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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 12, 2013 16:32:12 GMT -5
At first I was simply pleased that we signed Morse.
But the more I thought about it, the more I realized that IF...IF... he's truly healthy, we can now throw out a deep, deep lineup on an everyday basis.
I know Bochy is locked into Scutaro in the 2 hole, but here's what I would do. (as I said IF Morse is healthy.
Pagan-CF Belt-1B Pence-RF Posey-C Pablo-3B Morse-Lf Scutaro Crawford
That's power (20+ potential) 2-6.
I DON'T want either Pablo NOR Posey 3 hole because they simply don't run well enough.
Pence has PROVEN his ability to drive in runs.
Darned near 100 last year from mostly the 6th spot.
Pretty darned good.
boly
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Post by rxmeister on Dec 13, 2013 0:03:48 GMT -5
Bochy has already said that Brandon Belt will hit in the third spot next year, so while he won't be where you want him, Boly, they will have someone who runs fairly well in the third spot. I'm sure he'll hit Scutaro second though, we know that's what he likes. I see Pagan, Scutaro, Belt, Posey, Pence, Panda, Morse and Crawford.
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Post by sharksrog on Dec 13, 2013 3:00:10 GMT -5
I know Bochy is locked into Scutaro in the 2 hole, but here's what I would do. (as I said IF Morse is healthy. Pagan-CF Belt-1B Pence-RF Posey-C Pablo-3B Morse-Lf Scutaro Crawford Rog -- I like it, Boly. That's what I would do too. I'm not sure you agreed with me at the time, but I heralded Brandon as the #2 hitter last season. He hits into very few double plays, gets on base, and can run the bases a bit. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=2139#ixzz2nL7P3EZJ
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Post by sharksrog on Dec 13, 2013 3:06:17 GMT -5
Mark -- Bochy has already said that Brandon Belt will hit in the third spot next year, so while he won't be where you want him, Boly, they will have someone who runs fairly well in the third spot. I'm sure he'll hit Scutaro second though, we know that's what he likes. I see Pagan, Scutaro, Belt, Posey, Pence, Panda, Morse and Crawford. Rog -- I didn't know Bruce had committed to Brandon's batting #3, but that is where I projected him to land eventually when he first came up. I like Boly's order better though, even though you are almost certainly right about how the order will go. The #2 hitter should be one of the top hitters on the team, and although he's been a good hitter, Marco isn't THAT good. With Belt, Pence, Buster and Pablo, the Giants would have a pretty good 2 through 5 in the order. Belt's batting third does spread the handed hitters out better though. That would mean SW, R, L, R, R, SW, R, and L. I suspect the Giants will see a lot of right-handed relief pitching late in games. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=2139#ixzz2nL8Iwh6i
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Post by rxmeister on Dec 13, 2013 8:58:34 GMT -5
That would sure be the opposite of 2012 though, where he would bat Belt , Blanco and Crawford back to back and make it easier for lefty relievers. I prefer seeing the righties, especially because as Boly pointed out, Morse hits them equally well, and Pablo certainly hits better from the left side. Plus, in general righties hit righties better than lefties hit lefties.
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 13, 2013 10:48:35 GMT -5
Bochy has already said that Brandon Belt will hit in the third spot next year, so while he won't be where you want him, Boly, they will have someone who runs fairly well in the third spot. I'm sure he'll hit Scutaro second though, we know that's what he likes. I see Pagan, Scutaro, Belt, Posey, Pence, Panda, Morse and Crawford.
Re---boly says---
Huh. I hadn't read that, Mark.
When/were did Bochy say this?
I can actually live it.
Brandon has a good eye (OBP), and last year, displayed a knack for driving in runs, and he can run some.
Still like my line up better, but that's not bad.
boly
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 13, 2013 10:51:40 GMT -5
Rog -- I like it, Boly. That's what I would do too. I'm not sure you agreed with me at the time, but I heralded Brandon as the #2 hitter last season. He hits into very few double plays, gets on base, and can run the bases a bit ---boly says--- You did. But early on, we hadn't seen how Brandon would develop. When he finally adjusted, and maintained that, he proved to me, at least, that he was deserving of that spot. It's important you understand what a CHANGE this reflects in me, Rog. I have ALWAYS wanted a Glen Beckert kind of guy in the 2 hole. And Scutaro is that. So, to go away from that concept, for me, (often called Monk's brother) that's an earth shattering shift. boly
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Post by sharksrog on Dec 13, 2013 11:35:39 GMT -5
I think it is in part a result of increased sabermetric understanding, but #2 hitters have undergone a significant evolution. Indeed it used to be the Beckert/Scutaro (bat control) guys who hit second. If we look around the league though, the #2 hitters have become pretty good hitters.
