Work still to be done... and looking ahead to next year

[klaiggeb]

Yeah... I know. We ain't done yet. There is still more of this year to play out.

For tonight, however, the team, and I... get a couple days respite... but being the OCD guy that I am... I can't help think about how we have now, and who won't be here next year.

And for me, there's a sadness in that.

Vogey-I flat out love the guy. I do. His story is not quite as good as that of Kurt Warner, but it's a dandy. I just don't see him in next year's picture.


Pablo-He talked and talked about team chemistry. Now we'll find out if he puts his wallet where his mouth is. 3 World Series appearances in 5 years. He's NOT likely to find that elsewhere.

Does he REALLY appreciate what he has? We'll see.


Peavy-I don't see him repeating what he did this year, but I wouldn't mind him back next year. He'll get decent money, but I'm sure he could get more elsewhere. Does he REALLY love playing for Bochy? And how important IS the CHANCE to go the post season next year to him? Like Pablo, we'll find out.


Lopez-He's been but a shadow of what he has been, and he labored throwing strikes A LOT this year. If he signed a 2 year deal, obviously he's back, but if he didn't? He's still quality, but at what cost?



Hector Sanchez-If I'm management, I try to move him. For ME, Susac has won the job hands down. I wonder if they'll wait until the end of Spring Training next year to see for sure if Susac is the guy.

Me? I move him IF I can get something back.


Lincecum-I do NOT see a rotation spot for him next year. I don't. He has a year left on his deal, and IMHO, we MUST rebuild the staff. We have Bumgarner, Hudson, and Cain... but who knows what we'll get from Matty next year.

That's ONE guy you can count on. Not enough.


Arias-2 really good years, and then this, clunker. I think I'd keep him if I could. He can play too many places, but he's likely to get a good offer elsewhere. I'll miss him.



Ishi-I'd love to keep on as a PH next year, at the very least. I do not want to see him as the LF starter. He's earned a chance at a spotl


Morse-did he DO enough last year to earn an invite back? I'd argue that, yes, when you add the first part of the year in... he did. But I wouldn't just hand him a job, nor would I break the bank to pay him. Will he take less to stay? he claims he loves it here. We'll see.


Oh, well, those are my thoughts.


boly

[sfgdood]

Boly - Pablo-He talked and talked about team chemistry. Now we'll find out if he puts his wallet where his mouth is. 3 World Series appearances in 5 years. He's NOT likely to find that elsewhere.

Does he REALLY appreciate what he has? We'll see.


Dood - I look at it the opposite way...do the Giants really appreciate Pablo? If they aren't willing to pony up the dough to keep him, who could possibly blame the Panda for taking full advantage of what is quite likely to be the last best chance for him to cash in on his talents?

[sfgdood]

Boly - Hector Sanchez-If I'm management, I try to move him. For ME, Susac has won the job hands down. I wonder if they'll wait until the end of Spring Training next year to see for sure if Susac is the guy.

Me? I move him IF I can get something back.


Dood - I make an open competition in Spring Training between Hector and Andrew for the backup spot. If Andrew wins, we shop Hector. If Hector wins, Andrew gets more seasoning in Fresno, and possibly we bring him up later if Hector struggles...or possibly use one of them as a trading chip.

[sfgdood]

Ishi-I'd love to keep on as a PH next year, at the very least. I do not want to see him as the LF starter. He's earned a chance at a spotl


Dood - Not to splash cold reality on the fairy tale but, lest we forget, Ish was released and struggling so bad in the minors that he considered quitting baseball. He has earned an invite to ST but not a contract.

[klaiggeb]

I remember, Randy, I remember.

But... he's a valuable vet off the bench, and that's the role I'd have for him.

boly

[sfgdood]

we can do better

[islandboagie]

Petit was struggling in the minors when we got him, guess he's a pile of shit too.

Boly, don't listen to Randy, he's hated Ishikawa since at least 2011. , if you're not brain dead, you realize Ishikawa had trouble landing a spot on a big league club because most teams don't have room for a backup first baseman. Now that he's learned to play the outfield a little, I see him as a very serviceable backup outfielder/1st baseman and pinch hitter. The Giants would be foolish not to find him a spot in 2015.

