Second base

[klaiggeb]

If you read the articles and listened to the interview, ya'all already know that Scutaro says he can't promise his 'balky back' is better, or that it won't flare up again.

For me, this is a huge, huge klaxon ringing, and it's one to which we should all listen.

Yeah we can plug another body in there, but the drop off is more than just a little bit when one looks at Marco's 'whole' game.

Noonan, according to reports, and Adrianza, are both ages better with the glove than Abreu (whom I think is darned near a butcher with the glove).

On the flip side, Abreu is much, much better at the plate than either of the other two.

Regardless of which of the 3 we turn to, there are going to be more than just a "few" holes in their game.

A bat or a glove, that's what it really comes down to.

I've been adament about Abrue. I don't care for him, and if I had to make the choice between the 3... I pick door number 4; As in someone else. I wish.

Which lead me to think IF we don't keep Abreu with Bochy keeping 106 pitchers, we really can't afford to PH for either Noonan or Adrianza.

And neither is worth a darned as a pinch hitter.

Further do we REALLY want to lose a game because Tony CLANK Abrue misplays, botches, or simply boots a routine ground ball as his history has shown he is prone to do?


Barring a trade, which I can't see us making, or a FA signing who's worth a darn, I'll take my chances with Adrianza.

On paper, we have a lot of bang in the line up, so we 'should' be able to have one lineup spot with a weak bat.

The Cardinals won world championships with Dal (me-no-know-how-to-hit) Maxvill at SS.

They did it with pitching, defense and "other" bats.

I think we can do the same.

boly

[sfgdood]

I don't know how much he's played 2b but Mark Teahen might be another option. I think he's mostly played 3b though.

[allenreed]

Arias?

[Rog]

Boly -- Barring a trade, which I can't see us making, or a FA signing who's worth a darn, I'll take my chances with Adrianza.

Rog -- Although I am with you in that I'm not too fond of Abreu (who just to make things even better, likely won't hit as well this season, either), I would keep him. Remember, the Giants' first line of backup defense (in the broad sense, not simpy fielding) is Joaquin Arias, who I think is at least an adequate utility infielder.

Thus, the fifth infielder would normally be used mostly to pinch hit or pinch run. None of the three is a great base runner, but Abreau has shown he can hit a little -- and is a switch hitter, keeping the bench more balanced as well. If one of the other infielders goes down, THEN the Giants can bring up Noonan or Adrianza (another switch hitter but not a very good one).

The Giants could keep one of the better fielders, but for whom would you bring them in for defense? Arias is OK in that role, and I don't think the regular infield defenders are exactly awful. Because of a decent glove and a decent bat, Arias is a good candidate for a double switch.

Boly -- On paper, we have a lot of bang in the line up, so we 'should' be able to have one lineup spot with a weak bat.

Rog -- I'm optimistic about the lineup because I'm optimistic about Sandoval, Belt and Morse. Still, it's far from a done deal that the Giants will hit.

Boly -- The Cardinals won world championships with Dal (me-no-know-how-to-hit) Maxvill at SS.

Rog -- They actually won one with Dal, in 1967. That season, even with Dal at short, they finished 2nd in the league in runs scored. Do you think the Giants would finish 2nd in the league in scoring with either Noonan or Adrianza in the lineup? The Cardinals also had the 2nd best ERA in the NL. Do you think the Giants will finished #2 in ERA this year? The Cardinals had four starters with ERA's of 3.01 or below, with a high of 3.53. Do you think the Giants will come close to matching that? (If they do, I like their chances.)

Boly -- They did it with pitching, defense and "other" bats.

Rog -- The Cardinals did have great pitching, and their other hitters were quite good that year. The defense is rated as solid but not spectacular.

Boly -- I think we can do the same.

Rog -- I think the Giants are capable of scoring the 2nd-most runs, of having the 2nd-best ERA and of matching the Cardinals' defense -- but I'm not sure they'll do any of the three. Last season they weren't even close.

In 2010, they clicked on the pitching and defense, but were merely average in scoring runs. In 2012, they fell a little short in each of the three categories.

In short, the Giants will likely be good enough to make the playoffs -- which means they could go all the way -- but they aren't likely to be nearly as good as the 1967 Cardinals, who were an excellent team, winning 101 games. In order for the Giants to win the World Series, they will almost certainly need to get hot at the right time, as they did in 2010 and 2012.

In those two seasons they showed that they could have enough this year to go all the way. But I doubt they will go into the postseason as the favorites, as the Cards did. The Giants have a shot -- but I would think as good as they likely will be, the odds would be seriously against them.

They have defied the odds before.


Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2192/second-base#ixzz2tp02PbeV

[Rog]

Randy -- I don't know how much he's played 2b but Mark Teahen might be another option. I think he's mostly played 3b though.