Just one of many examples, but Carlos Beltran may have been the best #2 hitter last season. Usually one would have expected him to hit 3rd or 5th. Even 4th.
I don't remember the other names, but there are a lot of good hitters batting 2nd these days. As a high OBP guy, Belt fits the mode. And in his case, he's GREAT at avoiding double plays. Not the kind of guy for a hit-and-run though. But perhaps the hit-and-run play is better down in the order where a team has to scramble for runs.
More and more I'm thinking that it makes sense to play long ball with the early and heart portions of the order while playing more small ball on the back end. One thing I do think is underrated at the bottom of the order though is the ability to avoid having the pitcher lead off an inning. That can go against taking risk on the bases to scramble for runs.
If we look at how lineups score runs, on most teams very little happens after the #6 hitter. In a way, one could say the primary job of the bottom of the order it to get back to the top.
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 13, 2013 15:50:26 GMT -5
Just one of many examples, but Carlos Beltran may have been the best #2 hitter last season.
---boly says----
Totally understand.
But for ME to conceed that spot... Wow! I mean, I'm the guy who thinks, says and believes that "change is evil," well, that's rare.
boly
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Post by rxmeister on Dec 14, 2013 8:15:50 GMT -5
Unfortunately Bruce Bochy is one of those dinosaurs who thinks the number two spot is for a "bat handler" type who can bunt, hit and run, take pitches etc, and he's not changing his mind. Scutaro will hit second.
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 14, 2013 11:13:09 GMT -5
Unfortunately Bruce Bochy is one of those dinosaurs who thinks the number two spot is for a "bat handler" type who can bunt, hit and run, take pitches etc, and he's not changing his mind. Scutaro will hit second.
---boly says---
Agreed, Mark. That's pretty much what I posted.
boly
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Dec 14, 2013 12:03:13 GMT -5
yep, a dinosaur whose methods have brought us our two world titles in SF.
In Bruce I trust.
~Dood
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Post by sharksrog on Dec 14, 2013 13:02:02 GMT -5
Rog -- Just one of many examples, but Carlos Beltran may have been the best #2 hitter last season. ---boly says---- Totally understand. But for ME to conceed that spot... Wow! I mean, I'm the guy who thinks, says and believes that "change is evil," well, that's rare. Rog -- And don't think I don't appreciate that you have changed your mind here, Boly. My fiancee, who you have of course met, doesn't like change much either. I hypnotized her into thinking I had been there all along. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=2139&page=1#17698#ixzz2nTPgXLNy
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Post by sharksrog on Dec 14, 2013 13:37:38 GMT -5
Randy -- yep, a dinosaur whose methods have brought us our two world titles in SF. In Bruce I trust. Rog -- And you should. As one of the first here to believe that Bochy WASN'T an idiot, I trust a lot in Bruce too. But that doesn't mean he never makes a mistake. Batting Marco 2nd in 2012 when he was red hot was actually a GOOD idea. Batting him 2nd this coming year when he is projected to have about a .335 OBP and a .700 OPS likely isn't. I had a discussion with a very good friend of mine yesterday about the productive outs made by a hitter such as Freddy Sanchez. In 2006 Freddy led the NL with a .344 average and would have made a WONDERFUL hitter. In fact, he hit so well he made a good #3 hitter, which is where he batted that season. But the rest of his career he batted mostly 2nd and was just a so-so hitter. As a #2 hitter, he had a career .320 OBP and .711 OPS. Did he make enough productive outs to make him a good #2 hitter? That's a hard argument to make. The point I made to my friend is that even fast runners were seldom able to take the extra base on Freddy's hits. He didn't hit the ball particularly hard, and defenses were able to play him shallow. Now, let's say Freddy and another hitter both come up in the same two situations. The first is runner on second with no outs. The second is runner on first with no outs. Freddy, being a good productive outs guy, gets that first runner over to third, making it a one-out, runner on third situation. In the second situation, he gets a hit -- but the runner on first is unable to advance to third and holds second instead. Now, hitter #2, hits the ball harder than Freddy, but he isn't as good at making productive outs. Maybe he strikes out a lot. Hitter #2 is unable to advance the runner to third with one out, leaving his team with a runner