sfgdood
Long time member 
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Sept 18, 2014 11:30:50 GMT -5
Rog - If he's any kind of player at all, it would have been foolish NOT to bring him up. Wouldn't it?
Dood - which was MY argument last year but all you guys here said it was a bad idea to call him up, much less use him in any way since the invincible Juan Perez was already called up.
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Sept 18, 2014 11:33:16 GMT -5
my bad, btw...Bochy DID call up Ford but I do believe things work differently now. Or at least Bochy thinks differently for whatever reason on the subject of callus.
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Post by Rog on Sept 18, 2014 12:20:59 GMT -5
With the rosters expanded to 40, the Giants now have the flexibility to call up a player who has yet to hit in AAA but has excellent speed and defense.
He and Darren Ford have been used about the same amount -- even though Gary's September stint is only about 2/3rds through. Darren played in 7 games; Gary, 5. Darren didn't bat; Gary has batted twice. Darren played 2 innings in the field; Gary has played 8. Basically, Gary has played MORE than Darren -- with time left to increase the difference.
Darren was brought up almost exclusively because he had been an excellent base stealer in the minors. Three times he stolen 60 or more bases, and in none of those season had he been caught more than 16 times. The past three seasons, Gary has been successful only 64% of the time, which means his team would have been better off had he not attempted a single steal.
Ford was brought up as a "secret weapon," based on one extremely good skill (base stealing and base running). Gary can pinch run, but he's not the special base stealer Ford was.
Regarding Ford, he also saw a little time with the Giants the next season. He is best known for two particular plays:
. That September 1st game when he stole third and came in with the winning run on a bad throw.
. Next season when he scored from third base on a sharply hit ball to second baseman Neil Walker AFTER Walker nonchalantly threw to first base.
The Walker play was risky, but it worked spectacularly. On the steal of third, a good throw would have had him, which would have made it a poor play.
Ford wound up his major league career to date with 9 steals, but 6 caught stealings. He made a couple of very exciting base running plays, but his overall impact wasn't much, even though he did manage 4 hits in 14 at bats.
It might be noted that Ford hit for a slightly higher average this season at Fresno than Gary did. Darren missed the early part of the season due to injury. Gary played center field, not Darren, which is a testament to Gary's ability there. Gary has by far the stronger arm.
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Sept 18, 2014 14:26:38 GMT -5
Rog - With the rosters expanded to 40, the Giants now have the flexibility to call up a player who has yet to hit in AAA but has excellent speed and defense.
Dood - true, and I'm completely on board with this philosophy...but the Giants are not, at least not publicly. They have said over and over that a player has to EARN his way to being a September callup. I didn't get the idea that just being fast or being a good fielder would be enough. Otherwise, Brown would have been called up LAST September too.
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Post by rxmeister on Sept 19, 2014 8:32:29 GMT -5
They were out of it last September, Dood. Why call the guy up when their would be no meaningful pinch running or pinch hitting appearances?
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Post by Rog on Sept 19, 2014 8:33:17 GMT -5
VRog - With the rosters expanded to 40, the Giants now have the flexibility to call up a player who has yet to hit in AAA but has excellent speed and defense. Dood - true, and I'm completely on board with this philosophy...but the Giants are not, at least not publicly. They have said over and over that a player has to EARN his way to being a September callup. I didn't get the idea that just being fast or being a good fielder would be enough. Otherwise, Brown would have been called up LAST September too. Rog -- Glad for your partial agreement and glad you asked. (Well, actually you stated, but for inquisitive minds, that's like asking a question. When we actually ask a question ourselves, we question our sanity!) Looking at last year's roster, the Giants already had Andres Torres, Juan Perez and Francisco Peguero for speed and outfield defense. Usually when one looks, there is an answer. Then it becomes a question of how one views the answer. Knowing the answer though, gives one a much clearer picture to evaluate. Essentially, Peguero was last year's Brown, making Gary something of a redundancy. More importantly, Hunter Pence had yet to learn the bongos. You see how when you really dig, you get to the REAL reason! Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2457/why-brown?page=2#ixzz3DlfN5ZIc |
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
|
Post by sfgdood on Sept 23, 2014 1:42:26 GMT -5
well it's a mystery to me why they ever brought Brown up now. If you have a long extra inning affair in which there was lots of pinch running and hitting opportunities and a chance for a replacement fielder for Dominguez and Brown STILL cant see a sniff of action, then it aint NEVER gonna happen...in which case he's just wasting space on the bench and the team charter
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Post by rxmeister on Sept 23, 2014 9:54:05 GMT -5
I was surprised he didn't get in there somewhere last night in that long strange game. If there playoff spot is clinched before the final game, I'm sure he'll see some action. Did you guys see Hunter Strickland get that save last night? Unhittable! Have to get him on that post season roster somehow.
