Timmy wins Gibby

[sfgdood]

Tim Lincecum has won the Greatness in Baseball (Gibby) award for the top pitching performance of the year, namely his no-hitter against the Padres.

~Dood

[allenreed]

Seriously? I didn't even know there was such a thing. I might of went with Kershaw's opening day performance against the Giants.

[rxmeister]

No doubt about it, Allen. How could they possibly award that to a guy who pitched a no hitter, struck out 13 and threw 148 pitches? Pitchers do that every day! Clayton Kershaw should have won for a nine inning shut out where he gave up four hits and struck out seven! Way better!!!!

[allenreed]

He walked four, hit a batter, and threw 148 pitches. Hardly dominant. Kershaw not only shut out the Giants, but hit a home run.

[sfgdood]

Come on Allen, you are sounding petty and ridiculous here. A 13 k no hitter is dominant no matter how you slice it. Kershaw's HR has no bearing on the pitching performance. Both were impressive but Kershaw got beat 4 times and Lincecum none in 9 innings. Only a Dodger fan or someone with a severe axe to grind would say Kershaw had a better pitching performance.

~Dood

[allenreed]

I think when you slice it with four walks, a hit batter and almost 150 pitches, that's not so dominant. Homer Bailey's no-no against the Giants was more dominant than Timmy's. Was Rog on the panel that voted on this award?

[rxmeister]

If it makes you feel better, Allen, Kershaw won the Gibby for NL pitcher of the year, which is certainly better than a one game award. I know you're not a Dodger fan, Allen, but you must have a severe dislike for Timmy to say that Kershaw performance was better. It's not even close, and Randy is right, the HR he hit was irrelevant. The award is based on pitching only. You certainly could make a case for Homer Bailey though. I think Timmy was better though because of the 13 strikeouts (Bailey had 9) and the fact that in this day and age, he threw the unheard of total of 148 pitches.

[klaiggeb]

If it makes you feel better, Allen, Kershaw won the Gibby for NL pitcher of the year, which is certainly better than a one game award. I know you're not a Dodger fan, Allen, but you must have a severe dislike for Timmy to say that Kershaw performance was better. It's not even close, and Randy is right, the HR he hit was irrelevant. The award is based on pitching only. You certainly could make a case for Homer Bailey though. I think Timmy was better though because of the 13 strikeouts (Bailey had 9) and the fact that in this day and age, he threw the unheard of total of 148 pitches.

---boly says---

Having thrown 2 no hitters in my career(?), I think that choosing 'which one was more dominant,' or 'which one was better,' is actually kind of a senseless question.

Throwing one in ANY shape or form is bloody hard!

And that doesn't even consider the 'luck' factor that must occur.

Was Don Larsen's perfect game the BEST perfect game every thrown simply because it came in a World Series?

Whose no hitter was better, Lincecum's or Sanchez's?

To me, not really worth discussing. Nit picking, some would argue.

boly

[Islandboagie]

I think the number of pitches makes it even more impressive. Obviously Allen's opinion on this topic is fueled by his hatred for Lincecum. I think if there was one true contender for a better pitching performance than Lincecum's it would be Petitte's almost perfect game.

[allenreed]

No, I actually like Timmy. he seems like a nice enough guy. I just thought Kershaw's (and Bailey's)performances were superior. I remember thinking during Timmy;s game that the Pads would eventally break trough, or that Timmy would eventually walk himself into trouble. In the other two games, I remember thinking that the Giants never had much of a chance.

[sfgdood]

I threw a 7 inning no-no in Pony League. Believe me it gets pretty difficult after a while because no matter how much you want to forget it, it's up there on that scoreboard for all to see and it wears on you. The walks for Tim came mostly early in the game and I remember thinking in about the 4th or 5th inning that he would have to throw 195 pitches just to finish the game much less complete the no-hitter. I walked 7 myself (and k'd 9), mostly out of pressure of not wanting to lose the no-hitter. I can tell you after talking to the other team some time after, they felt pretty dominated. I felt worn out but pretty stoked. They didnt keep a pitch count back then but I figure I threw about 120.

I agree with Boagie and Rx that the number of pitches makes it more impressive because in those last few innings you're fighting back fatigue AND pressure. Tim was darn near masterful in the 7th 8th and 9th even with all the pitches thrown. That's pretty freakin impressive. You can argue that other performances were better, but Tim was literally unhittable that night and that's nothing to sneeze at.

~Dood

[allenreed]

I pitched one in Babe Ruth when I was 15. No walks, but I hit three batters in a row at one point, five total for the game. Parents for the other team wanted me tossed. I had spent the day water skiing and had a massive sunburn.
The fact that Tim threw so many pitches doesn't indicate dominance to me. It indicates that he was struggling with control problems.

[sharksrog]

A few comments here:

First, Randy's estimate of 120 pitches in his 7-walk, 9-strikeout no-hitter seems an enlightened to me. Quite reasonable given the facts he has given us. I suspect Randy has thought about this quite a lot, and I think his estimate is quite good.

Second, things were well set up for Tim's excellent game. He had been pitching better than most realized, the Padres aren't a great-hitting team, and Tim has long pitched well against them. One of the biggest games of his career came on June 25, 2007, when he was pitching for his starting rotation life. Just as Jonathan Sanchez was when Jonathan pitched his no-hitter.

Third, I thought both Sanchez's game and Petit's were better than Tim's. The big difference between Petit's and Tim's was that Petit's line drive to right just fell in, while Hunter Pence made one of the best plays of the Giants' season on Tim's.

Tim is immensely popular, and in a twisted way, perhaps made even more so by his struggles these past two seasons. It isn't surprising he won the award. But I have to admit -- and everyone knows what a great fan of Tim I am -- that Petit pitched better. Petit was masterful, particularly for a guy who has struggled in his career just to stay in the major leagues.

Over at the McCovey Chronicles I once wrote that I felt Matt Cain had a better chance of throwing a no-hitter than Tim. A guy asked me why, and I almost couldn't explain it. I posted something lame like batters always seemed to get some kind of cheap hit off Tim, even when he pitched dominantly. What I now realize is that Tim's command was lacking, giving a strong possibility that no matter how many he struck out, a bad pitch could easily become a hit.

Of course, both Matt and Tim have now pitched no-hitters. They have both been excellent pitchers over their careers, but many no-hitters (and the near-perfect, one hitter by Petit) have been thrown by far lesser pitchers. As the line drives to right in Tim's and Yusmeiro's games showed, part of a no-hitter is almost always luck.

I'm quite happy for Tim that he won the award. But I have to say, I thought Petit pitched a petit amount better.

I too was worried about Tim's pitches, and as much as I hate to admit it, I would have taken him out after seven. Although in college he threw more than 148 pitches several times, I can't imagine it did his arm any good to do so again. In college, he was often pitching on five or six days' rest.

I can't say whether it was because of the 148 pitches in the no-hitter, but Tim did give up a career-high 8 earned runs his next start.

On a personal note that is far less impressive than Randy's no-hitter or Boly's two, I umpired two no-hitters. One was a high school game, and the other a semi-pro game. One of the pitchers went on to become a minor leaguer, making it as high as AAA and posting a career 3.44 ERA.

In neither of the two no-hitters did I realize a no-hitter had been pitched until after the game. When I was behind the plate, it was all about balls and strikes. Clearly.

As for Tim's award, I'm glad he got it. But he wouldn't have gotten my vote.