on second and one out. In the next situation (runner on first, one out), he IS able to allow the runner to take the extra base on his hit, leaving runners on first and third with one out. In Freddy's case, he is considered a hero. After all, he was successful not once, but TWICE. The other guy is considered to have done a good job, getting a single in two at bats, but after all, he DID fail to get the runner over to third, so clearly he didn't do as well as Freddy. Yet if we look at the result of the two plays, with each batter, we have a result of two one-out situations with a combined total of three runners on. And in each case, one runner is on first, one is on second, and one is on third. Think about it. Both hitters did their job, but Freddy did it TWICE. Yet the results of the two hitters (if not the resulting situations) were identical. A contact hitter like Sanchez is considered a prototypical #2 hitter. Without even considering that he doesn't get on as often as a guy like Belt or hit with as much power, he usually doesn't advance runners as far on HITS as a guy like Belt does. I looked at Freddy's results the season he joined the Giants, and time after time he was unable to allow even the very fast leadoff hitters batting ahead of him to take the extra base on his hits. I looked at Albert Pujols, and even the somewhat slower runners ahead of him were able to take the extra base a LOT of the time. When we look at the productive outs a player makes, we often ignore or don't give enough credence to the number of bases he advances runners with hits and walks. It's usually sub-par. And it is why a hitter such as Belt, who gets on base well, hits for power, and hits into very few double plays, can make a better #2 hitter than a guy like Scutaro -- even though there is no question which hitter has the better bat control. As I told my friend, I'd much rather a hitter make a productive out than a non-productive one. But give me the guy who gets on base and DOESN'T make an out. I can excuse the latter quite often when he doesn't make a productive out, since he gives me better all-around productivity. Demonstrated lineup theory shows that a team's best hitter should bat 2nd, 3rd or 4th. Clearly the #2 spot in the order deserves more than a contact guy. And I'm proud of Boly for moving dinousaur after dinousaur in order to come around to it. Maybe someday, Don and I will get others to agree the pitcher shouldn't always hit 9th. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=2139&page=1#ixzz2nTQGHuSM
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Post by sharksrog on Dec 14, 2013 13:38:55 GMT -5
Boly -- for me, (often called Monk's brother) Rog -- Someone once told me that you have forgotten more than Monk ever knew.
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Post by sharksrog on Dec 14, 2013 14:19:15 GMT -5
Boly -- Pence has PROVEN his ability to drive in runs. Darned near 100 last year from mostly the 6th spot. Rog -- No question Hunter is a good RBI man. But I do think he's a bit overrated in that regard. First, a minor correction. I think you meant mostly the 5th spot, not the 6th spot. More importantly, Hunter had as many RBI's as he had in great part to having lots of runners on base ahead of him. In 2012, he drove in 104 runs with 505 runners on base. The average number of RBI's with that many runners on base was 92. Last season he drove in 99 tallies. The average number of RBI's with that many on base was 82. So Hunter is clearly an above-average RBI man. But let's see how he compares to Miguel Cabrera. Last season Miguel drove home 137 runs with 448 runners on base. With 485 on as Hunter had, Miguel would have driven home about 148 runs. Hunter was above average in RBI productivity last season, but he was about three times closer (99 vs. 82) to average than he was to Cabrera (99 vs. 148). Hunter is clealry above average, but if you expect him to drive in 100 runs, you'd better put a lot of runners on for him. I don't think Hunter is overrated a lot when it comes to RBI's, but I do think he's a bit overrated. That said, he's about as good as anyone the Giants have. They have some pretty good RBI guys, but no great ones. Incidentally, Cabrera had 137 RBI's in 652 plate appearances last season. The was more than double the average of 67 RBI's by players with that many. Given that Miguel had 59 walks with runners on, 44 of those coming with runners in scoring position, that's pretty darn impressive and why Miguel is considered one of the best right-handed hitters of all time. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=2139&page=1#ixzz2nTZiUWkT
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 14, 2013 18:29:52 GMT -5
No question Hunter is a good RBI man. But I do think he's a bit overrated in that regard.
