Yasmany Tomas to Dbacks

[rxmeister]

Not only do the Giants not get him, but he goes to a team where the Giants will see him 19 times a year. Starting to think Randy is right about these international signings. Jerry Crasnick said he talked to a couple of GM's and they said that it's not Sabean's style to sign unknown players with no track record. The price? 6 yrs 68 million. Much cheaper than anticipated. By the way, it's reported that just like with Abreu, the Giants were the runner up. Keep sitting on that ass, Sabes!!

[Rog]

I too am surprised at how cheaply Tomas came. But I imagine that had to do with the many doubts about him.

Should the Giants have gone a little higher to get him? On the surface I would say yes, since he wouldn't have eaten up much more than a third of the remaining salary budget.

But I would hope the Giants are using the strategy of setting a limit on what a player's value is, and then not exceeding that limit. I'm a little surprised they didn't think his value was higher, but I think overall the Giants' scouting staff has done a pretty good job.

So while I'm moderately disappointed, I will continue to trust the Giants' scouts until otherwise proven.

On the one hand, the Giants' major league scouts have a better track record than their international scouts. On the other, I was against signing Tomas -- although not necessarily at this price!

Based on what I've read, the Cuban I like is Moncada. I just saw on Bleacher Reports that the Giants are rated a 13-1 chance of signing him. There are a lot of teams chasing these Cuban free agents, so the odds of any one team's signing them aren't usually very high. The Yankees were rated as having the best chance, at 5-1.

Even if Tomas came down to four teams, that essentially means that the odds of the Giants' being the one team out of the four are 3-1. My point is that a team is usually going to miss more free agents than it signs.

I am worried though that the Giants will need a fair amount of creativity if they are going to fill all three needs with good players. If the Giants spread the money evenly, that would be $10 million for each spot. And it's tough to get truly good players for $10 million.

Not impossible though, and the Giants have done a pretty good job of scouting at the major league level. They have had more success though with trades than free agent signings. But if the scouting is truly good, that likely will change.

I'm excited to see what happens. As Randy or Mark said, Brian truly has a challenge this winter. That was true whether he signed Pablo or not.

Two tradeable players the Giants have would be the two Brandons, but they wouldn't save all that many dollars by trading either of them. They don't really have a replacement for Belt, although in theory Matt Duffy could step in for Crawford.

But the guys we'd like to trade are mostly untradeable. The Giants are going to need good scouting, and they're probably going to need to get a little lucky. It would be nice if at least two of the three guys they sign to fill the three needs work out well. And with the money available, that's a tricky proposition.

[sfgdood]

No Pablo

No Tomas

Failed offseason

Enjoy the banner ceremony and ring ceremony next April. It might be a while before we see another one.

[rxmeister]

Why are they waiting for April to do the ring ceremony? Since you've already labeled the offseason a failure, the season obviously starts tomorrow.

[Rog]

Many were surprised at how low Tomas came. Two reasons the Giants were outbid may be Tomas' poor defensive reputation and their feeling that Tomas' power wouldn't play at AT&T. Tomas' power is believed to be very good, but he is considered a one-dimensional player.

$68.5 million seems low, but most seemed to agree that Tomas carried a lot of risk.

The Giants are said to be interested in a 21-year-old Cuban pitcher, who still has to clear in order to come to the US. At this point it would seem to make sense that the biggest off season play by the Giants would come in pitching.

[rxmeister]

He's a relief pitcher who throws 100 mph, and perhaps can replace Sergio Romo if he leaves. Romo isn't getting much action from what I've heard, although I read the Houston Astros of all teams are interested in him as a closer.

[Rog]

Maybe as the relief group thins Sergio will get more attention. I suspect he'll still wind up with a very nice contract.

[klaiggeb]

I personally, am glad we did not sighn him.

Here's my questions:

1-Of all of the Cuban exiles signed, how many come to the show as "team Players?"

From what I read, not many. All seem to be if not FROM the Puig mold, then close to it. Selfish


2-How many of these guys come to the show ready to PLAY in the show?

Not many. Puig has all of the talent one could imagine... but he's a detriment as he grows into his talent.

3-Why in the world would anyone believe the guy can play big league defense? I mean, his defense is ALREADY considered below average.

Sorry. I'll take my chancess with:

1-A team player with talent.

2-A guy who is 'team oriented.'

3-A guy who 'fits in' with what the Giants are doing, and have done.


I'll pass on unknown free agents. We simply don't have the budge for that.

boly

[sfgdood]

I have a hard time believing that there are any FAs out there at a position of need that fits all three of your lofty requirements

[Rog]

Boly -- I personally, am glad we did not sighn him.

Here's my questions:

1-Of all of the Cuban exiles signed, how many come to the show as "team Players?"

Rog -- You know how much I respect your opinion, Boly, but isn't that tainting him merely through stereotyping? Doesn't sound fair to me.

If we know he's not a team player, we should indeed hold that against him for every bit of what it means. But if we don't know, why should we hold it against him?

Instead, before we were to sign him, wouldn't it behoove us to learn the truth? I don't know the truth. None of us here does. Should we use something against a player without even knowing if it is true or not?

