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Post by Rog on Dec 8, 2014 2:55:50 GMT -5
The Giants are said to be "very serious" about Jon Lester, but are also said to be considering Max Scherzer, James Shields, Ervin Santana and Francisco Liriano, as well as trade candidate Cole Hamels. As serious as they seem to be about starting pitching, I would think they would land one of those big six.
A 2nd-tier guy I like, Jason Hammel, is said to be close to signing with the Cubs. Hammel has been projected at 3/$30.
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Post by Rog on Dec 8, 2014 10:55:59 GMT -5
Boagie's favorite baseball writer Bob Nightengale writes that the Giants met with Jon Lester's agent last night and hope to have a deal within a couple of days. MLB Trade Rumors' Mark Polishuk writes that Lester's decision "could swing the balance of the entire off season." I believe this is the strongest Giants rumor this off season, at least since Pablo Sandoval signed with the Red Sox. In fact, I believe it is stronger than any Giants rumor written about Pablo. If the Giants do sign Lester, how much will they have left over for third base and left field? Does that mean they will have to go on the cheap to fill those two positions, or will they expand the budget for a player such as Chase Headley or Melky Cabrera? Or possibly Korean slugger Jung-Ho Kang, who is expected to be posted next week. Kang hit .354 with 39 homers in a Korean league that is extremely hitter friendly, and there is question as to how much of his power and batting average will translate to MLB. Kang plays shortstop and is said to have a 60 arm (on a scale of 20-80), but some think he will wind up playing an "unathletic corner guy." The Giants are said to be interested in Kang as a third baseman. Keith Law ranked Kang #15 among free agent prospects. Colby Rasmus might be the second-best outfield free agent left, behind only Cabrera. He has a career mark of .246/.751 and has above-average pop. Rasmus' career more or less parallels Pablo Sandoval's, and he has 116 career homers to 106 from Pablo. Colby's best season was easily 2013, when he hit .276/.840, but in his last four seasons has hit just .225, .223, .276 and .225. Just 28 years old, Rasmus has played almost exclusively center field and appears to be about average for the position. He bats and throws left-handed and has played center for the Cardinals and Blue Jays. (Sounds like a good fit for the outfield strapped Orioles, which would be in keeping with his other team nicknames.) Rasmus swings and missed a lot, striking out once every four at bats. His 14.2% swinging strike rate last season was easily the highest of his career. Although Rasmus' home run rate has been increasing and he's very fast, despite only 28 steals in 43 attempts, he appears a guy to let another team sign at or near eight figures per season.
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Post by rxmeister on Dec 8, 2014 18:21:12 GMT -5
The latest is that Lester will decide between the Giants and Cubs by tomorrow, but the Red Sox have scheduled a meeting with him tonight to try to change his mind. Chase Headley will decide between the Giants and Yankees, but it's believed that of now he's leaning towards NY. Supposedly Jed Lowrie will be next up for the Giants if they don't get Headley.
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Pitchers
Dec 9, 2014 14:45:30 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Dec 9, 2014 14:45:30 GMT -5
I'm not sure what to think of the Lester deal anymore. 6 years, $150 million seems like a lot. And it's still a waiting game. Apparently having 4 teams offering you to be grossly overpaid is not good enough. There's still time to suck more money out of teams that are just trying to compete.
I wasn't around in the first half of the 20th century, when players complained about being underpaid by greedy owners, but I would imagine the popular opinion amongst players and fans were that something needed to change.
And something did change.
Now, I'm seeing greed in the other direction. Who does it hurt? Not the owners, they make their money from their T.V. deals. It hurts the fans. The ticket prices go up and the concession stands get more ridiculous. The fans stay loyal and still unload what little money they do have after necessities to watch the team they follow.
"We do this for the fans." That's what I hear over and over again. It's a line of bullshit. They don't do it for the fans, they do it for their own wallets.
Something needs to change again.
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Pitchers
Dec 9, 2014 14:53:33 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Dec 9, 2014 14:53:33 GMT -5
That's not to say I don't want Lester, I think he would bolster our starting rotation substantially. But at 150 mil, and the greed he is showing, I wouldn't be disappointed if they lost the bidding war and chose a different route.
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Pitchers
Dec 9, 2014 15:06:08 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Dec 9, 2014 15:06:08 GMT -5
We're also losing out on a number of different options while we've waited for Sandoval and Lester to make a decision.
