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Post by Rog on Sept 19, 2014 17:53:16 GMT -5
There has been a fair amount of discussion here about whether the Giants have been serious players and whether they ever land the big one. According to Peter Gammons, the answer to the first part is a clear yes. As to whether they'll land the big one, let's simply hope they can do so. With 30 teams -- perhaps at least half a dozen of which have legitimate interest -- the odds aren't great. But if they put enough lines in the water, hopefully they can hook the big one. And then hope the big one is a player such as Jose Abreu or Yasiel Puig -- not a guppie masquerading in a talent suit.
Here is Gammon's take on the subjects:
There will be at least two dozen teams represented this weekend at the Giants’ complex in the Dominican Republic to see slugging Cuban outfielder Yasmani Tomas. "He’s a pure power guy, a really good hitter," says one international scouting director. The early favorites are the Giants, who were in hard on both Jose Abreu and Rusney Castillo, the Phillies, Padres, Rangers and the Tigers. But that can change, in a hurry.
To me, the key phrase was "in hard on both Jose Abreu and Rusney Castillo." The Giants are said to have finished a close second on Abreu, a lock for this year's AL Rookie of the Year. Of course, finishing 2nd is like kissing your ugly step-sister. Not much different from finishing 30th, except ... finishing 2nd shows a sincere effort. It is said that the Giants lost out on Abreu only because they offered only six years, not seven as the White Sox did.
The White Sox' thinking was that while Abreu might not be effective in the field that 7th contract year, he could become a designated hitter. Earlier if necessary. Being a National League team, the Giants had no such luxury.
Gammons tells us the Giants were in hard on Abreu and another top Cuban prospect. If they remain that competitive, eventually they'll win one of these auctions. Probably every time they finish 2nd or 3rd makes them hungrier for the next prospect. Let's hope that big fish they finally land makes a tasty meal.
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Post by rxmeister on Sept 20, 2014 6:45:06 GMT -5
For a team loaded with minor league pitching and having literally nothing in terms of minor league prospects, Yasmani Thomas makes perfect sense. And he's major league ready too. The kid they lost out on, Rusney Castillo, was signed last month and is already in the Red Sox lineup. I have a feeling they won't be outbid on Thomas.
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Post by Rog on Sept 20, 2014 9:24:53 GMT -5
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Post by Rog on Sept 20, 2014 9:45:47 GMT -5
If the Giants sign Thomas, I would think that would mean no Pablo Sandoval. Which might increase the chances of Buster's moving to the hot corner.
One thing about Sandoval that I forget from time to time and which would seem to keep down his price a bit is that at about $15 mill or so, the Giants can make a qualifying offer. That means the team signing Pablo would give the Giants a draft pick. Where the qualifying offer has been made, it has proven to be a significant retardant of salaries.
Here's a question we have discussed regarding American free agents which might also be a consideration for international free agents considering signing with the Giants. If the player feels he is young enough to have a chance to sign a later contract, might he want to sign where the park works more in his favor?
It's going to be tough to sign free agent position players of any kind without paying a premium. If the Giants are close in the Thomas race, perhaps they should go the extra million miles. Isn't Thomas a left fielder without a lot of range? Once again it might be questionable if the Giants should outbid an American League team which might add an extra year or two to the contract based on using the player later as a designated hitter.
One added hurdle too is that as more and more Cuban players have great success after coming over, the prices will almost certainly go higher and higher. Also, there is no guarantee these guys will be good. Heaven help the team that spends a ton only to find out the player isn't what they had hoped he would be.
Overall though, the Giants' scouting hasn't' been too bad. Jake Peavy would be just the latest example.
Aubrey Huff and Pat Burrell in 2010. Hunter Pence and Marco Scutaro in 2012. Peavy and Michael Morse this season.
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 20, 2014 10:49:33 GMT -5
Rog; You ask a good question and IF the hitter was choosing a "hitter favorable" park most of the time, I would agree; that is the deciding factor.
Only from my observations, it isn't, and I'll go so far to say that it rarely effects their choice at all.
What they SEE is $$$$$$$$$$$. Nothing more.
If I'M a player, and we're talking absurd millions, I CHOOSE based upon two things;
1-Which team is the most dedicated to winning? As in on which team do I have the best chance of getting to the World Series.