First, a minor correction. I think you meant mostly the 5th spot, not the 6th spot.
---boly says---
Yeah... I meant 5th Rog. Fat fingers, old brain.
Hunter is NOT my ideal 3 hole guy.
I just do NOT want base cloggers like Posey or Pablo hitting there.
I want some guys that can run, at the top 3, then some run producers.
Hunter hits 3, and not only will he drive in 90+, but he'll steal some bases and, even more importantly GO from 1st to 3rd on most singles.
Posey and Pablo cannot do that with the same regularity.
boly
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Post by sharksrog on Dec 14, 2013 19:10:23 GMT -5
Boly -- Hunter hits 3, and not only will he drive in 90+, but he'll steal some bases and, even more importantly GO from 1st to 3rd on most singles. Rog -- I don't know where to find this now, and I agree that Hunter will go from 1st to 3rd on most singles, but I'll bet Hunter doesn't go from 1st to 3rd much more often than he doesn't. It is surprising how runners aren't able to do so much more than they have to hold or are thrown out. IIRC runners do considerably better at scoring from 2nd on a single and maybe also do so in scoring from first base on a double. But I don't think the percentage of times a runner advances the extra base in those three situations combined is nearly as high as one thinks. Even among the better base runners. Actually, I'm wrong about Pence. He almost certainly WON'T go from first to third most of the time on singles. He did so only 10 out of 40 chances last season and is only 67 for 230 in his career. In today's game with strong arms and swifter outfielders charging the ball, it's darn HARD to go from first to third on a single. When we talk about Buster Posey, we think of a much worse base runner than Pence. Yet last season Buster's 7 times going to third in 31 attempts wasn't all far off Hunter's 10 out of 40. If you want a great base runner, take Mike Trout. Mike went from first to third 27 times out of 44, scored from second on a single 15 times out of 20 and scored from first 5 times out of 14 on a double. Back to Pence and Posey, Buster took only nine fewer bases than Hunter -- and had four fewer opportunities. Unless a guy is Mike Trout -- who advanced 47 times out of 78 opportunities last season -- there isn't usually a huge difference unless a guy gets thrown out a lot. Anyway, I've got to reverse myself and say there is almost no chance that Hunter will go from first to third most of the time. And those nine extra bases Hunter took likely represented only about three extra runs. As I look at the situation, taking extra bases is probably overrated. And getting caught trying to do so is probably UNDERrated as a negative. I don't know that Allen Craig is considered to be a horrible base runner, but he tied with Ryan Doumit for the major league lead in being thrown out 8 (!) times trying to advance on hits. He was successful 31 times in 86 chances. I personally think most base runners should be more aggressive in taking the extra base. But I might make an exception for Craig. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=2139&page=1#17747#ixzz2nUmJYyph
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Post by sharksrog on Dec 14, 2013 19:11:22 GMT -5
Boly -- Hunter hits 3, and not only will he drive in 90+, but he'll steal some bases and, even more importantly GO from 1st to 3rd on most singles. Rog -- I don't know where to find this now, and I agree that Hunter will go from 1st to 3rd on most singles, but I'll bet Hunter doesn't go from 1st to 3rd much more often than he doesn't. It is surprising how runners aren't able to do so much more than they have to hold or are thrown out. IIRC runners do considerably better at scoring from 2nd on a single and maybe also do so in scoring from first base on a double. But I don't think the percentage of times a runner advances the extra base in those three situations combined is nearly as high as one thinks. Even among the better base runners. Actually, I'm wrong about Pence. He almost certainly WON'T go from first to third most of the time on singles. He did so only 10 out of 40 chances last season and is only 67 for 230 in his career. In today's game with strong arms and swifter outfielders charging the ball, it's darn HARD to go from first to third on a single. When we talk about Buster Posey, we think of a much worse base runner than Pence. Yet last season Buster's 7 times going to third in 31 attempts wasn't all far off Hunter's 10 out of 40. If you want a great base runner, take Mike Trout. Mike went from first to third 27 times out of 44, scored from second on a single 15 times out of 20 and scored from first 5 times out of 14 on a double. Back to Pence and Posey, Buster took only nine fewer bases than Hunter -- and had four fewer opportunities. Unless a guy is Mike Trout -- who advanced 47 times out of 78 opportunities last season -- there isn't usually a huge difference unless a guy gets thrown out a lot. Anyway, I've got to reverse myself and say there is almost no chance that Hunter will go from first to third most of the time. And those nine extra bases Hunter took likely represented only about three extra runs. As I look at the situation, taking extra bases is probably overrated. And getting caught trying to do so is probably UNDERrated as a negative. I don't know that Allen Craig is considered to be a horrible base runner, but he tied with Ryan Doumit for the major league lead in being thrown out 8 (!) times trying to advance on hits. He was successful 31 times in 86 chances. I personally think most base runners should be more aggressive in taking the extra base. But I might make an exception for Craig. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=2139&page=1#17747#ixzz2nUmJYyph
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Post by sharksrog on Dec 14, 2013 19:12:34 GMT -5
Sorry about double posting there. My fingers weren't confused, but my brain was.