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Dec 9, 2014 15:13:29 GMT -5
Bobby Evans remarked today at how slowly the process seems to be working this offseason and I couldn't agree more. You can get mad at "greedy" players if you want but they have the talent that is driving the entertainment so I have less of a problem with them getting what the market will bear. It's simply the cost of doing business these days Boagie. It's the 21st century now. Like it or not, this is where the game is at. You can't go back to the "good old days" before Free Agency. I hope the Giants don't give up that easily on FAs just because they are trying to maximize their deal. If so, it will be a lot harder to win more titles.
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Post by Rog on Dec 9, 2014 16:05:09 GMT -5
It is now said that Lester's decision will "bleed into tomorrow," but it doesn't appear to be far away. Apparently he has multiple 6/$150 offers. The Giants are believed to have a geographical advantage.
Once Lester signs, things will likely begin to move quickly, and I'm sure the Giants have a backup plan.
The Giants appear to be backing off Chase Headley, which if his health is questionable as Mark mentioned, is probably for the best. It does appear that Headley isn't going to get what was once reported, but the Giants are said to be looking into a couple of trade opportunities to fill the hot corner.
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Post by rxmeister on Dec 9, 2014 16:38:12 GMT -5
I've heard the opposite on Lester, Rog, that he really doesn't want to play on the west coast. The latest news is bad. Bobby Evans was just on XM radio and said he believes the Giants are in the "back seat" on Lester as he has strong emotional ties to the Red Sox and Cubs. Plan A was Panda, plan B was Tomas, Plan C was Lester. What's plan D?
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Pitchers
Dec 9, 2014 17:29:31 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Dec 9, 2014 17:29:31 GMT -5
I think getting ripped after blowing the wild card game for Oakland left a bad taste in his mouth on the west coast, and that's fine.
After tonight, the Giants should go to plan D whether Lester has made a decision or not. And plan D should be resigning Vogelsong, Morse and Romo. Then maybe looking at a trade for a 3rd baseman. If no trades surface, I don't see a problem with starting Duffy there.
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Dec 9, 2014 18:46:28 GMT -5
I don't see the Giants re-signing any of those guys. Morse will probably make the move to the AL full time now since the Giants basically told the entire NL that he cant play OF anymore, starting novice Ishikawa ahead of Michael. Romo I don't see wanting to return and Vogey is 4 or 5 steps down from the starter the Giants feel they need to be successful. If Vogey is re-signed, the Giants will be on Plan ZZZ. If Lester signs elsewhere, look for the Giants to try to move quickly on Scherzer.
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Post by Rog on Dec 9, 2014 23:16:59 GMT -5
Lester hasn't yet made his decision, but he has told the Giants they are out. At least they are able to move on.
I'm not sold on Romo, Vogelsong, Morse and a trade for a third baseman (or Duffy). The Giants could always make a play for Scherzer, but I suspect they're ready to move fairly quickly now that both Plan A (Sandoval) and Plan B (Lester) are gone.
Ervin Santana could be a nice move for the rotation. He's been pretty good the past two seasons. Melky Cabrera might be worth the money in left field. Not as sure about that one, but on short notice I can't come up with a better alternative. I could live with Mike Morse. Maybe Casey McGeehee would be the third baseman they would trade for. Casey didn't hit for power last season, but for a long time he was among the league leaders in RBI's.
I'm with Mark now about not signing Chase Headley due to his injury history. Not that I wouldn't go for him if the price were right.
The Giants don't seem to have much to trade, but they don't seem to be letting that stop them. I doubt it, but perhaps they're sold enough on Duffy that they would trade Brandon Crawford. Brandon would have a lot of trade value, and I'm not sure how much higher it could get, given that he's coming off a good season in the field and 69 RBI's at the plate. Crawford might bring a nice bat for the hot corner.
That would be a tough one, but whom else do they have to trade that would bring an good return? Andrew Susac would likely have trade value, but I would hate to see him go unless it was in a very significant deal.
Perhaps now the Giants will re-sign Sergio Romo, but I think they have much cheaper replacements in their own system right now. They've got to save money SOMEWHERE.
It depends on price, of course, but I like Santana if he's reasonable. Morse complements Blanco nicely, but he would likely sign a two-year contract, which would mean he and Angel Pagan would be free agents again at the same time, unless Pagan were extended. I like the Morse idea, with that one caveat. I would play Mike at first base and move Belt to the outfield, as I believe most here would.