I spoke out against signing him BASED ON WHAT I KNEW (from a couple of scouting reports). But at the price he received, I certainly would have considered it.

I think the Giants would have been happy if they had signed Abreu. He did have a better scouting report than Tomas, but he was still a risk. The Giants tried hard to sign him, but as has become a frustrating trend, they finished second.

Perhaps he isn't enough of a team player for the White Sox to like him. If so, it would be nice if they traded him to the Giants. Tomas is unproven. Abreu has proven himself.

Back to Boras. He was accused in The Hardball Times of being unethical -- at the possible expense of his CLIENTS. He represents multiple clients, and sometimes their interests come into conflict (such as when two of his players are free agents at the same time and possibly even the same position). One would assume his clients know this. He may even tell them this going in.

Nowhere have I seen that he is unethical in a way that hurts the clubs or baseball itself. Hey, maybe his IS unscrupulous. But we don't know that, so why do we pick on the guy?

I believe we often make judgments based on what we THINK is truth, rather than what we know to be the truth.

Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2600/yasmany-tomas-dbacks#ixzz3KcfnmIlD

[klaiggeb]

Randy: I have a hard time believing that there are any FAs out there at a position of need that fits all three of your lofty requirements

---boly says---

Frankly, I'm stunned that you would say that, Randy, Considering whom Sabean has picked up:

Burrell, Blanco, Huff, Lopez, Affeldt, Morse, Hudson, Vogey, Peavey. and regardless of how he left, Cabrerra fits that mold, too.

boly

[klaiggeb]

Rog, my comments on UNKNOWN players from other countries are the same REGARDLESS of the country. They so often get HUGE press yet have done nothing at the major league level to warrant either the big bucks teams pay, or the notoriety the leagues heap upon them.

As to stereotyping, yes, I did.

I also agree with profiling based upon history. And with Puig at the forefront, the history of the large majority of Cuban Players that I AM aware of is that often, they are not team players; they are memememe players, in exactly the way so many of our most talented, yet arrogant American ayers are here.

If I saw the same thing from Korean, or Japanese, or Chinese players, I'd say the same thing. But their history is different.

Same as the Venezuelan, Mexican, and Dominican players we've seen over the years. SOME are arrogant, mememe, just like we have here, but the large majority are not.


I bitch about American players the same way. Is that, then, stereotyping?

If it is, I'm guilty.

boly

[sfgdood]

Randy: I have a hard time believing that there are any FAs out there at a position of need that fits all three of your lofty requirements

---boly says---

Frankly, I'm stunned that you would say that, Randy, Considering whom Sabean has picked up:

Burrell, Blanco, Huff, Lopez, Affeldt, Morse, Hudson, Vogey, Peavey. and regardless of how he left, Cabrerra fits that mold, too.

Dood - I was speaking of what's out there on the market currently. I assume when you say "talented" you mean above average talent. Because there may be a few team players out there and maybe one or two of those guys "fit in" with what the Giants are doing, whatever that means because for the life of me I'm not seeing it right now. And how many of those one or two also have above average talent? I've seen your criticism of the Giants in recent years and in MLB players of today in general and I'm not convinced that what is remaining on the market would meet your standards. Personally I can't even see just the talent standard being met except by a couple pitchers who will get paid much bigger salaries than what Pablo got.

As for your list...Lopez and Peavey were trade acquisitions not FAs...Vogey, Huff, Burrell, Blanco and Morse were not considered real talented or else past their prime...Hudson is near retirement. I can't really believe you consider that Cabrerra fits that mold after what he pulled. That one pretty much throws me for a loop.

[sfgdood]

I take issue with the term "unknown" to describe foreign ballplayers. These players may not have been in the big leagues, but they are hardly unknown in scouting circles. Maybe unproven in the big leagues but for the most part, in recent years, these high salaried signee players have shown themselves to be more than capable of producing at the big league level, mainly because they are NOT unknown at all.

[klaiggeb]

When I say "unknown," Randy, I'm referring ONLY to one thing; it is "unknown" how they will fare in the Show.

What they did in Japan, or Cuba, or Korea should NEVER effect what they get paid here, any more than a college player coming up.

college players are extensively scouted... but very few perform at those levels.

boly

[sfgdood]

You're kidding yourself if you don't believe leagues in Cuba, Korea and Japan aren't a lot closer to MLB than the NCAA.

[klaiggeb]

Randy--I can't really believe you consider that Cabrerra fits that mold after what he pulled. That one pretty much throws me for a loop.

---boly says---

Randy, you misunderstood. I DON'T want him back. I was referring to a player of his "type," nothing more.

I agree with you. When he split without saying ANYTHING to the team... as Monica said on Friends, once; I'd tell him, "Bite me, paperboy."

boly

[rxmeister]

Melky is supposedly in heavy talks with the Mariners right now. I think it speaks of the way the Giants handle things that we hear little of what they're doing. I don't hear much on Headley right now, although I keep reading certain teams are out, so someone is probably in advanced talks with him. The Yankees are the latest to drop out.