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 15, 2013 10:20:46 GMT -5
Rog -- I don't know where to find this now, and I agree that Hunter will go from 1st to 3rd on most singles, but I'll bet Hunter doesn't go from 1st to 3rd much more often than he doesn't. It is surprising how runners aren't able to do so much more than they have to hold or are thrown out. ---boly says--- Rog, that's a moot point. My point is that he goes 1st to 3rd a LOT for often than Posey or the baseball player formerly known as FATSO. boly
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Post by Islandboagie on Dec 15, 2013 12:05:22 GMT -5
Boly- I know Bochy is locked into Scutaro in the 2 hole, but here's what I would do. (as I said IF Morse is healthy.
Pagan-CF Belt-1B Pence-RF Posey-C Pablo-3B Morse-Lf Scutaro Crawford
Boagie- A few points about your lineup, Boly.
1. You have Posey with the best OBP batting after Pence who has one of the worst OBP and the most raw power. I see that speed wise that makes sense, but in every other way i see it as a bad idea.
2. You have Scutaro batting 7th when he has one of the best OBP.
That's all I see wrong with your lineup, but those are two pretty serious flaws, enough that it's a deal breaker for me.
I think what we saw at the end of last year makes more sense. The only thing that bothers me about Bochy's projected lineup is Pagan leading off with a lower OBP than a leadoff hitter should have.
I like Pagan, he certainly has value in the lineup, I'm just not sure leading off is his best spot. If it were up to me I might just have Belt leadoff, Pablo bat 3rd and move Pagan to the 6th spot. This adjustment would do a few things. First, it would put the top 4 obp guys batting 1-4 (Belt, Scutaro, Sandoval, Posey.) Secondly, it would setup good speed on the bases for the bottom of the lineup to generate some runs with small ball. I see this as the best lineup for big innings and also turning the lineup over more frequently throughout games.
