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Post by donk33 on Oct 6, 2014 13:41:28 GMT -5
in case any one missed it....Jerome Williams had a fairly good close of a season with the Phils...while he only had something like 4-3, he had a respectable ERA and a rare achievement...he defeated the A's 3 times with 3 different teams. Also, Phil Hughes ended up with some very good numbers and he broke a major league record for K's/BB with a ratio of over 11...Phil pitching in his last game of the season...still 4 games to go for the Twins...he was ahead when the game was delayed over an hour by rain...he needed one more out to qualify for $500,000 bonus...the manager asked him if he wanted to go on pitching when the game resumed..he declined saying he owed it to the team to not risk getting injured ...the manager asked if he wanted to pitch the last game of the season and he gave the same answer...he owed to the team not to risk an injury by pitching out of turn...Phil is a "friend" of my Granddaughter from Foothill High.... that was why I was surprised that Bochy sent Hudson out after a 21/2 hour delay..of course Hudson has had a full career and Hughes still hasn't reached 30...
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Post by islandboagie on Oct 6, 2014 13:53:31 GMT -5
It was Peavy that pitched in the rain delay, but your point is still valid.
However, don't most of us (you included) criticize players for being too soft nowadays? If that's our opinion, shouldn't Peavy and Bochy be praised rather than second guessed?
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sfgdood
Long time member 
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Oct 6, 2014 14:23:02 GMT -5
ironically Peavy continued in that rain delay game because he felt he owed it to his team to give all he had
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Post by donk33 on Oct 6, 2014 21:59:58 GMT -5
It was Peavy that pitched in the rain delay, but your point is still valid. However, don't most of us (you included) criticize players for being too soft nowadays? If that's our opinion, shouldn't Peavy and Bochy be praised rather than second guessed? dk..I would not criticize a pitcher for not going out to the mound after a long rain delay.....but then again, I did some crazy things with my arm...and I lived to regret it....I think Hughes was nuts...but I don't have 500K to turn down..... |
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Post by rxmeister on Oct 7, 2014 8:32:33 GMT -5
I was an advocate of signing Hughes in the off season and I remember Allen arguing with me on it, as he's a Yankee fan and has seen him pitch many times. Allen, wherever you are my friend, come back for the I told you so! As for Jerome Williams, who was one of the Giants supposed future star rotation, none of whom made it, I give him much credit for persevering, and having a decent journeyman career.
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Post by Rog on Oct 7, 2014 13:55:36 GMT -5
I think Hughes did better than anyone expected, but Allen overlooked how well Phil had pitched outside Yankee Stadium. He also placed too much emphasis on Hughes' horrible won-loss record.
At one time, Phil was considered the top pitching prospect in the game.
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Post by Rog on Oct 7, 2014 13:56:21 GMT -5
By the way, I should mention that Allen had other pitching ideas which would have worked out well, and he was against the re-signing of Tim Lincecum.
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Oct 7, 2014 15:02:30 GMT -5
you don't KNOW they would have worked out well
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Post by Rog on Oct 8, 2014 8:23:39 GMT -5
You are right, Randy, that we don't know for sure if Allen's ideas would have worked out well. I probably should have said that some of the pitchers Allen recommended pitched well this season at reasonable prices.
I thought Allen's idea of bringing back Jonathan Sanchez was just over the top though!
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Post by Rog on Oct 8, 2014 8:46:49 GMT -5
I was trying to give Allen a little credit here. Certainly not all the pitchers he recommended pitched well this season. The one common thread most of them had though was that they weren't overly expensive. Thus, Allen would have had more left to meet other needs.
The Giants got pretty decent value themselves out of their final position signing (Morse) and their final pitching signing (Vogelsong). Add Jake Peavy as their trade deadline move, and the Giants fared quite well with their last three major acquisitions. They also did well with the recycled Travis Ishikawa.
Not to mention Panik and Susac from the minors. Moving from San Jose to the majors in one season, Matt Duffy was quite a surprise. Hunter Strickland, although Hunter's star has clearly been tarnished. But for coming seemingly out of nowhere to make the postseason roster, the two AA players were surprising. Gary Brown was a bit of a surprise as well.
Heck, the Giants have been doing it with retreads and prospects who a year ago wouldn't have been expected to be here. I have long been a Joe Panik fan and stated when Marco Scutaro was re-signed for three seasons that the final year could stand in the way of Joe Panik's natural progression -- but I certainly didn't think Joe would come up a year earlier than THAT and play this well. And ESPECIALLY not after a down 2013 season.
Next season the Giants may need a third baseman, a left fielder and an extra outfielder. Their minor league system (including recent call ups) isn't too well stocked there. Brown, Duvall and Dominguez have filled those roles in the minors, but I would be surprised if any of them are able to fill them next season in the majors. Brown in particular would have a shot at the extra outfielder role though. Possibly Dominguez.