[donk33]

Oct 17, 2014 21:13:04 GMT -5 sfgdood said:

Ishi-I'd love to keep on as a PH next year, at the very least. I do not want to see him as the LF starter. He's earned a chance at a spotl


Dood - Not to splash cold reality on the fairy tale but, lest we forget, Ish was released and struggling so bad in the minors that he considered quitting baseball. He has earned an invite to ST but not a contract.

dk...Blanco couldn't make 2 AAA teams and sat out most of one season before the Giants signed him...Vogey had trouble in Japan and this country before he got back in the game...a good part of the "pen" were career minor leaguers before they stuck with the Giants....

[sfgdood]

Boagie - Petit was struggling in the minors when we got him, guess he's a pile of shit too.

Boly, don't listen to Randy, he's hated Ishikawa since at least 2011. , if you're not brain dead, you realize Ishikawa had trouble landing a spot on a big league club because most teams don't have room for a backup first baseman. Now that he's learned to play the outfield a little, I see him as a very serviceable backup outfielder/1st baseman and pinch hitter. The Giants would be foolish not to find him a spot in 2015.

Dood - no hate whatsoever. I'm just not ready to give him an automatic roster spot for one timely hit. Petit wasn't given a guaranteed spot when he struggling in the minors, either. Yusmeiro wasn't even guaranteed a spot after a near perfecto.

[rxmeister]

It was more than one timely hit, Randy, it was two in this series alone, and he did a nice pinch hitting job for the team all season. They had nothing on the bench until Ishi and Susac were called up. As for Hector, his trade value is nil, so he's going nowhere until he proves he's healthy. In an open competition with Susac he really doesn't have a shot because Susac is better at everything. Some people like to keep 3 catchers though so they can pinch hit the backup and pinch run for the slow starter, so I think all 3 can make the team. And Boly, Joaquin Arias signed a two year deal, which is probably the reason he wasn't released, so he'll be back next year

[klaiggeb]

Mark-And Boly, Joaquin Arias signed a two year deal, which is probably the reason he wasn't released, so he'll be back next year

---boly says---

Thanks, Mark. I don't keep up on that stuff.



I like your logic in why Ishi is valuable next year. EVERY team needs a veteran LH on the bench, and Ishi fits that role nicely.

I don't want to automatically hand him a job... but I'd give him every chance possible to win it.

boly

[Rog]

Boly -- Arias-2 really good years, and then this, clunker. I think I'd keep him if I could. He can play too many places, but he's likely to get a good offer elsewhere. I'll miss him.

Rog -- I believe Joaquin is still under team control.

[Rog]

Boly -- Will he take less to stay? he claims he loves it here. We'll see.

Rog -- Morse is making only 1/$6. I certainly wouldn't expect him to take a cut.

[Rog]

Dood - no hate whatsoever. I'm just not ready to give him an automatic roster spot for one timely hit.

Rog -- Travis has done much more for the Giants since his return than just that one big hit. That said, I too would be hesitant to give him a guaranteed contract, although I wouldn't rule it out. I'd have to look at the situation a lot closer.

[rxmeister]

I don't see why Ishi isn't worth a one year one million dollar fully guaranteed deal. He's worth it just to pinch hit and get an occasional start when someone is hurt. Who's the big prospect that stays in the minors because Ishi's here? Of course changes will happen this off season that could increase or decrease Ishi's chances of staying. I'm hoping the Giants' success doesn't mean they lose interest in that Cuban stud Yasmany Thomas.

[klaiggeb]

Once again, as Mark has frequently pointed out, we've wandered away from the thread's title.

I was talking about who would/might or wouldn't be here next year.

What do we need to contend again, and we've morphed into one player.


We're in the World Series, and all I see under every thread, or darned near, is arguments.


Sheesh.


How about some positives, objective observations?

boly

[Rog]

Mark -- I don't see why Ishi isn't worth a one year one million dollar fully guaranteed deal.

Rog -- I'll definitely go along with that.

[Rog]

I love talking about the future. We've been doing that since, well, the past.

Isn't Thomas a power-hitting shortstop? That's a rare combination. My thought about him was that he might be a Pablo replacement.

We've pretty much talked about all the Giants' position decisions, but we can start anew.

The Giants have two starting pitching decisions, with Peavy, Vogelsong and Petit two internal possibilities. I believe Yusmeiro is still under team control, while the other are eligible for free agency.

The Giants have three catchers for two spots, and Susac and I believe Sanchez could be sent back down if necessary.