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Post by sharksrog on Dec 15, 2013 12:32:38 GMT -5
Boly -- My point is that he goes 1st to 3rd a LOT for often than Posey or the baseball player formerly known as FATSO. Rog -- And you are clearly correct. Hunter in slow motion might be faster than Buster in particular. My point is that it doesn't seem to make nearly as much difference as we think. I myself was very wrong about Hunter's ability to go from first to third, which he did only 25% of the time last season and only about 30% of the time over his career. We get frustrated when a slow runner such as Buster isn't able to go to third and tend to say he's station-to-station without realizing even many FAST runners are station to station more often than not. And even Buster made it 23% of the time compared to Hunter's 25%. Clearly Hunter is a better base runner than Buster. But last season when it came to taking the extra base on his, it didn't matter all that much. It mattered. But in reality, it made surprisingly little difference given the huge disparity in the two players' speed. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=2139&page=1#17762#ixzz2nZ7onwFF
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Post by sharksrog on Dec 15, 2013 12:43:58 GMT -5
Boagie -- 1. You have Posey with the best OBP batting after Pence who has one of the worst OBP and the most raw power. I see that speed wise that makes sense, but in every other way i see it as a bad idea. Rog -- After looking at how little difference speed seems to make as far as taking the extra base on hits, I'm inclined to agree. One thing that Hunter did add last season though was the ability to steal a base very efficiently. He stole 22 out of 25 bases, which is exceptional. I doubt very much he'll be able to repeat it though. In order to mix up the handed-ness of the order, I would even be tempted to go Pagan, Belt, Posey, SANDOVAL, Pence and Morse, although with Scutaro's batting 7th, that would place three straight right-handed hitters in the order. I believe Bochy has stated he'll mix them up a bit depending on who's hitting. I think that is probably the best approach. If Scutaro can hit close to the way he hit for the Giants in 2012, I wouldn't have a problem with his batting 2nd. As for Pence, he's probably best suited to batting #5 or #6. Belt could make a decent #3 hitter, at least when he's hot. Sandoval at his best is a #3 - #5 hitter, but at his worst, he's a #7 hitter. Posey has been OK as a cleanup hitter, but he is likely best suited to #3 (speed aside). If one wanted to really revolutionize the order, he could lead off with Belt. I don't think I would do that, primarily because I think Brandon will be too GOOD a hitter to lead off. Might be a good spot for him when he's slumping though. He can still get on base. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=2139&page=1#ixzz2nZ9df2Nu
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Post by dk on Dec 15, 2013 17:36:49 GMT -5
does anyone look at Posey's second half last year and continues to place him in a power position of the lineup????He has 2 or 7 numbers...and because of his lack of foot speed, probably should hit 7th...until he shows a return of some power.....and for all those that questioned my commenting on Posey's poor conditioning, he admitted as much and is supposed to be training harder this winter...and despite all the stats rolled out on this board, Scutaro remains the best 2 hitter on the team....if Pagan leads off and returns to a running game...the best stat for a 2 hitter is how productive he is on a 2 strike pitch, if he has a base stealer ahead of him in the order.....and the second key is the ability to hit to all fields....that is Scutaro's game....
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Dec 15, 2013 22:23:52 GMT -5
FYI, dk. Posey won the MVP in 2012...is your memory that short term nowadays or are you simply that desperate to get someone to agree with you about him finally?
Pathetic.
~Dood
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 16, 2013 11:21:17 GMT -5
My point is that it doesn't seem to make nearly as much difference as we think. I myself was very wrong about Hunter's ability to go from first to third, which he did only 25% of the time last season and only about 30% of the time over his career.
---boly says---
Rog, THIS is where I take issue with a statistical analysis. The numbers show a % that doesn't seem too hight, BUT... and it's a huge BUT... in a critical situation, late in a game when you absoltuely MUST get the runner to 3B, a guy like Pence has a much much HIGHER % chance to get to third that P or P.
With the game on the line, the stats go out the proverbial window, and that makes all the difference in the world.
boly
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Post by dk on Dec 16, 2013 12:05:29 GMT -5
FYI, dk. Posey won the MVP in 2012...is your memory that short term nowadays or are you simply that desperate to get someone to agree with you about him finally? Pathetic. ~Dood dk..doodoo, you continue to show your bias as well as your lack of knowledge about the game...Posey had a terrible second half of the season in 2012 and it continued in 2013 second half...hardly stats for a MVP ...maybe his new training plan will help, but the one thing that could help him is to switch to being a first baseman.....in case Rog hasn't showed it, Posey has sunk down even farther in the catcher's ratings in Bill James book ...and I think he is still too high on the list at 7th(?)....but then, most of the guys doing the rating has the same kind of bias as doodoo....
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Dec 16, 2013 12:23:22 GMT -5
Ok, so let me get this straight...in 2012, Posey had an OPS of
1.043 in July 1.143 in August 1.024 in September
Buster's post all star break OPS was 1.102.
Your standards must be pretty damn lofty if those credentials seem "terrible" to you. Most would say they qualify as MVP caliber, without question.
~Dood
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Dec 16, 2013 12:35:32 GMT -5
Oh and btw...I can understand those ratings services giving Buster a low rating after his subpar 2013. But at least they wouldn't say something idiotic like Buster was "terrible" in the second half of 2012 when he clearly was the MOST dominant catcher in the game.
What was that you were saying about "bias" old man?
~Dood
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