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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 17, 2013 11:01:55 GMT -5
Don:
As the elder statesman on the board, you have a more unique perspective on my question than most.
I was thinking about players like Mel Ott, Willie Mays, and others.
Now I know Mel was not primarily a CF, but he did play there some, but... how would you compare HIS range in RF to say, Tommy Henrich?
I'm also curious about how you would compare Mays' range to that of Joe Dimaggio.
I've only seen film of Joe and Tommy and Mel, but likely, you got to see all of them.
Thanks!
boly
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Post by dk on Dec 17, 2013 15:14:47 GMT -5
Don: As the elder statesman on the board, you have a more unique perspective on my question than most. I was thinking about players like Mel Ott, Willie Mays, and others. Now I know Mel was not primarily a CF, but he did play there some, but... how would you compare HIS range in RF to say, Tommy Henrich? I'm also curious about how you would compare Mays' range to that of Joe Dimaggio. I've only seen film of Joe and Tommy and Mel, but likely, you got to see all of them. Thanks! boly dk....it is almost impossible to judge finitely the difference in the fielding abilities of ball players.....the guys you mentioned were all above average fielders. Were one better than the other was hard to objectively rate...Willie appeared to be faster than Joe, but Joe ran smoother than Willie and had great judgment on where the ball was headed...both played in mammoth center fields in NY....of course, I was highly biased with Mel Ott....my whole season pivoted around how Mel did in a game....I could take a team loss if Mel had a good game and a win was tainted if Mel didn't hit.....Mel was the top right fielder of his day....he was of average speed but he would get great jumps on balls...the greatest catch I have ever seen was the one Mel made against Dolph Cammilli of the Dodgers on Mel Ott Night....he went 440' into the Giants pen (pen was in fair grounds in the Polo Grounds) and made a twisting, leaping catch of a monster drive......I thought it was much more difficult than the famous Mays catch against Wertz in the WS....right fielders played similar in the Polo Grounds and the Phone Booth...short right fields that slanted out to a deep center field...fielders had to play off the line to protect "triples" alley....Polo Grounds was all concrete, no padding and no gates.....Mel would often play balls off the wall and hold them to singles because he knew how to play the carom and he had one of the top throwing arms in the game....he was also very good on line drives hit in front of him...his move was to make a pop-up slide to field the ball off the ground...his body would block the ball if he couldn't glove it...lost art now a days... I really don't know how to rate Tommy as a right fielder, all I know is the Yanks won a lot of flags with him out there.... |
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 17, 2013 15:48:56 GMT -5
Thanks, Don! You provided me an awful lot of insight! Even Willie said his catch on the Wertz fly wasn't that big of a deal. He claims the one he made against Furillo in RCF was much more difficult. I have never seen it, so I can't comment on it. But if WILLIE claims it was the most difficult...well, I think I'll take his word on it.  boly boly |
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Post by sharksrog on Dec 19, 2013 9:44:53 GMT -5
Willie has always said that he knew he had Wertz's ball all the way, that the spinning throw back to the infield was the best part of the play.
I'm not sure if the Furillo play in right-center was the play on which Willie made an even bigger spin and throw to nail Bobby Cox at the plate. I believe that throw would be considered among the greatest ever. From what I've read, no one had ever seen such a throw before, and Cox was stunned when the ball arrived at the plate.
As for Willie's greatest catch, I'm going to go with the one where he ran near the fence, turned, and caught the ball with his meat hand. Of that play, Branch Rickey said, "That was the greatest catch I ever saw and the greatest catch I ever hope to see."
Don't remember that this play was quite at that level of difficulty, but I do remember Willie catching a fly ball against the Dodgers in straightaway right field when Felipe lost the ball in the twilight. That had to be among his most heads-up plays.
I think my favorite was the game in which Willie nearly threw for the "cycle." He threw runners out at first, third and home, and missed recording an out at second base only because Tito Fuentes turned the wrong way to catch the runner's hook slide.
And of course there's Giants beat writer Bob Stevens' great description of a Mays triple. "The only guy who could have caught it, hit it."
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Post by allenreed on Dec 19, 2013 11:20:26 GMT -5
I'll go with the one he made vs. the Reds in right center where he went up over Bobby Bonds and pulled one back into the park, then came down and landed on Bobby. Can't remember the year.
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Post by sharksrog on Dec 19, 2013 17:02:15 GMT -5
That catch over Bobby Bonds was indeed a great, especially considering it came near the end of Willie's career. I'm guessing 1971 or 1972, but I'm not sure.
Around that time I talked to a guy who worked for my dad and was something of an adviser to both Garry Maddox and Gary Matthews. As such, he had been in the Giants' locker room and said that even at that age, Willie was still built like a prize fighter.
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Post by allenreed on Dec 19, 2013 18:34:29 GMT -5
I was thinking 71. But I'm not sure.
Yeah. I was watching some special on TV and they showed some film of Willie with his shirt off, and this was when he was older. He was just ripped. I also heard he paid to have a crease put in his baseball pants.
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Post by allenreed on Dec 19, 2013 18:36:06 GMT -5
Speaking of which, I saw a show on Bo Jackson the other night, and Bo said he never lifted a weight in his life. That's hard to believe.
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Post by sharksrog on Dec 19, 2013 18:38:30 GMT -5
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Post by allenreed on Dec 19, 2013 19:07:34 GMT -5
Willie was pretty ripped, but Bo was in a whole different league. Hard to believe that body came naturally. Bo can also shoot a bow with his feet and consistently hit the bullseye.
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Post by sharksrog on Dec 20, 2013 12:34:22 GMT -5
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