2-Where do I want to live.
3-What is ownership like. Have they continually shown a committment to doing what they have to at the trading deadline to win?
4-Does ownership respect and take care of their players to the best of their ability?
5-Is the manager a jackass (Bobby Valentine), someone I want to play for?
I mean, if I'm offered 25 million, or 35 million...yeah, it's 10 million apart, but so what! Can I EVER spend that much money in one year? No, I can't, I wouldn't, so why be STUPID and let my ego into the equation.
Now, how does this pertain to Pablo.
Let's say the White Sox, just to pick a team, or the Rangers, offer him Pence-like money.
The Giants offer 5 or 6 million less.
1-Do either of those teams have the winning track record of SF? No.
2-Do I really want to live in frickin' Chicago? Or Dallas? Um, NO! Been there, left there, no thanks.
Choosing as so many players do, based solely upon the money is so stupid it defies logic. It really does.
It's stupid to the power of eleventeen.
boly
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Post by rxmeister on Sept 20, 2014 13:16:16 GMT -5
Thomas will be holding a showcase for interested MLB teams tomorrow and guess what? It will take place at the Giants training complex in the Dominican Republic. I'm thinking they're interested!
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Post by Rog on Sept 20, 2014 14:38:01 GMT -5
I understand what you are saying that money not conditions attract player, Boly, and there may be other factors involved here, but have the Giants ever signed -- not re-signed -- a top hitter since they began playing at their present park?
In the draft, the Giants seem to be better at picking pitchers than position players. As I think about it, maybe that's not entirely true given Posey, Panik, Belt and Crawford. But I think it still does hold true, and certainly the Giants' farm system at the moment is filled with better pitching than everyday prospects.
What I would like to see though is that they become better at drafting, signing and developing hitters. When it comes to signing free agents, I think they have a better shot at pitchers than everyday players.
One could argue my reasoning based on their not really signing ANY free agents (with the possible exception of Tim Hudson, who was at least near the top). They may not have had enough money available to sign a top guy. On the other hand, they apparently offered big bucks to Jose Abreu and lost him to the White Sox because they were unwilling to offer him an extra year.
Based on how fabulously Jose has played this season, it appears the Giants would have fared well to have offered more money or more years, but there is a risk factor involved. I remember Boly's saying not too long ago that he wouldn't sign an international player because of that risk. I certainly wouldn't go nearly that far, but that element of risk should be factored in.
With the success of more and more international players, such players will be paid more in the future, increasing the risk further.
I have been saying that Buster's moving to third base might be contingent on the Giants' not re-signing Pablo, which I don't think they will. I hadn't really considered that the Giants might use Andrew Susac as a key piece in a package for another third baseman. The third base free agents are few and far between, but a trade might be available -- as the Giants executed for Angel Pagan and Melky Cabrera.
Hopefully there's a LOT of baseball before then, but with signings or positions of Pablo, Peavy, Buster and Belt at issue, there could be a lot of intrigue over the winter.
I realize few enjoy the winter as much as the season, but I enjoy the off-season better than most. It is the time when teams rebuild, replenish or refresh themselves, which makes it a time of hope and excitement.
I love the off season. It is then that the seeds for success can be sewn. The fields now go around the world.
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Post by Rog on Sept 20, 2014 14:40:07 GMT -5
When a player signs with a team for less than he was offered by another, the fans in the "jilted" city often accuse the player of disrespecting their team. That said, I agree with you here Boly.
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 20, 2014 17:05:32 GMT -5
You're right, Rog, they have not failed to do so. Ever hitter in recent memory we've wanted to, we've been able to keep.
And you're also right about there being other factors involved in the decision. I just mentioned what I think is THEIR driving force; money. They think of NOTHING else, I contend, the majority of the time.
But my point was not just about retaining Pablo. I just used him as an example of what I "hear" coming out of the mouths of these overpaid, cry babies.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. That's all most of them care about.
My point was, is and will be the same; 20 million for 5 years, or 40 million for 5 years. You can NEVER spend that much, those you leave behind can't spend that much, so why sign for just the money?
One word; ego.
To me, being happy where I am is much more important.
Who I'm playing with and for is much more important.
Having a perennial chance to WIN is more important.
That's my point.
boly
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