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 23, 2014 12:35:08 GMT -5
I was surprised, too, Mark.
Though I'm guessing they ONLY brought him up to give him a 'taste' of the Bigs to maybe inspire him to work harder.
I was thoroughly UNIMPRESSED with Domingez' defense last night, both on the flyballs he caught and his INABILITY to SET UP properly for the throw to the plate and then that piece of crap he heaved towards the stands.
I expect a AAA minor league outfielder to KNOW
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 23, 2014 12:36:49 GMT -5
Crap! Fat fingers hit the wrong key!!!
I expect a AAA minor league outfield to KNOW how to set up behind a lazy fly ball, and come INTO it on the move, set their feet, and make a strong throw.
He looked like a little leaguer setting up, then threw flat footed.
Not acceptable for a kid who's played AAA ball.
boly
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Sept 23, 2014 12:57:59 GMT -5
letting that ball get by him was awful too
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Sept 23, 2014 13:02:01 GMT -5
I never saw the point of bringing a guy up in September who you have no intention of using before things are clinched. It reminds me of that line in The Natural..."I'm gonna pay his salary, but I aint gonna play him...ever!"
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Post by donk33 on Sept 23, 2014 13:40:54 GMT -5
Crap! Fat fingers hit the wrong key!!! I expect a AAA minor league outfield to KNOW how to set up behind a lazy fly ball, and come INTO it on the move, set their feet, and make a strong throw. He looked like a little leaguer setting up, then threw flat footed. Not acceptable for a kid who's played AAA ball. boly dk...maybe the factor is that he has played mostly in the infield has something to do with his problem in the outfield...he started out as a 3Bman and, as it is the Giants way of screwing up a kid, he has moved between 3B and 1B with a few stops in between...and after 4 years the tried him in the outfield..then the following year they moved him back to the infield except for a few games in the outfield....this year they continued to move him all around the field....he has had his fielding problems, but he will never get any better if they don't keep him in one position.... in my opinion... |
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Post by Rog on Sept 23, 2014 18:41:52 GMT -5
Boly -- I was thoroughly UNIMPRESSED with Domingez' defense last night
Rog -- Chris has become a utility man, but he's really a third baseman (and not a particularly good one). The only thing that surprised me was his horrible throw after making a very strong one earlier in the game.
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 23, 2014 20:57:55 GMT -5
Boly -- I was thoroughly UNIMPRESSED with Domingez' defense last night
Rog -- Chris has become a utility man, but he's really a third baseman (and not a particularly good one). The only thing that surprised me was his horrible throw after making a very strong one earlier in the game.
---boly says---
A thirdbaseman? With his size? Wow! Not where I'd play him.
Still, he's PLAYED A LOT OF outfield, and his approach and foot work were terrible.
boly
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Post by Rog on Sept 24, 2014 21:03:01 GMT -5
Randy -- I never saw the point of bringing a guy up in September who you have no intention of using before things are clinched. Rog -- You don't think a young player can learn anything or get a feel of things even if he's simply sitting on the bench? As has been pointed out the Giants have already used Brown about as much as they used Ford. The primary difference is that Ford made things happen (although Darren was also put in positions to make more happen). Ford was a pinch running specialist. Brown can be one too, but he doesn't have anywhere near the base stealing ability Ford had. Gary is a fine pinch runner. Ford was a weapon. How much of your discussion here comes back to your seeing a fine career for Gary that now almost certainly materialize? I think it's easy to why you were so impressed, but Gary has plateaued. We all wish he hadn't -- especially now that Angel has gone down. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2457/why-brown?page=2#ixzz3EHwQvCTp |
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