played Ishikawa and Perez ahead of him in postseason. Rog -- Nice catch if it is true. Perhaps they were truly worrying that Michael was rusty, or perhaps as you say, it was a clue. Randy -- Now we lost our top two power hitters in Pablo and Morse...and they will probably be replaced by fast, punchless glove men. Rog -- One could make an argument that Brandon Belt and especially Buster Posey were as good as power hitters as Pablo and Morse. Buster led the team with 22 homers, 6 more than either Morse or Sandoval, and Belt hit 12 homers in just 214 at bats. Together, Posey and Belt combined to hit two more home runs than Pablo and Morse in 265 fewer at bats. Buster and Belt combined to homer every 22 at bats, while it took Mike and Pablo 34 at bats per homer. So the Giants probably didn't lose their top two power hitters, although they certainly lost two of their top four. Well, except for Madison Bumgarner! Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2624/michael-morse-marlins?page=1#ixzz3MJkcph3s |
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Post by Rog on Dec 19, 2014 0:35:33 GMT -5
Morse's and Pablo's being replaced by fast, punchless players wouldn't be all that bad if the two got on base a lot, were top notch base runners and were very good fielders.
I really liked both players, and both made nice contributions (especially Pablo, with his glove as well as his bat). But Pablo was at best the third-best player on the Giants, and Morse ranked somewhere below that.
Those guys are going to be tough to replace. Same, perhaps, with Peavy and Vogelsong. But of the five Giants free agents, only Sandoval and Romo made big postseason contributions, and Sergio will be back. As for Sandoval, he's had two EXCELLENT postseason in 2012 and 2014 after a poor one in 2010. But in the regular season the past three seasons, he has OPS of just .789, .758 and .739. Not bad, but it doesn't scream $95 million to me.
I do like Pablo's glove a lot, but given his propensity for putting on weight and the stress his weight may already have put on his knees, there is no guarantee his fine glove work will continue. Aren't the Red Sox kind of looking at him as a replacement for Ortiz at DH once David retires?
Hey, the Giants were and are vulnerable to losing some good/very good players. And they have little more than half the money likely needed to re-sign those players themselves.
It's a big challenge for Brian Sabean, especially since he has already missed out on his two or three top targets. But we'll simply have to wait to see how it turns out before forming judgment.
What would have happened had we formed judgment on the Giants' season in early August of 2012 OR 2014?
By the way, I forgot Hunter Pence, who last season his 20 home runs for the 7th straight season. He's probably the Giants' most powerful hitter. So now we could make an argument that Morse and Pablo were only the 4th- and 5th-best power hitters on the team.
And, of course, that was on team with little power.
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Dec 19, 2014 0:59:55 GMT -5
Rog - Morse's and Pablo's being replaced by fast, punchless players wouldn't be all that bad if the two got on base a lot, were top notch base runners and were very good fielders.
Dood - ask Billy Beane how many WS titles he has won using that formula.
Rog - It's a big challenge for Brian Sabean, especially since he has already missed out on his two or three top targets. But we'll simply have to wait to see how it turns out before forming judgment.
Dood - Why? That's what message boards are for...voicing our opinions.
Rog - What would have happened had we formed judgment on the Giants' season in early August of 2012 OR 2014?
Dood - Nothing would have changed
Rog - So now we could make an argument that Morse and Pablo were only the 4th- and 5th-best power hitters on the team.
And, of course, that was on team with little power.
Dood - and you want to make it even less powerful?
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Post by Rog on Dec 19, 2014 13:40:11 GMT -5
Rog - What would have happened had we formed judgment on the Giants' season in early August of 2012 OR 2014? Dood - Nothing would have changed Rog -- Nothing we say here changes anything with the Giants. But we would have looked pretty foolish, wouldn't we? "Why do we talk about this and that when this and that hasn't happened yet?" Tell us your plan, Randy. Tell us your plan. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2624/michael-morse-marlins#ixzz3MN1gc7d5 |
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Post by Rog on Dec 19, 2014 13:51:11 GMT -5
Rog - So now we could make an argument that Morse and Pablo were only the 4th- and 5th-best power hitters on the team. And, of course, that was on team with little power. Dood - and you want to make it even less powerful? Rog -- Of course not. That's a complete red herring. What I was attempting to point out is that there was at least some question as to whether your saying the Giants had lost their top two power hitters was accurate. I nearly fainted when you said that Hunter Pence and Buster Posey were gone! By the way, Pablo's inability to develop his power as it appeared he would is part of the reason he is a very good player, not an excellent one. Morse hit 31 homers for the Nationals in what was a marvelous 2011 season. Aside from that, he's never hit more than 18. Pablo whacked 25 in 2009 and 23 in 2011. Aside from those two seasons, he has yet to hit more than 16. Both players showed fine promise as power hitters. Neither play has been able to reach that promise. Last season the Giants had five players with good power, but none with excellent power. At the moment they have three. It would be nice if they ended the off-season with at least four. On the other hand, the Giants' offensive mantra was "keep the line moving." That speaks far more to getting on base than to power hitting. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2624/michael-morse-marlins?page=1#ixzz3MN2JRbis |
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