I'd like the Giants to be able to pick up a third baseman without having to give up anyone, but there's not much behind Headley, who will likely be risky at what his contract turns out to be. Maybe Headley will return to the Yankees, and the Giants could trade for Martin Prado. Or maybe McGeehee will be the guy.
Apparently Lester will not.
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Post by Rog on Dec 9, 2014 23:21:20 GMT -5
Randy -- Morse will probably make the move to the AL full time now since the Giants basically told the entire NL that he cant play OF anymore, starting novice Ishikawa ahead of Michael. Rog -- I don't think the Giants told anyone that Mike can't play the outfield anymore; I think they told them they didn't have confidence in his when he had been out long enough to perhaps be rusty with both the bat and the glove. Even if Mike can't play the outfield though, that might not disqualify him from playing first base. Hey, at least with the loss of Lester, the Giants can move on to Plan C. I would think they would make at least one move fairly quickly, perhaps then waiting on at least one position to see how things sort out. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2613/pitchers?page=1#ixzz3LSuMm143
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Pitchers
Dec 9, 2014 23:48:44 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Dec 9, 2014 23:48:44 GMT -5
There's a rumor now that the Giants and Braves are discussing a trade for Justin Upton and Kelly Johnson. Sources are saying that the Braves aren't looking for a lot in return if the other team takes Johnson too.
I thought maybe the Giants might be talking to the Braves yesterday when they mentioned Johnson and Upton being packaged together. A left fielder and a 3rd baseman...it only makes sense for the Giants to at least look into this option further.
I'm not too excited with Johnson, and I'm also not a big Justin Upton fan, but I've always been curious about what might happen if you stick Upton on a good team. He's a dumb player, he makes a lot of mental mistakes and he tends to shut down at times. But talent wise there really is no equal. You put him in a Giants clubhouse and you might see him finally blossom.
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Post by rxmeister on Dec 10, 2014 8:10:34 GMT -5
It's actually Chris Johnson, not Kelly, and supposedly the Braves are attaching him to an Upton deal to get rid of him. I've heard the Giants want Upton only, which they should. A problem with Upton though is that he has previously said he hates playing in SF because the ball doesn't carry. Perhaps being there full time with the Giants might change his mind, but he could be a one and done player since he's a free agent after 2015.
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Post by rxmeister on Dec 10, 2014 8:13:02 GMT -5
Other names I've heard: Jed Lowrie, Ervin Santana, Dillon Gee. I could see a package deal of Gee (although I prefer Niese) and Daniel Murphy. With the Giants out on Lester with oodles of cash, expect a lot of rumors today on the final full day of winter meetings.
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Post by Rog on Dec 10, 2014 9:09:16 GMT -5
Max Scherzer is looking for a $200 million contract. His agent, Scott Boras, is showing teams his arm has a lot less mileage on it than either Lester or James Shields, so I'll bet he gets at least $175 million.
There was a rumor the Giants were prepared to go something like $168 million for Lester, but Brian Sabean said that the Giants weren't given an opportunity to make their best offer.
With regard to the Giants' "oodles of cash," I guess that may come down to perspective. I saw a note that had an optimistic feel when it was said that the Astros have at least $20 million to spend this off-season. I believe the Giants have somewhere around $30 million, so perhaps that is indeed "oodles of cash."
I'm thinking there may be some bargains available if a team is patient. In theory at least, teams have only so much money to spend. With the top players' seeming to get more than expected, that might cut the pool of money available to the lesser lights by quite a bit.
The Giants are talking about trades, so apparently they're serious about that approach, but I'm having a hard time seeing what they have to trade. A year ago it looked like their young pitching, but comments on the Giants are that they are looking for pitching in part because their young pitchers haven't come along as expected.
So what do they trade to get anyone of value?
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Post by Rog on Dec 10, 2014 9:16:06 GMT -5
By the way, I'm not saying the Giants can't do it. Obviously they think they can. I'm just lookiing for ideas here on what they might be looking to trade.
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Post by donk33 on Dec 10, 2014 14:50:16 GMT -5
scary thing on MLB TV, projected SF line up...Scutaro,3B
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Post by rxmeister on Dec 10, 2014 22:29:59 GMT -5
That's just ridiculous. They can say whatever they want. Season isn't starting tomorrow.
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