On the infield the Giants have to decide about Ehire Adrianza -- and perhaps whether they want to get full playing time for Matt Duffy at Fresno. Keeping Adrianza up and letting Matt get added experience at Fresno seems to make sense. There is the decision as to whether to keep Isikawa, which seems almost a no-brainer reward at this point (which isn't to say it's a good idea).

Left field is a big question mark. If the Giants bring back Morse, it would probably be a good idea to acquire a right-handed hitter who could fill in along with Blanco in the event of loss of the injury-plagued Morse and/or Pagan.

Whether to re-sign Romo is the big issue for the bullpen. Hunter Strickland appears to be being groomed for a set up or closer role, and Derek Law should be back from Tommy John surgery.

The single biggest decision --literally and figuratively -- is whether to re-sign Pablo. Possible replacements include Thomas and Chase Headley.

Money will almost certainly be an issue, as seems to be the case virtually every season. I think the Giants may already have more dollars committed than the payroll they began this season with. Probably not quite, but close enough to be bothersome with possible big-ticket contracts including a third baseman, a left fielder and two starting pitchers. Romo won't come cheaply in the bullpen.

I like the idea of Thomas, although obviously I don't know much of anything about him. Most shortstops can switch to other infield positions though, and the idea of a power hitter in intriguing.

So there you have my nothing in a nutshell.

[rxmeister]

He's not a shortstop Rog, he's an outfielder. I believe he's played RF most often so if the Giants signed him I guess he would move to LF.

[Rog]

Clearly I'm misinformed. It would be nice if the guy I was thinking of were someone else who IS a shortstop, although that's only one ghird base possibility anyway.

If the Giants signed Thomas and he is truly a good right fielder, it might not be the end of the world to move Hunter Pence to left. Hunter's arm is only so-so for a right fielder, although he covers a lot of ground playing the position.

I think Pagan is overrated. I realize how much better the Giants' record has been the past two seasons with Angel than without him, but there can be many other factors that affect such a situation. Here are some factors that augur against the presumed phenomenon of Pagan's huge value to the Giants' winning:

. The big argument is the record thing. Yet the Giants lost five of the last six games Angel played before his injury and all the first five games after his return. Kind of makes it sound as if whatever was causing the losing began before Angel left and continue for a while after his return.

Somehow the Giants have gone 8-2 without him this post season.

. Angel is considered to be a spark plug. Yet his .338 career OBP as a Giant isn't at all exceptional. In fact, it is all of two points higher than Gregor Blanco's as a Giant. Pagan is a spark plug and Blanco is a pop up hitter?

So perhaps it is Angel's ability to steal bases that is the basis of starting the blazes. Except that Angel's 54 steals in 71 attempts as a Giant is good, but nothing exceptional. In fact, it's just a tiny bit better than Blanco's 56 steals in 76 attempts.

So really, Pagan does little that Blanco doesn't do with regard to causing a spark.

What he does do is hit for quite a bit more power, but certainly Pagan's power doesn't spark the Giants -- not when Posey, Pence, Pablo, Belt and Morse are each clearly more powerful than Angel.

In fact, this past season both Blanco (1.44 bases per hit) and Crawford (1.58 bases per hit) showed easily more power than Pagan (1.30 bases per hit). In fact, Angel was closer to Joe Panik (1.24 bases per hit including the post season). Over his full career, Angel has averaged 1.45 bases per hit, which is more of a Nate Schierholtz or Randy Winn level.

Blanco is easily the better fielder of the two. So, really, when the Giants have to replace Pagan with Blanco, they lose a little, not a lot. Where they lose the most is that they then don't have Blanco for quality depth.

Pagan is overrated and/or Blanco is underrated.

What this means for the Giants going forward is that if they get a good right-hand hitting platoon center fielder to play with Blanco, they should lose very little when Pagan is hurt. If Gary Brown could step it up, he could become that right-handed platoon center fielder -- although he would need to step it up quite a bit. That wouldn't solve left field, of course, but it would provide the Giants with nice outfield depth, something they clearly need, given that one or more of their outfielders runs a serious risk of being injury-prone.

Bringing back Michael Morse and giving Blanco a little bigger role might not be too bad a plan. Morse would need to be both short-term and inexpensive though. Perhaps Blanco should be used more often to rest Pagan, hopefully protecting Angel from injury.