Rog -- Mark has been a decent hitter, but he's mostly played third base and the outfield. He hasn't been a very good fielder, either. His left-handed bat might play well, but he hasn't played since 2011 and made $5.5 million his last season. He played at St. Mary's College and wsa the 1st-round pick (39th overall) of the A's in 2002.

Teahen would be a nice gamble on a minor league contract, although I see that the Giants just signed him outright. I like the move. Low risk.

Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2192/second-base?page=1##ixzz2tpPHbA2n

[Rog]

Allen -- Arias?

Rog -- Yesias.

[klaiggeb]

Allen -- Arias?

Rog -- Yesias.

---boly says--- I didn't mention Arias because I flat out forgot.

Old people; can't live with us, can't shoot us.

yes! He would be a more than acceptable choice.

boly

[islandboagie]

Arias is a perfectly good backup, but if Scutaro goes on the DL and Arias starts, suddenly our best bat off the bench is Blanco.

Like I said months ago, I believe the Giants dropped the ball by not adding a solid bench player either in the outfield or infield.

[klaiggeb]

--Boagie says--- Arias is a perfectly good backup, but if Scutaro goes on the DL and Arias starts, suddenly our best bat off the bench is Blanco.

Like I said months ago, I believe the Giants dropped the ball by not adding a solid bench player either in the outfield or infield.

---boly says--Boagie, you were right, then, and you're still right now.

Then again, Arias "ain't" no big deal as a PH hitter, as far as I'm concerned.

boly

[allenreed]

Arias is a solid backup, and can start for awhile in a pinch. I think he's gotten insufficient credit here.

[sfgdood]

Personally I believe the best bat off the bench is Sanchez, and he's a far better hitter than our starting SS.

[Rog]

Randy -- Personally I believe the best bat off the bench is Sanchez, and he's a far better hitter than our starting SS.

Rog -- Good point about Sanchez's bat off the bench. I think that as with Arias, he was a little forgotten.

As for his being a far better hitter than Brandon Crawford, I'm not so sure. I don't consider either to be particularly good hitters, although Sanchez is younger and presumably has the greater upside.

Because Sanchez was out of shape early and Crawford suffered a hand injury late, they had predictable results early and late.

OPS-wise they were pretty close last season and have been pretty close over their careers. Both players hit .248 last season, and Crawford enjoyed a .674 to .649 advantage. Over their careers, Sanchez enjoys a .670 to .650 edge. Sanchez hits for a little more average and has a little more power.

Fan Graphs has three projections for each player at its sight. Sanchez's projections are ,689, .651 and .649. Crawford's are .677, .691 and .673. Crawford's are a touch higher, but basically they're each projected to be more or less the same below-average hitter.

Crawford is expected to strike out a little less often, while Sanchez is expected to have a higher Batting Average on Balls In Play.

Sanchez's 3.7% walk rate just kills him. He did get up to an awful-but-not-horribly awful 5.0% last season. Crawford has fairly consistently been aroun his 7.9% career rate. Crawford doesn't walk enough; Sanchez barely crawls.

At 22.7%, Sanchez has an impressive line drive rate. Crawford's 19.4% is just below average. Sanchez's line drive percengtage last season was a very impressive 27.1%, so perhaps he is on the verge of breaking out. His 4.1% infield fly ball percentage is also quite impressive. Those are the good signs.

On the negative side, his 14.5% swinging strike percentage is very bad for a guy with limited power. Crawford's 10.1% is more acceptable.

On balance, I think Sanchez does have the greater upside (although probably not enough to become a truly good hitter -- unless he can be more selective). But right now I think one could reasonably say Sanchez is the (slightly) better hitter, but certainly not the far better hitter.

What are you seeing that I'm missing, Randy?

Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2192/second-base##ixzz2tvG0yat6

[rxmeister]

Good points about Hacktor, Rog, and ones that got me in trouble around here last year! I guess the point that he hits better than most backup catchers is valid, but it's by comparison only, and he's NOT a good hitter. Put down that pizza, Hector, Susac is coming!

[Rog]

I am probably more optimistic about Susac than most analysts. He does swing and miss too much, but he also has good strike zone judgment, so his walks tend to balance out his strikeouts nicely.

At the moment, he's actually the Giants' only strong hitting prospect, although Mac Williamson, Joe Panik and Gary Brown are still noteworthy. I've seen a couple of scouting reports on Brown recently. If Randy can stomach it, perhaps I will try to copy them.

One thing to remember though is that the reports on Brown could turn around just about as fast as he can on the field if he can straighten out his stroke.

[rxmeister]

I just checked out SFG live at the mlb.com website and saw the answer to our second base problem in uniform and behind the batting cage. Jeff Kent!