Duvall and Dominguez are both originally third basemen, but I don't see either of them taking Pablo's place. Dominguez has helped himself in that he can play a bunch of positions and has even played 34 games at shortstop -- believe it or not, Ripley.
As for this postseason, it would be nice to see Brown get a shot and come through. MAN, could the Giants use Morse back. Yet so far they are 4-1 in the post season despite not having Morse, Pagan, Scutaro or Cain. Pretty amazing, isn't it?
So it's the Giants or Cards in the World Series. Both teams have been nice success stories in the past five seasons.
Next season we'll see if the Giants can be a good team in an ODD-numbered season. I suspect they'll do a lot less re-signing of free agents than they did after the 2010 and 2012 seasons. That said, Peavy has to have opened their minds, and the alternatives to Pablo may not be too good. Heck, even Morse could be hard to replace.
I guess the Sergio Romo question will be decided by price. Clearly the Giants are grooming Hunter Strickland to take his place. Juan Perez could have taken a firm grip on being the 5th outfielder next season, but instead may have played himself off the 40-man roster. Despite up and down seasons, Blanco and Arias looked poised for return -- especially Gregor. Most of the bullpen should be back.
What to do with Ryan Vogelsong? Even more baffling, what in the heck do they do with Tim Lincecum, who right now is their #12 pitcher?
Hopefully, three and a half more weeks of excitement -- and then a full winter of challenge and excitement, as well. What will be next year's balance of post season experience and new blood?
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Post by klaiggeb on Oct 8, 2014 10:12:03 GMT -5
Rog, I don't see Strickland's star as being tarnished.
he learned some valuable lessons under a microscope.
Had this happened during the year, everyone would have said; "it's just a steep learning curve for a young pitcher."
It's the playoffs, and thus, everything has been magnified.
This experience, I believe, will benefit him vs the Cardinals, and, if we're really fortunate, in the World Series.
At the very least, it'll really pay off next year.
boly
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Post by Rog on Oct 10, 2014 10:58:10 GMT -5
Boly -- Rog, I don't see Strickland's star as being tarnished. he learned some valuable lessons under a microscope. Had this happened during the year, everyone would have said; "it's just a steep learning curve for a young pitcher." It's the playoffs, and thus, everything has been magnified. Rog -- I don't think Strickland's star has been obliterated, but I can't see it hasn't been tarnished a little. The only problem he's really had is giving up three home runs -- and only one not to a player with slicked-down hair and immaturity to match. That said, let's look at Strickland compared to Sergio Romo back in early 2010. Remember back when you were so mad at Sergio you could have sent him back to Brawley in a second? Strickland is pitching in the playoffs at the age of 26. Romo was pitching in late and extra innings at the age of 27. Romo was in his second full season in the major leagues. Strickland is barely wet behind the ears as far as pitching in the majors is concerned. Hunter is near the end of his 8th season in organized ball. Romo was at the beginning of his 6th season. Strickland has given up three home runs, none of which has wound up truly costing the Giants. Romo gave up three homers and lost three games. We're seeing a lot of similarities here, yet we were all over Sergio and are now giving Hunter a little bit of a pass. The point I'm trying to make isn't that we should be all over Hunter and give up on him. My point is that context makes the difference. Romo lost three games with his three home runs allowed, while Strickland hasn't really cost the Giants anything. We point out back then that Romo was likely going through an unfortunate time with regards to giving up the long ball at key junctures. His career since has demonstrated that to be correct. I guess the lesson here is that we should indeed learn from the lesson of Romo and apply it to Strickland. Romo had a better and much longer track record back the, making it more clear that his struggle was an aberration. Still, Strickland had a WONDERFUL season in AA this year, with 48 strikeouts compared to only four walks. Almost eerily, Strickland's great ratio season at Richmond this season (48/4) is quite similar to the 70/5 ratio Romo put up for the Giants the very next season. So Strickland's star still shines. There is no reason he can't bounce back as Romo did. Romo's recovery was predictable, as we discussed at the time. Strickland's is quite as predictable, given his lack of proven experience, but it seems quite likely. Hunter's star still shines brightly. But I don't have quite as much confidence putting him into a key situation as I did before the Washington series. Do the rest of us? Hunter went from a near-spotless record to one that now at least shows he's human. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2493/recent-player-discussion#ixzz3FkytmzI8 |
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Post by klaiggeb on Oct 10, 2014 12:36:30 GMT -5
I do, Rog. I still have great confidence in him.
He's in the show late ONLY because of injuries... or at least, mostly.
Remember, Koufax labored for YEARS until he 'FIGURED IT OUT.'
That's the story of many pitchers; it takes a while to harness their talent.
Randy Johnson would be another example.
boly
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